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Wide receivers ARE getting open!

Originally posted by frozen49er:
We have wide receivers? Huh?

I dont think so, I know we have two pretty good TEs in VD and Boldin.
Originally posted by susweel:
Funny how all the TV announcers and experts are saying the WRs are not getting open but the internet couch potatoes seem to disagree.

Well actually a lot of analysts have been talking about how Kap isn't seeing his receivers or trusting anyone other than Boldin and Davis. They have been talking about it on Playbook that Kap is missing guys that are running open. People need to realize that it's a two way street. Receivers may not be getting open consistently enough, but they are getting open on plays and Kap isn't seeing or hitting them.
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by frozen49er:
We have wide receivers? Huh?

I dont think so, I know we have two pretty good TEs in VD and Boldin.

I know you're joking, but you made me wonder if perhaps Boldin can play TE. Perhaps he could learn to block?
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 49erWay:
Solid thread topic.

Of course the play calling is currently tailored to this very new QB's development.

Or do people expect Steve Young in his hall of fame form out of Kaepernick before he's even started 20 games?

To except that is sheer idiocy.

No, it was exactly the same for Alex Smith here as well. All of the "issues" people were complaining about here with Alex are identical to CK now...what's the common factor in all of this?

I agree to an extent, but you have to consider that Smith's ceiling was most likely reached. Kaepernick's hasn't been yet. He also hasn't reached a reasonable level of experience to warrant a change in play calling yet. It's quite possible that he may never reach his potential but haven't we seen enough to have faith that he will?

Based on the lineup we're putting on the field, Roman's M.O. of getting the ball into the hands of the best available playmaker is a reasonable strategy. As you and I already agreed upon, this means that the play will either result in something spectacular or an absolute dud. But do we really have any other options at this exact moment?

Sorry, should have clarified better...under Alex's tenure, many of the complaints were slow starts to games, not pulling the trigger, taking sacks, not seeing wide open receivers, poor 1st and 3rd down conversions, unimaginative route trees, needing to pass under 3 seconds, etc.

Basically, we're starting to see that much of this is coming down to the type of offense we installed here and coaching as being the common denominator under two very different QB's...but we are having the same results/concerns.

I certainly agreed with the QB switch given CK's upside and how his mobility fits better into this type of offense (if that targeted receiver is covered, CK can burn you better with his mobility and legs than Alex; he's also a better deeper threat and better at ad libbing). I certainly don't want to get into a QB debate b/c we all know each other's strengths/weaknesses like the back of our hands but to me, the type of offense we run and coaching of both QB's within it, appear to be identical at this juncture.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Also everyone is making too many excuses for Kap. Talking about how the receivers need to be open at the right time.

There are some pass plays that are quick reads and the quarterback is suppose to get the ball out immediately, but these plays are few and far between. Most plays have progressions that you go through if your first read isn't there.

Kap has not done a good job at all this year of going through his progressions. The great quarterbacks have field vision and go through their reads. You see this from the likes of Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and our own great Montana who was the King of going through his progressions.

Kap has displayed cone vision a lot of times this year. If his first or second read on one side of the field isn't there, he has been panicking and either firing passes at 100 mph into blanketed coverage or running out of the pocket. He needs to work on his pocket awareness, step up in the pocket and go through his reads.

Let's stop putting all the blame on the wide receivers. The wideouts haven't been the best this year, but there have been a lot of times where they have gotten separation and Kap just isn't seeing them or hitting them. Kap needs to do a better job of going through his reads and that's the reality of the situation.

I agree with all of this. However, we must also realize that he is still an inexperienced QB. Most new QB's are usually assigned half the field or a single read.

At the same time, he isn't playing poorly. He just needs to get off of Vernon and Anquan. I think the big game 1 by Anquan hurt Colin's development than it helped.

Our WR's have always been fine. 2 top level targets is ideal for any team. Our QB's have had issues with finding the 3rd target.

Yeah I agree it is partially the play calling. People need to realize though, it is not all on the receivers. The wideouts are getting open at times.
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by susweel:
Funny how all the TV announcers and experts are saying the WRs are not getting open but the internet couch potatoes seem to disagree.

Well actually a lot of analysts have been talking about how Kap isn't seeing his receivers or trusting anyone other than Boldin and Davis. They have been talking about it on Playbook that Kap is missing guys that are running open. People need to realize that it's a two way street. Receivers may not be getting open consistently enough, but they are getting open on plays and Kap isn't seeing or hitting them.

This is what Baalke was irrate about as well up in the sky box...the deeper question is, was his primary target covered and if so, is he being coached to take perhaps, a low % throw or use his legs instead, throw it away or aim for higher % plays?
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Niners99:
People forget our QB is still a kid who just completed his first full season worth of starts. The whole "leading us to the SB" thing makes you forget, but hes still learning. Hes going to miss open receivers, rely on only his favorites, and hesitate in the pocket. Be patient, hes going to be one of the very best in the business someday soon.

He needs to work on trusting his WR to be where the ball is going. He just doesnt have the reps with Williams or Baldwin yet. He doesnt trust them to be there. He trusts Boldin and Davis, which is why he tries to force balls their way over taking a chance at a potentially open Jon Baldwin.

He also needs to step up in the pocket and throw (or run). Hes gotten into a bad habit of running backwards toward the sidelines and throwing off his back leg. Maybe his foot issue is causing this, but he'll be fine.

Good post.

Kevin Lynch, the Chronicle beat writer, made an observation on CK last week that I have found to be true. Lynch said he has been watching CK's helmet angle on passing plays. What he observed is that Kaepernick's first looks is almost always to Boldin, if he is not open, the next thing is that his helmet tilts down as he looks at the OL to check the protection. By this time, he rarely looks another direction. If he does, it is to Davis. Hardly ever does he go back to the opposite side of the field from Boldin. So, with Baldwin or Williams almost always opposite Boldin, those guys rarely get a look from Kaepernick.

We can write all this off to lack of experience but what concerns me is that Kaepernick does not appear to have made any improvement in going through his progressions this season. Of course, in many cases, he is only given two options in the play design but when he does have another option, he doesn't appear to go there. Roman needs to give him more opportunities with multiple wide outs so he can learn. We won't go far with this passing offense come playoff time. We also can't expect the Crabtree will be the magic wand either. It would be a miracle if he comes back to 100% of what he was last season. Achilles just take more time than that to heal and allow adequate muscle build up. Gonna have to see some progress from the QB. "Young and inexperienced" only last so long.


Kevin Lynch, LOL.

It's true that Kap sometimes doesn't go through all his progressions, but that's normal for someone this early in his career. The game slows down with more experience. But Kap has been proving to be more patient in the pocket recently, which is a sign of improvement, unlike what you're saying above. Also, many times when protection breaks down Kap runs in a direction that makes it difficult for him to find a WR who got open on the other side of the field. He'll learn to better move in the pocket; I don't see anything to panic about. He made some pretty impressive throws yesterday, and he'll continue to get better as the season progresses.

In any case, I don't understand why we needed a separate thread for this. We've been hashing it out ad nauseum in the Kaepernick thread.

We are watching somewhat different games then...

Kevin Lynch is spot on. Kap's pocket awareness and going through his reads hasn't been great this year.
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Well actually a lot of analysts have been talking about how Kap isn't seeing his receivers or trusting anyone other than Boldin and Davis. They have been talking about it on Playbook that Kap is missing guys that are running open. People need to realize that it's a two way street. Receivers may not be getting open consistently enough, but they are getting open on plays and Kap isn't seeing or hitting them.

every qb misses open receivers. funny how when crabs and mario are playing, kap plays a lot better. its pretty obvious the answer is that we don't have legit wideouts right now
It took Steve Young several years with the 9ers to see open receivers other than Rice.

And he was already a veteran.

So our receivers suck.

Right.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by susweel:
Funny how all the TV announcers and experts are saying the WRs are not getting open but the internet couch potatoes seem to disagree.

Well actually a lot of analysts have been talking about how Kap isn't seeing his receivers or trusting anyone other than Boldin and Davis. They have been talking about it on Playbook that Kap is missing guys that are running open. People need to realize that it's a two way street. Receivers may not be getting open consistently enough, but they are getting open on plays and Kap isn't seeing or hitting them.

This is what Baalke was irrate about as well up in the sky box...the deeper question is, was his primary target covered and if so, is he being coached to take perhaps, a low % throw or use his legs instead, throw it away or aim for higher % plays?

Yeah I think it's also partially the way he's being coached and the play calling. It's a combination of things for why the passing game is struggling. Receivers aren't getting consistent separation (but not nearly as bad as everyone seems to think), the play calling and coaching, the pass protection, and poor play by Kap. Vernon Davis is the only one truly balling out in the passing game.

On a side note, I haven't seen Kap throw with any touch in quite a while. I know he is capable, (see that beautiful long touch pass to Kyle Williams vs. Chicago last year) but he's been bulleting everything this year. He's firing all his passes into receivers, even when they're like 5 yards away. He's got to work on that along with pocket awarenes and going through his reads.
Originally posted by 49erWay:
It took Steve Young several years with the 9ers to see open receivers other than Rice.

And he was already a veteran.

So our receivers suck.

Right.

So I guess the chemistry/production Kap had with Crabs & Moss & Delanie & Mario is just a fluke. It doesn't mean they're fast and can get separation. It means that Kap has regressed and doesn't know how to make more than one read.

Right.
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Well actually a lot of analysts have been talking about how Kap isn't seeing his receivers or trusting anyone other than Boldin and Davis. They have been talking about it on Playbook that Kap is missing guys that are running open. People need to realize that it's a two way street. Receivers may not be getting open consistently enough, but they are getting open on plays and Kap isn't seeing or hitting them.

every qb misses open receivers. funny how when crabs and mario are playing, kap plays a lot better. its pretty obvious the answer is that we don't have legit wideouts right now

Well yeah, but he's been missing guys quite often this year. He's not trusting anyone else, even when they have good separation.
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Well actually a lot of analysts have been talking about how Kap isn't seeing his receivers or trusting anyone other than Boldin and Davis. They have been talking about it on Playbook that Kap is missing guys that are running open. People need to realize that it's a two way street. Receivers may not be getting open consistently enough, but they are getting open on plays and Kap isn't seeing or hitting them.

every qb misses open receivers. funny how when crabs and mario are playing, kap plays a lot better. its pretty obvious the answer is that we don't have legit wideouts right now

Last year when Kaep scrambled Crabs was good at changing his route to get open. You know who else is good at that? Boldin. But Boldin is getting doubled weekly. He sometimes had that connection with Manningham as well. I really think once Crabs and Manningham is back, Kaep could let loose just a little.

But the BIG questions is how will Manningham and Crabs bring each week after coming off major injuries.
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Well actually a lot of analysts have been talking about how Kap isn't seeing his receivers or trusting anyone other than Boldin and Davis. They have been talking about it on Playbook that Kap is missing guys that are running open. People need to realize that it's a two way street. Receivers may not be getting open consistently enough, but they are getting open on plays and Kap isn't seeing or hitting them.

every qb misses open receivers. funny how when crabs and mario are playing, kap plays a lot better. its pretty obvious the answer is that we don't have legit wideouts right now

Well yeah, but he's been missing guys quite often this year. He's not trusting anyone else, even when they have good separation.

I'll give you that. I don't think he has trust in Kyle & Baldwin. That's different than just not knowing how to go through his read progressions.

Oh and one other thing. The pick last game in the endzone was a tipped pass that woulda been a TD to Bruce Miller, and there was another tipped pass that was intended for Baldwin that woulda been a TD as well. So sometimes s**t just happens.
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Yeah I think it's also partially the way he's being coached and the play calling. It's a combination of things for why the passing game is struggling. Receivers aren't getting consistent separation (but not nearly as bad as everyone seems to think), the play calling and coaching, the pass protection, and poor play by Kap. Vernon Davis is the only one truly balling out in the passing game.

On a side note, I haven't seen Kap throw with any touch in quite a while. I know he is capable, (see that beautiful long touch pass to Kyle Williams vs. Chicago last year) but he's been bulleting everything this year. He's firing all his passes into receivers, even when they're like 5 yards away. He's got to work on that along with pocket awarenes and going through his reads.

Agreed on all accounts...his QB mechanics certainly are not grounded in WCO principles timed with WR routes. LOL I've been noting his foot work and other issues myself in the CK thread. But that's coaching within the type of offense we run (still the root cause IMHO).
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