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The annual "Should we switch to a 4-3 Base D?" Question

Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by lamontb:
I think they would need new interior lineman to go full time four man front. A lot of times i think he's so conservative b/c he's scared s**t less of letting Whitner cover anybody. Willis and Bowman spend a lot of time doing what a good safety should be able to do. Like Seattle can leave Wright or Irvin to be a spy/blitzer b/c Cam Chancellor can actually cover and shut down his opponent. He totally takes Vernon out of the game and that frees up a lot

Soooooooooooooo agree. And I can't blame him for that. Both Whitner and Reid (40 yards deep already) letting Baldwin get behind them for a 51 yard gain on a 9 second scramble is absolutely inexusable. Horrendous. I think this is the year we let Whitner walk and this is exactly why I want us to draft another FS...not SS. FS. We need speed, recognition, IQ and range back there. Once you have two Reid-like players back there, you can now free up Bowman and Willis from so much underneath coverage and allow them to play more down hill, blitz and roam sideline to sideline. It also allows Fangio to switch his focus from so many DB's to added pressure/pass rushers up at the LOS and allow the CB's to play more press. Reid free'd up Whitner to play in the box mostly last year. This year, if we get another Reid-like FS, he'll free Fangio up.

Exactly, and buck is dead on about Ward. nice prospect
  • buck
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Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by lamontb:
I think they would need new interior lineman to go full time four man front. A lot of times i think he's so conservative b/c he's scared s**t less of letting Whitner cover anybody. Willis and Bowman spend a lot of time doing what a good safety should be able to do. Like Seattle can leave Wright or Irvin to be a spy/blitzer b/c Cam Chancellor can actually cover and shut down his opponent. He totally takes Vernon out of the game and that frees up a lot

Soooooooooooooo agree. And I can't blame him for that. Both Whitner and Reid (40 yards deep already) letting Baldwin get behind them for a 51 yard gain on a 9 second scramble is absolutely inexusable. Horrendous. I think this is the year we let Whitner walk and this is exactly why I want us to draft another FS...not SS. FS. We need speed, recognition, IQ and range back there. Once you have two Reid-like players back there, you can now free up Bowman and Willis from so much underneath coverage and allow them to play more down hill, blitz and roam sideline to sideline. It also allows Fangio to switch his focus from so many DB's to added pressure/pass rushers up at the LOS and allow the CB's to play more press. Reid free'd up Whitner to play in the box mostly last year. This year, if we get another Reid-like FS, he'll free Fangio up.

I agree with the point, but do not overlook Jimmie Ward-a SS.

He had 31 passes defended over the past two years--10 picks and 21 passes broken up.
At the Senior Bowl, Ward was given the task of covering the slot receivers.

Only four cornerbacks in this year's class had more passes defended over the past two years.

In my estimation, Jimmie Ward is a hybrid cross between SS and FS.

That sounds ideal. Height/vertical/timing? I ask b/c in the NFL and in our scheme, he'll be going up against a ton of tall TE's and WR's from the slot esp. in the RZ/EZ.

You guys are the draft experts so I'll defer to you guys for the analysis! But it sure sounds like he has a nose for defending passes back there!

Senior Bowl has Jimmie Ward at 5' 10 3/4" and 191 pounds.

Hands are 9 1/2 inches

Arm length 31 1/2 inches

Wing Span 77 1/8 inches

edit: I am about as far from a draft expert as one can get.
[ Edited by buck on Feb 10, 2014 at 9:34 AM ]
Here's the annual answer "no".
Why does this come up every year? This team is setup and playing WELL as a 3-4...why fix what ain't broke?
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by 9erred:
I think this link does a good job of saying what I am trying to get across.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/glenn-dorsey-fits-san-francisco-49ers-defense-162600451--nfl.html

Grant Cohen might not be the best person to site.

As I understand it, the 49ers are using a 1-gag nose tackle and 1-gappers tend to be smaller than the traditional humongous nose tackles.

Given the number of passing teams that we have played in the last two years, we have used the nickel and dime a lot.

But, if you want to insist that we are running a 4-3, that is your prerogative.

As long as we agree, the 49er defense as now constituted is pretty damn good.

Agree the defense is great. I heard a guy or sportscaster ripping on a draft guru because they get too caught up in 5 technique, 3 technique, one gap. A good Defenisve lineman, aka Justin Smith, Dorsey, Brytant Young can be versatile and play anywhere along the line. The defesne is a base 3-4, but uses nickel and dime a lot, so it is a 4 man front. I hate to quote mike nolan but it is a hybrid defense.

Look at our counterparts up north, they are deplying several d linemen all that can rush the passer. Seems to me that if you can have a d lineman that can stop the run and rush the passer, bada bing baby.
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The Quiet Mastermind Behind the Niners’ D

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/01/17/vic-fangio-san-francisco-49ers-defensive-coordinator/
  • buck
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How Vic Fangio Maximizes the San Francisco 49ers Defense

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1878136-how-vic-fangio-maximizes-the-san-francisco-49ers-defense
  • buck
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two more articles about Fangio and his defense.

Breaking Down The San Francisco 49ers Defense
His defensive scheme is basically the same thing Dom Capers runs in Green Bay, which is the 3-4 zone blitz defense.
The two have had a long friendship and career with each other, as both started out as coaches under Jim Mora with the Stars of the USFL.

http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2011/10/14/2490879/breaking-down-the-san-francisco-49ers-defense

Why Vic Fangio’s 3-4 Defense Will Rattle Houston Texans QB Matt Schaub

http://ninerfans.com/new/san-francisco-49ers-why-vic-fangios-3-4-defense-will-rattle-houston-texans-qb-matt-schaub/
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by lamontb:
I think they would need new interior lineman to go full time four man front. A lot of times i think he's so conservative b/c he's scared s**t less of letting Whitner cover anybody. Willis and Bowman spend a lot of time doing what a good safety should be able to do. Like Seattle can leave Wright or Irvin to be a spy/blitzer b/c Cam Chancellor can actually cover and shut down his opponent. He totally takes Vernon out of the game and that frees up a lot

Soooooooooooooo agree. And I can't blame him for that. Both Whitner and Reid (40 yards deep already) letting Baldwin get behind them for a 51 yard gain on a 9 second scramble is absolutely inexusable. Horrendous. I think this is the year we let Whitner walk and this is exactly why I want us to draft another FS...not SS. FS. We need speed, recognition, IQ and range back there. Once you have two Reid-like players back there, you can now free up Bowman and Willis from so much underneath coverage and allow them to play more down hill, blitz and roam sideline to sideline. It also allows Fangio to switch his focus from so many DB's to added pressure/pass rushers up at the LOS and allow the CB's to play more press. Reid free'd up Whitner to play in the box mostly last year. This year, if we get another Reid-like FS, he'll free Fangio up.

I agree with the point, but do not overlook Jimmie Ward-a SS.

He had 31 passes defended over the past two years--10 picks and 21 passes broken up.
At the Senior Bowl, Ward was given the task of covering the slot receivers.

Only four cornerbacks in this year's class had more passes defended over the past two years.

In my estimation, Jimmie Ward is a hybrid cross between SS and FS.

That sounds ideal. Height/vertical/timing? I ask b/c in the NFL and in our scheme, he'll be going up against a ton of tall TE's and WR's from the slot esp. in the RZ/EZ.

You guys are the draft experts so I'll defer to you guys for the analysis! But it sure sounds like he has a nose for defending passes back there!

Senior Bowl has Jimmie Ward at 5' 10 3/4" and 191 pounds.

Hands are 9 1/2 inches

Arm length 31 1/2 inches

Wing Span 77 1/8 inches

edit: I am about as far from a draft expert as one can get.

Nice...trust me, I'm even farther from you!
Originally posted by buck:
How Vic Fangio Maximizes the San Francisco 49ers Defense

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1878136-how-vic-fangio-maximizes-the-san-francisco-49ers-defense

Thanks for posting that. I loved that clip of Billick and Fangio. Fangio illustrates how TJE was able to pick off a pass (vs HOU) when he diagrammed one specific version of the zone blitz with the NT dropping back to take away the hook/curl zone. I really wish we had more threads dedicated to the 49ers' consistently elite defense.
Since buck has posted a few articles on the 49ers defense. I might as well use this opportunity to post this article I found that mentions how the 49ers use pattern matching.

I know it's kind of old and can bring up some bad memories solely off the article title, but skip down to the paragraph that starts with, "The key to the 49ers' success in that game, as well as for much of the past two years, is rooted in a common misconception about their defense. It's often noted that the 49ers play almost entirely with two safeties deep,"

A good read to better understand what the 49ers try to do with their coverage scheme.
Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Here's the annual answer "no".

I second.

The 49ers have far and away the most talented group of starting LBs in the NFL. On the flip side they have only two really talented Defensive Linemen in Justin Smith and Ray McDonald.. Justin of course only has a year or two left in the NFL at his age. Why fix what isn't broken? The front-7 is easily top three in the NFL and arguably the best depending on your POV. It has been the secondary that has failed the 49ers defense the last three years... not their 3-4 front 7
good drops buck and th
Originally posted by lamontb:
good drops buck and th

No question!
  • buck
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Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by lamontb:
good drops buck and th

No question!

thanks.

just passing along things that I have found.