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Wide receivers ARE getting open!

Originally posted by 49erphan:
NCommand's lesson in 49er's offense got me to wondering if what he was talking about would explain why Randy Moss said something like that he understood the logic of how he was being used in the offense, but that it wasn't what he wanted to do. Did he mean that he felt like he was being used as one of the "decoys" that had to be covered quite a lot as the #2 receiver, with the play designed to go to Crabtree after Moss and VD had cleared the path underneath for Crabtree? Variations on that theme did result in a lot of important plays last year, including important touchdowns in the post-season. It seemed like Roman would give Moss a couple of shots deep down the field during a game to compensate for all the decoy work, but too often Kap just wasn't in sync with Moss on those plays.

Good point. Moss was no longer able to break free like he once did though most teams didn't realize it. Hence, Harbaugh only used him in cameos to draw coverage for the anointed receiver. This year, there is no designated decoy so JH just uses an extra TE along with Miller and tries to outmuscle everyone.

49er struggles in the red zone go back to this same limiting concept. Last year in the Seahawk game up there, the difference was dramatic. While the 49ers relied on Davis and Crabtree, Carroll put 4 wide outs on the field, spread out the defense and Wilson had an easy time finding a receiver, or running it in himself.

Carroll just seems to bug me personally but I have to admit, he has a much better handle on an NFL offense than does Harbaugh.
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Also everyone is making too many excuses for Kap. Talking about how the receivers need to be open at the right time.

There are some pass plays that are quick reads and the quarterback is suppose to get the ball out immediately, but these plays are few and far between. Most plays have progressions that you go through if your first read isn't there.

Kap has not done a good job at all this year of going through his progressions. The great quarterbacks have field vision and go through their reads. You see this from the likes of Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and our own great Montana who was the King of going through his progressions.

Kap has displayed cone vision a lot of times this year. If his first or second read on one side of the field isn't there, he has been panicking and either firing passes at 100 mph into blanketed coverage or running out of the pocket. He needs to work on his pocket awareness, step up in the pocket and go through his reads.

Let's stop putting all the blame on the wide receivers. The wideouts haven't been the best this year, but there have been a lot of times where they have gotten separation and Kap just isn't seeing them or hitting them. Kap needs to do a better job of going through his reads and that's the reality of the situation.

This is what I see too. His mental game is not what it was for some reason. I have wondered whether it is because he ran out of the pistol or shotgun so much last year.
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by frozen49er:
We have wide receivers? Huh?

I dont think so, I know we have two pretty good TEs in VD and Boldin.

I know you're joking, but you made me wonder if perhaps Boldin can play TE. Perhaps he could learn to block?

Why?

Because we love it when our #1 receiver stays in to block DE's and LB's.
Originally posted by bzborow1:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Niners99:
People forget our QB is still a kid who just completed his first full season worth of starts. The whole "leading us to the SB" thing makes you forget, but hes still learning. Hes going to miss open receivers, rely on only his favorites, and hesitate in the pocket. Be patient, hes going to be one of the very best in the business someday soon.

He needs to work on trusting his WR to be where the ball is going. He just doesnt have the reps with Williams or Baldwin yet. He doesnt trust them to be there. He trusts Boldin and Davis, which is why he tries to force balls their way over taking a chance at a potentially open Jon Baldwin.

He also needs to step up in the pocket and throw (or run). Hes gotten into a bad habit of running backwards toward the sidelines and throwing off his back leg. Maybe his foot issue is causing this, but he'll be fine.

Good post.

Kevin Lynch, the Chronicle beat writer, made an observation on CK last week that I have found to be true. Lynch said he has been watching CK's helmet angle on passing plays. What he observed is that Kaepernick's first looks is almost always to Boldin, if he is not open, the next thing is that his helmet tilts down as he looks at the OL to check the protection. By this time, he rarely looks another direction. If he does, it is to Davis. Hardly ever does he go back to the opposite side of the field from Boldin. So, with Baldwin or Williams almost always opposite Boldin, those guys rarely get a look from Kaepernick.

We can write all this off to lack of experience but what concerns me is that Kaepernick does not appear to have made any improvement in going through his progressions this season. Of course, in many cases, he is only given two options in the play design but when he does have another option, he doesn't appear to go there. Roman needs to give him more opportunities with multiple wide outs so he can learn. We won't go far with this passing offense come playoff time. We also can't expect the Crabtree will be the magic wand either. It would be a miracle if he comes back to 100% of what he was last season. Achilles just take more time than that to heal and allow adequate muscle build up. Gonna have to see some progress from the QB. "Young and inexperienced" only last so long.

I tend to agree, Kaepernick has a huge problem of locking onto receivers. What I find interesting this year over last is that Kaep seemed to be doing a better job with his read's last season. What's changed over 365 days? Perhaps defenses are taking away options he would normally go through last season and forcing him to look elsewhere with great success. There's been suggestion about pressure, but I find that interesting because the statistics show Colin is actually very good at recognizing a blitz and taking action; rather his problem is when he's forced to read a secondary coverage scheme.

What is apparent still is the talent. If Colin can learn to read defenses quicker/better then he has the talent to be one of the very best. Of course, isn't that what separates ordinary from great QB's to begin with?

I'm also not seeing the fire out there he had last season. He's playing nervous out there....

The fundamental problem does seem to be him making his reads. And as you said he was better last year. What is different this year. I have been looking at this since the second game and can't figure it out.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 49erWay:
Solid thread topic.

Of course the play calling is currently tailored to this very new QB's development.

Or do people expect Steve Young in his hall of fame form out of Kaepernick before he's even started 20 games?

To except that is sheer idiocy.

No, it was exactly the same for Alex Smith here as well. All of the "issues" people were complaining about here with Alex are identical to CK now...what's the common factor in all of this?

I agree to an extent, but you have to consider that Smith's ceiling was most likely reached. Kaepernick's hasn't been yet. He also hasn't reached a reasonable level of experience to warrant a change in play calling yet. It's quite possible that he may never reach his potential but haven't we seen enough to have faith that he will?

Based on the lineup we're putting on the field, Roman's M.O. of getting the ball into the hands of the best available playmaker is a reasonable strategy. As you and I already agreed upon, this means that the play will either result in something spectacular or an absolute dud. But do we really have any other options at this exact moment?

Sorry, should have clarified better...under Alex's tenure, many of the complaints were slow starts to games, not pulling the trigger, taking sacks, not seeing wide open receivers, poor 1st and 3rd down conversions, unimaginative route trees, needing to pass under 3 seconds, etc.

Basically, we're starting to see that much of this is coming down to the type of offense we installed here and coaching as being the common denominator under two very different QB's...but we are having the same results/concerns.

I certainly agreed with the QB switch given CK's upside and how his mobility fits better into this type of offense (if that targeted receiver is covered, CK can burn you better with his mobility and legs than Alex; he's also a better deeper threat and better at ad libbing). I certainly don't want to get into a QB debate b/c we all know each other's strengths/weaknesses like the back of our hands but to me, the type of offense we run and coaching of both QB's within it, appear to be identical at this juncture.

Yes, yes and yes.
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Originally posted by Niners99:
People forget our QB is still a kid who just completed his first full season worth of starts. The whole "leading us to the SB" thing makes you forget, but hes still learning. Hes going to miss open receivers, rely on only his favorites, and hesitate in the pocket. Be patient, hes going to be one of the very best in the business someday soon.

He needs to work on trusting his WR to be where the ball is going. He just doesnt have the reps with Williams or Baldwin yet. He doesnt trust them to be there. He trusts Boldin and Davis, which is why he tries to force balls their way over taking a chance at a potentially open Jon Baldwin.

He also needs to step up in the pocket and throw (or run). Hes gotten into a bad habit of running backwards toward the sidelines and throwing off his back leg. Maybe his foot issue is causing this, but he'll be fine.

This needs to be coached. They need to make Baldwin the first or second read more often and tell him to make the tight throws as this is essential to opening up the passing game. He's caught in a mind loop of only trusting Davis and Boldin and not taking chances on other receivers, which results in him never developing chemistry or trust in them. Around and around it goes. This is on Harbaugh. Coach him up on this...

It doesnt matter where they are positioned, its the fact that Kap doesnt trust those specific players. Its hard to argue with him, because outside Boldin and VD, our WR corps is pretty bad.
Originally posted by Buchy:
Another poster in the forum made a very good point on this, the receiver needs to be open at the right TIME otherwise it's pointless. The time they are open must match the play call and the QB drop back and read timing otherwise he's onto the next read, and that poster was right.

Doesn't matter if Baldwin is 10 yards open if it's 3 seconds after he's supposed to be, Kap might already have moved on to check other side of the field.

Play design might be an issue in this case....

This is precisely it. The QB starts making reads while he is dropping back. Kap still could be a little behind on the read progression but I would be willing to bet some is on the receiver too.

The thing that people aren't mentioning is that Boldin and Marlon Moore are really the only guys who were healthy and practicing their timing with Kap through pre-season, and hardly any of that was in a game.

I think we are seeing lack of timing, trust, experience, and talent as a combination.
[ Edited by TheRatMan13 on Oct 15, 2013 at 2:13 PM ]
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Originally posted by Buchy:
Another poster in the forum made a very good point on this, the receiver needs to be open at the right TIME otherwise it's pointless. The time they are open must match the play call and the QB drop back and read timing otherwise he's onto the next read, and that poster was right.

Doesn't matter if Baldwin is 10 yards open if it's 3 seconds after he's supposed to be, Kap might already have moved on to check other side of the field.

Play design might be an issue in this case....

Yea, I think you're referring to me >>>>>>>>

Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 AM
#10131

Geeze all you guys who keep saying "Kaepernick only makes one read and stares him down the whole play", just stop it. I can tell most of you have no idea what you're talking about. You saw Mayock point it out on a few occasions during ONE game and are simply running away with it. I can't count how many times I've read "well what good is getting all his weapons back gonna do if he only makes one read?"

Kaepernick does NOT make one read and throw the ball. Also, as someone previously mentioned, you do not look off the safety on every play. Otherwise, the defense would know that you're going to throw to the opposite side of the field that you're looking at every time. How effective would a "look off" be if the safety knows you're just looking him off?

A lot of reads are made BEFORE the ball is even snapped. You know where you're going to go with the ball based on the defense that you see. If you already know where you're supposed to go with the ball - if you already have the matchup that a particular play was designed for, what "progression" is there to go through?

Do you know how many time's I've seen guys like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady make huge throws without even checking to see if the guy was covered? That's because they knew before the snap, based on where the defense was going to go vs where the play was designed, exactly where the WR was going to be vs the defender. Kaepernick is not on their level on the pre-snap process but that doesn't mean he simply looks at a WR and throws him the ball. Of all the ridiculous reasons given for Kaepernick's struggles - and there have been many ridiculous ones - this one is at the very top.

Understand the what you're looking at before you go criticizing it. Different situations and play-calls call for different reactions by each player. Kaepernick goes through reads when he's supposed to. When he does, nobody is open at the right time. That's right, on some plays, there are certain times/windows that the WR should be open. It doesn't matter if Kyle Williams is open by 10 yards if he got open 2 seconds AFTER the play was designed to get him open. By that time, Kaepernick has probably moved on to - dare I say it - his second read and no longer sees Williams. It may also be that Williams is open by 10 yards because the defense, in their scheme, realizes that Williams missed his window and have released him to focus on where the QB is currently looking. They know he's not going to get a chance to go back to Williams or is not in a position to make an accurate throw towards him.

That's just one of soooo many different scenarios.


END POST


NCommand's post was also a GREAT breakdown of how our offense works. I think everyone needs to read his post and truly understand it. You'll then understand our play calling and a number of other things about our offense.

It makes sense and I will go back and watch coaches film on the past games to verify. It makes the most sense from what we're seeing. If this is true, this is truly horrific coaching.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Originally posted by Niners99:
People forget our QB is still a kid who just completed his first full season worth of starts. The whole "leading us to the SB" thing makes you forget, but hes still learning. Hes going to miss open receivers, rely on only his favorites, and hesitate in the pocket. Be patient, hes going to be one of the very best in the business someday soon.

He needs to work on trusting his WR to be where the ball is going. He just doesnt have the reps with Williams or Baldwin yet. He doesnt trust them to be there. He trusts Boldin and Davis, which is why he tries to force balls their way over taking a chance at a potentially open Jon Baldwin.

He also needs to step up in the pocket and throw (or run). Hes gotten into a bad habit of running backwards toward the sidelines and throwing off his back leg. Maybe his foot issue is causing this, but he'll be fine.

This needs to be coached. They need to make Baldwin the first or second read more often and tell him to make the tight throws as this is essential to opening up the passing game. He's caught in a mind loop of only trusting Davis and Boldin and not taking chances on other receivers, which results in him never developing chemistry or trust in them. Around and around it goes. This is on Harbaugh. Coach him up on this...

It doesnt matter where they are positioned, its the fact that Kap doesnt trust those specific players. Its hard to argue with him, because outside Boldin and VD, our WR corps is pretty bad.

We certainly could use better receivers but that hasn't bothered Brady in NE. Bad Bill has put in an offense that uses all the players, not just one or two.

Look back to last season. When Alex Smith was running the team, they spread the ball round quite well with Crabtree and the rest of a rather motley crew. When Kaepernick took over, the offense changed. CK began looking almost exclusively to Crabtree. Davis disappeared. Now Crabtree is gone but Boldin gets the same kind of attention. Davis has had more play but that is the sole extent of the passing plays.

It is going to be very interesting to see if the offense changes when Crabtree comes back. Will Boldin still be a target? How often? Will Davis be turned back into primarily a blocker?

I have seen little from Harbaugh that tells me he knows how to use more than one receiver at a time.
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Originally posted by Buchy:
Another poster in the forum made a very good point on this, the receiver needs to be open at the right TIME otherwise it's pointless. The time they are open must match the play call and the QB drop back and read timing otherwise he's onto the next read, and that poster was right.

Doesn't matter if Baldwin is 10 yards open if it's 3 seconds after he's supposed to be, Kap might already have moved on to check other side of the field.

Play design might be an issue in this case....

Yea, I think you're referring to me >>>>>>>>

Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 AM
#10131

Geeze all you guys who keep saying "Kaepernick only makes one read and stares him down the whole play", just stop it. I can tell most of you have no idea what you're talking about. You saw Mayock point it out on a few occasions during ONE game and are simply running away with it. I can't count how many times I've read "well what good is getting all his weapons back gonna do if he only makes one read?"

Kaepernick does NOT make one read and throw the ball. Also, as someone previously mentioned, you do not look off the safety on every play. Otherwise, the defense would know that you're going to throw to the opposite side of the field that you're looking at every time. How effective would a "look off" be if the safety knows you're just looking him off?

A lot of reads are made BEFORE the ball is even snapped. You know where you're going to go with the ball based on the defense that you see. If you already know where you're supposed to go with the ball - if you already have the matchup that a particular play was designed for, what "progression" is there to go through?

Do you know how many time's I've seen guys like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady make huge throws without even checking to see if the guy was covered? That's because they knew before the snap, based on where the defense was going to go vs where the play was designed, exactly where the WR was going to be vs the defender. Kaepernick is not on their level on the pre-snap process but that doesn't mean he simply looks at a WR and throws him the ball. Of all the ridiculous reasons given for Kaepernick's struggles - and there have been many ridiculous ones - this one is at the very top.

Understand the what you're looking at before you go criticizing it. Different situations and play-calls call for different reactions by each player. Kaepernick goes through reads when he's supposed to. When he does, nobody is open at the right time. That's right, on some plays, there are certain times/windows that the WR should be open. It doesn't matter if Kyle Williams is open by 10 yards if he got open 2 seconds AFTER the play was designed to get him open. By that time, Kaepernick has probably moved on to - dare I say it - his second read and no longer sees Williams. It may also be that Williams is open by 10 yards because the defense, in their scheme, realizes that Williams missed his window and have released him to focus on where the QB is currently looking. They know he's not going to get a chance to go back to Williams or is not in a position to make an accurate throw towards him.

That's just one of soooo many different scenarios.


END POST


NCommand's post was also a GREAT breakdown of how our offense works. I think everyone needs to read his post and truly understand it. You'll then understand our play calling and a number of other things about our offense.

It makes sense and I will go back and watch coaches film on the past games to verify. It makes the most sense from what we're seeing. If this is true, this is truly horrific coaching.

Please do and post here (and/or in the Roman thread)!

dj43, I love this term: the anointed receiver

Aside from many many plays designed for the annointed receiver and his supporting cast, there are your other proverbial anointed receiver plays...quick-hitters (but these are still pre-determined passing plays). These typically are made at the sidelines with Boldin (almost picked off last game) and your sprint-right (with no Bill Walsh option though) quick-outs to Miller or another in the flat. CK got picked off at the EZ on this very play merely b/c he hesitated a bit and the pass was tipped and subsequently intercepted. But still, like the Superbowl, you shrink the field to 1/3 the size and only have one receiving option (i.e. Crabtree or nothing). And like the Superbowl, the play was pre-determined so CK didn't even bother (or was coached) to look anywhere else bia progression reads (missing the wide open receivers in the middle and left of the EZ).
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 15, 2013 at 2:58 PM ]
Originally posted by dj43:
We certainly could use better receivers but that hasn't bothered Brady in NE. Bad Bill has put in an offense that uses all the players, not just one or two.

I have seen little from Harbaugh that tells me he knows how to use more than one receiver at a time.

Spot on!
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Maybe you guys aren't fully understanding the type of college offense we run here so I'll provide video for you: Review the play at 26:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_LHrltRaudY#t=1605

Here you will see CK in shortgun with Gore in the backfield next to him on the left. Davis is split out wide left at the X...Boldin goes in motion from right to left and Baldwin is split out wide right at the Z. Vance McDonald is in the slot on the right side of the ROT. Upon snap, Baldwin sprints straight ahead from the Z, Boldin sprints ahead from the X and both McDonald and VD cross. Boldin immediately draws a CB "and" a S, McDonald draws the MLB (deeper) across the field with him and VD is free (underneath) thanks to Boldin drawing the S. CK hits VD instantly in under 3 seconds for 12 yards on 3rd and 5. Good thing b/c Watt crushed CK just as he released the ball.

BUT, at no point were ANY of the receiving options (Boldin, McDonald nor Baldwin) a true receiving option. There is no "progression reading" here. Gore stays in to block Watt. He is NOT an outlet either. This play is all-or-nothing. If everyone does their job, it's a first down. If it's not, it's a sack or CK is off and scrambling to which, Boldin, McDonald, Baldwin and VD then, all have to ad lib. And we are a terrible ad lib team.

So again, this is not b/c CK is poor at progression reading or "is locking onto receivers." It's b/c there ARE no progression reads built into the offense. It's a college, anti-WCO. This isn't Roman dumbing down the offense b/c CK isn't getting the offense or is struggling right now either. THIS IS OUR OFFENSE. It has nothing to do with the WR's and their "lack of separation." In fact, if this play doesn't work, it means the non-receivers (aka decoys) didn't draw the defenders they were supposed to...or the Texans secondary played it perfectly.

If you're a DC all you need to do is play press coverage, jam the WR's at the LOS and throw a monkey-wrench into the entire play. In fact, if you guessed correctly who to cover (in this case, VD), all you have to do is jam/cover him tight and Watt has a sack. This is exactly how Seattle plays us. And many, MANY of our formations and alignments can be deciphered pre-snap (and you will see the DB or LB call alignments accordingly, pre-snap esp. b/c we take so long to snap the ball).

If you really want to have fun, before each offensive snap, write down pre-snap if you think it will be a run or pass. Later you will get really good at not only identifying whether it's a run or pass but WHO the pass will go to.

And this is EXACTLY what defenses have been doing all season long.

These types of plays (one primary receiving option) are run several times throughout the game by Roman on critical downs. Most of the time, they work beautifully. This is not the type of play where you can penalize Kap for being a one read QB since the play design calls for only one option to be looked to. NC, I agree with you when you say this is the anti-WCO. To me, a staple of the WCO are the passes to RBs as an extension of the run game. This does not exist in the current Roman offense.

Regarding these plays where only one read is needed to be made, I call it great formation/play design. Two traits of a great offensive play is being simple to execute, and effectiveness (it works). Roman runs these plays out of several formations with different variations. Sometimes the primary receiver runs an In route, sometimes a short out route. Either way, you can see it coming when it's 3rd and long with bunch WRs to one side of the formation. The bunching is to prevent the press and jam at the line of scrimmage. I did not see how SEA stopped this, but I don't doubt your observation regarding how SEA defended this play.


I don't think Kap is a one read QB, but I do think he stares down his read for too long before moving on to the next read. The game is fast for him right now and only experience will slow the game down. He can study his ass off in the film room and all it might do is make him think more once the ball is snapped.

About WRs not getting separation, from my amateur analysis, I do not think they are getting consistent separation. This includes Boldin. Baldwin is slow making cuts, Williams gets re-rerouted with a one arm shove. Moore, I don't even notice him on the field.

GB played zone too many times, while gearing up to play the run, and got torched.
SEA played press man and did it very well while bringing pressure with 4 rushers.
IND copied SEA and Roman continued to try throwing downfield to WRs who were not getting open. Kap also began showing a lot of impatience in the pocket in this game.
HOU did the same as SEA, but sent 5 pass rushers on nearly every pass play, forcing Kap to make quick decisions. Can't make too many reads when the pressure is coming.
ARI copied HOU.

Straight up, Kap is not good enough right now to consistently beat the blitz, but he is getting better. He is identifying the 1 on 1 matchup he likes, pre-snap, and is not hesitant in going there. This was evident on the VD touchdown with 2 minutes left (1st half) in the ARI game.
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We're 4-2 right now so imagine what happens when Kaep starts hitting his receivers between the numbers. I'm not worried. Crabs and Manningham will be back soon and discussions like these will seem like distant memories.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Originally posted by Buchy:
Another poster in the forum made a very good point on this, the receiver needs to be open at the right TIME otherwise it's pointless. The time they are open must match the play call and the QB drop back and read timing otherwise he's onto the next read, and that poster was right.

Doesn't matter if Baldwin is 10 yards open if it's 3 seconds after he's supposed to be, Kap might already have moved on to check other side of the field.

Play design might be an issue in this case....

Yea, I think you're referring to me >>>>>>>>

Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 AM
#10131

Geeze all you guys who keep saying "Kaepernick only makes one read and stares him down the whole play", just stop it. I can tell most of you have no idea what you're talking about. You saw Mayock point it out on a few occasions during ONE game and are simply running away with it. I can't count how many times I've read "well what good is getting all his weapons back gonna do if he only makes one read?"

Kaepernick does NOT make one read and throw the ball. Also, as someone previously mentioned, you do not look off the safety on every play. Otherwise, the defense would know that you're going to throw to the opposite side of the field that you're looking at every time. How effective would a "look off" be if the safety knows you're just looking him off?

A lot of reads are made BEFORE the ball is even snapped. You know where you're going to go with the ball based on the defense that you see. If you already know where you're supposed to go with the ball - if you already have the matchup that a particular play was designed for, what "progression" is there to go through?

Do you know how many time's I've seen guys like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady make huge throws without even checking to see if the guy was covered? That's because they knew before the snap, based on where the defense was going to go vs where the play was designed, exactly where the WR was going to be vs the defender. Kaepernick is not on their level on the pre-snap process but that doesn't mean he simply looks at a WR and throws him the ball. Of all the ridiculous reasons given for Kaepernick's struggles - and there have been many ridiculous ones - this one is at the very top.

Understand the what you're looking at before you go criticizing it. Different situations and play-calls call for different reactions by each player. Kaepernick goes through reads when he's supposed to. When he does, nobody is open at the right time. That's right, on some plays, there are certain times/windows that the WR should be open. It doesn't matter if Kyle Williams is open by 10 yards if he got open 2 seconds AFTER the play was designed to get him open. By that time, Kaepernick has probably moved on to - dare I say it - his second read and no longer sees Williams. It may also be that Williams is open by 10 yards because the defense, in their scheme, realizes that Williams missed his window and have released him to focus on where the QB is currently looking. They know he's not going to get a chance to go back to Williams or is not in a position to make an accurate throw towards him.

That's just one of soooo many different scenarios.


END POST


NCommand's post was also a GREAT breakdown of how our offense works. I think everyone needs to read his post and truly understand it. You'll then understand our play calling and a number of other things about our offense.

It makes sense and I will go back and watch coaches film on the past games to verify. It makes the most sense from what we're seeing. If this is true, this is truly horrific coaching.

Please do and post here (and/or in the Roman thread)!

dj43, I love this term: the anointed receiver

Aside from many many plays designed for the annointed receiver and his cast, there are your proverbial anointed receiver plays...quick-hitters (but these are still pre-determined passing plays). These typically are made at the sidelines with Boldin (almost picked off last game) and your sprint-right (with no Bill Walsh option though) quick-outs to Miller or another in the flat. CK got picked off at the EZ on this very play merely b/c he hesitated a bit and the pass was tipped and subsequently intercepted. But still, like the Superbowl, you shrink the field to 1/3 the size and only have one receiving option (i.e. Crabtree or nothing). And like the Superbowl, the play was pre determined so CK didn't even bother (or was coached) to look anywhere else (missing the wide open receivers in the middle and left of the field).
Yes, you may use it.

I believe CK's hesitation if a result of coaching, or lack of it.

I'm about finished ranting about Harbaugh for today. I will close with this: Harbaugh's rep as a quarterback whisperer is over blown. Yes, Johnson was good at San Diego but he did nothing beyond that level. Harbaugh was a good recruiter at Stanford to get the #2 QB prospect in the nation to come there (Lucky?), so he looked good, but the truth is, that Stanford team was a running team more than passing. Now Luck has shown he was good after Harbaugh left and is very good in the pros which leads me to conclude that Harbaugh was not all that instrumental in his career. Those who say Harbaugh resurrected Smith's career just were not paying attention. Smith became a very good QB the year before Harbaugh arrived. Harbaugh APPEARED to help him along the way but Smith is doing very well in KC without Harbaugh, thank you very much. So before we all bow down to the Throne of Harbaugh, let's see if he can use some of the other weapons he has on this team that are not named Gore or The Anointed One.

With that, I'm off to a late round of golf.
Originally posted by thl408:
These types of plays (one primary receiving option) are run several times throughout the game by Roman on critical downs. Most of the time, they work beautifully. This is not the type of play where you can penalize Kap for being a one read QB since the play design calls for only one option to be looked to. NC, I agree with you when you say this is the anti-WCO. To me, a staple of the WCO are the passes to RBs as an extension of the run game. This does not exist in the current Roman offense.

Regarding these plays where only one read is needed to be made, I call it great formation/play design. Two traits of a great offensive play is being simple to execute, and effectiveness (it works). Roman runs these plays out of several formations with different variations. Sometimes the primary receiver runs an In route, sometimes a short out route. Either way, you can see it coming when it's 3rd and long with bunch WRs to one side of the formation. The bunching is to prevent the press and jam at the line of scrimmage. I did not see how SEA stopped this, but I don't doubt your observation regarding how SEA defended this play.


I don't think Kap is a one read QB, but I do think he stares down his read for too long before moving on to the next read. The game is fast for him right now and only experience will slow the game down. He can study his ass off in the film room and all it might do is make him think more once the ball is snapped.

About WRs not getting separation, from my amateur analysis, I do not think they are getting consistent separation. This includes Boldin. Baldwin is slow making cuts, Williams gets re-rerouted with a one arm shove. Moore, I don't even notice him on the field.

GB played zone too many times, while gearing up to play the run, and got torched.
SEA played press man and did it very well while bringing pressure with 4 rushers.
IND copied SEA and Roman continued to try throwing downfield to WRs who were not getting open. Kap also began showing a lot of impatience in the pocket in this game.
HOU did the same as SEA, but sent 5 pass rushers on nearly every pass play, forcing Kap to make quick decisions. Can't make too many reads when the pressure is coming.
ARI copied HOU.

Straight up, Kap is not good enough right now to consistently beat the blitz, but he is getting better. He is identifying the 1 on 1 matchup he likes, pre-snap, and is not hesitant in going there. This was evident on the VD touchdown with 2 minutes left (1st half) in the ARI game.

Very nice post! I'm really glad you brought up 3rd downs for a couple reasons. First. you are spot on in that my observations are that that is exactly when we run the annointed receiver routes the most as well (as referenced in the video I provided). And two, we are in 3rd and longs a ton (so it appears). But it's not b/c of failure on 2nd down. It's d/t an inability to "scheme" positive yards on 1st down. Our first down production has been horrendous under both QB's. If we get 4+ yards on first down, that is critically successful for our offense b/c we can then run or pass on 2nd down (or even fail) and still be in a manageable 3rd down. Most importantly, it takes away from the predictability for the defense. How often are we in 2nd and 15 or 2nd and 10? A lot...this clearly was an issue under Alex's tenure as well (although the media can still only focus on the 1 for 13 on 3rd downs in the NFCCG...it was the lack of production on first down that played right into the Giants pass rush/strength on 2nd and 3rd downs). Rhythm? Our offense has seemed "spotty" in rhythm since day 1...when were we flowing on offense in both phases of the game in tandem? It seems fragmented, like how the game plans are derived.

Do you think there are hot reads in this offense? B/c CK is often times in the shotgun (gives him that extra second) it seems to me that many of the annointed receiver pre-determined passing plays are designed/schemed to hit that pass in under 3 seconds decreasing the likelihood of a sack.

I do agree that when Roman schemes properly, college-offense or not, it's hard to stop. In fact, one of the commentators said the same thing on one of these plays. How do you stop it..it's like a screen pass...you have WR's already down field blocking as the underneath WR catches it for RAC (think we got a 1st and goal at the 1 or even a TD?).

Now, in my ideal world, we'd run a WCO primarly and have many of these annointed receiver passing plays built into it esp. on 3rd downs. This would get EVERYONE involved and players such as Gore, Hunter and McDonald would be better utilized in both the passing and run game and most importantly, it would help CK out a ton b/c he'd always have a passing outlet. We have far too much talent being wasted here IMHO.
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