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Wide receivers ARE getting open!

Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by susweel:
Funny how all the TV announcers and experts are saying the WRs are not getting open but the internet couch potatoes seem to disagree.

Bringing up TV announcers does NOT help make your point.

why not ? Dudes like Phil Sims know what they are talking about.
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Niners99:
People forget our QB is still a kid who just completed his first full season worth of starts. The whole "leading us to the SB" thing makes you forget, but hes still learning. Hes going to miss open receivers, rely on only his favorites, and hesitate in the pocket. Be patient, hes going to be one of the very best in the business someday soon.

He needs to work on trusting his WR to be where the ball is going. He just doesnt have the reps with Williams or Baldwin yet. He doesnt trust them to be there. He trusts Boldin and Davis, which is why he tries to force balls their way over taking a chance at a potentially open Jon Baldwin.

He also needs to step up in the pocket and throw (or run). Hes gotten into a bad habit of running backwards toward the sidelines and throwing off his back leg. Maybe his foot issue is causing this, but he'll be fine.

Good post.

Kevin Lynch, the Chronicle beat writer, made an observation on CK last week that I have found to be true. Lynch said he has been watching CK's helmet angle on passing plays. What he observed is that Kaepernick's first looks is almost always to Boldin, if he is not open, the next thing is that his helmet tilts down as he looks at the OL to check the protection. By this time, he rarely looks another direction. If he does, it is to Davis. Hardly ever does he go back to the opposite side of the field from Boldin. So, with Baldwin or Williams almost always opposite Boldin, those guys rarely get a look from Kaepernick.

We can write all this off to lack of experience but what concerns me is that Kaepernick does not appear to have made any improvement in going through his progressions this season. Of course, in many cases, he is only given two options in the play design but when he does have another option, he doesn't appear to go there. Roman needs to give him more opportunities with multiple wide outs so he can learn. We won't go far with this passing offense come playoff time. We also can't expect the Crabtree will be the magic wand either. It would be a miracle if he comes back to 100% of what he was last season. Achilles just take more time than that to heal and allow adequate muscle build up. Gonna have to see some progress from the QB. "Young and inexperienced" only last so long.


Kevin Lynch, LOL.

It's true that Kap sometimes doesn't go through all his progressions, but that's normal for someone this early in his career. The game slows down with more experience. But Kap has been proving to be more patient in the pocket recently, which is a sign of improvement, unlike what you're saying above. Also, many times when protection breaks down Kap runs in a direction that makes it difficult for him to find a WR who got open on the other side of the field. He'll learn to better move in the pocket; I don't see anything to panic about. He made some pretty impressive throws yesterday, and he'll continue to get better as the season progresses.

In any case, I don't understand why we needed a separate thread for this. We've been hashing it out ad nauseum in the Kaepernick thread.

We are watching somewhat different games then...
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Our receiving core leaves a lot to be desired but let us not trash Boldin because he is slow. Fact is he is very productive and one of the most productive all time. Now for the rest of them I concur. They need to step up

Iwasnt trashing him, but being slow makes the qb throw into a tighter window so Kap has been good with that
Originally posted by dj43:
When have we thrown a ball to him that is even remotely catchable.

ANSWER: None.

He made a sensational catch two weeks ago on a ball that was thrown so far outside that he had no chance to get his feet down. The thing that many are overlooking is that he had 41 catches over the past two years on balls thrown his way by some of the worst QBs in recent history. So let's not go down that road that says he has no skills. He has plenty of skills. He just is being used as a decoy and blockers as NC noted previously. The problem is that our "wonderful, creative offensive coaches" still think they are at Stanford. This is the NFL which stands for Not For Long if you think you can run a college offense forever in this league. Just look at how quickly the league trumped the read/option.

Thank you! You get it!!! 11 combined "game plan" receptions for Boldin/VD. 1 for everyone else. It's by DESIGN people...everyone is so focused on surface-level "issues" that they aren't seeing the foundation. Everyone is doing exactly what they are supposed to including CK but if one link breaks in this chain, the play is blown up.
  • Jcool
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Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by susweel:
Funny how all the TV announcers and experts are saying the WRs are not getting open but the internet couch potatoes seem to disagree.

Bringing up TV announcers does NOT help make your point.

why not ? Dudes like Phil Sims know what they are talking about.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Yeah, that is pretty funny. At the end of the day, most of the time these TV experts spit out more generalizations and cliches than anyone else. Kaepernick is struggling, "OMG ONE REED QB HE IS TEH DUMBS!".
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by dj43:
When have we thrown a ball to him that is even remotely catchable.

ANSWER: None.

He made a sensational catch two weeks ago on a ball that was thrown so far outside that he had no chance to get his feet down. The thing that many are overlooking is that he had 41 catches over the past two years on balls thrown his way by some of the worst QBs in recent history. So let's not go down that road that says he has no skills. He has plenty of skills. He just is being used as a decoy and blockers as NC noted previously. The problem is that our "wonderful, creative offensive coaches" still think they are at Stanford. This is the NFL which stands for Not For Long if you think you can run a college offense forever in this league. Just look at how quickly the league trumped the read/option.

Thank you! You get it!!! 11 combined "game plan" receptions for Boldin/VD. 1 for everyone else. It's by DESIGN people...everyone is so focused on surface-level "issues" that they aren't seeing the foundation. Everyone is doing exactly what they are supposed to including CK but if one link breaks in this chain, the play is blown up.
This is why Pete Carroll so smugly said after they smashed us that "they got nothing done".
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
I hope that is mostly for the regular season.

LOL...hasn't been for three years. It is our offense. Period. In fact, Alex Smith even brought a few of these plays to KC and added a slight variation to them but they are paying off in KC esp. on 3rd and longs.

Yeah but KC offense has sucked also.
srs tho, we gotta dump our WR coach.
Originally posted by Buchy:
Another poster in the forum made a very good point on this, the receiver needs to be open at the right TIME otherwise it's pointless. The time they are open must match the play call and the QB drop back and read timing otherwise he's onto the next read, and that poster was right.

Doesn't matter if Baldwin is 10 yards open if it's 3 seconds after he's supposed to be, Kap might already have moved on to check other side of the field.

Play design might be an issue in this case....

Yea, I think you're referring to me >>>>>>>>

Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 AM
#10131

Geeze all you guys who keep saying "Kaepernick only makes one read and stares him down the whole play", just stop it. I can tell most of you have no idea what you're talking about. You saw Mayock point it out on a few occasions during ONE game and are simply running away with it. I can't count how many times I've read "well what good is getting all his weapons back gonna do if he only makes one read?"

Kaepernick does NOT make one read and throw the ball. Also, as someone previously mentioned, you do not look off the safety on every play. Otherwise, the defense would know that you're going to throw to the opposite side of the field that you're looking at every time. How effective would a "look off" be if the safety knows you're just looking him off?

A lot of reads are made BEFORE the ball is even snapped. You know where you're going to go with the ball based on the defense that you see. If you already know where you're supposed to go with the ball - if you already have the matchup that a particular play was designed for, what "progression" is there to go through?

Do you know how many time's I've seen guys like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady make huge throws without even checking to see if the guy was covered? That's because they knew before the snap, based on where the defense was going to go vs where the play was designed, exactly where the WR was going to be vs the defender. Kaepernick is not on their level on the pre-snap process but that doesn't mean he simply looks at a WR and throws him the ball. Of all the ridiculous reasons given for Kaepernick's struggles - and there have been many ridiculous ones - this one is at the very top.

Understand the what you're looking at before you go criticizing it. Different situations and play-calls call for different reactions by each player. Kaepernick goes through reads when he's supposed to. When he does, nobody is open at the right time. That's right, on some plays, there are certain times/windows that the WR should be open. It doesn't matter if Kyle Williams is open by 10 yards if he got open 2 seconds AFTER the play was designed to get him open. By that time, Kaepernick has probably moved on to - dare I say it - his second read and no longer sees Williams. It may also be that Williams is open by 10 yards because the defense, in their scheme, realizes that Williams missed his window and have released him to focus on where the QB is currently looking. They know he's not going to get a chance to go back to Williams or is not in a position to make an accurate throw towards him.

That's just one of soooo many different scenarios.


END POST


NCommand's post was also a GREAT breakdown of how our offense works. I think everyone needs to read his post and truly understand it. You'll then understand our play calling and a number of other things about our offense.
Originally posted by ChazBoner:
meanwhile in New England, Austin Collie is making critical catches on 4th down.

Was that sarcasm?
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Originally posted by Buchy:
Another poster in the forum made a very good point on this, the receiver needs to be open at the right TIME otherwise it's pointless. The time they are open must match the play call and the QB drop back and read timing otherwise he's onto the next read, and that poster was right.

Doesn't matter if Baldwin is 10 yards open if it's 3 seconds after he's supposed to be, Kap might already have moved on to check other side of the field.

Play design might be an issue in this case....

Yea, I think you're referring to me >>>>>>>>

Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 AM
#10131

Geeze all you guys who keep saying "Kaepernick only makes one read and stares him down the whole play", just stop it. I can tell most of you have no idea what you're talking about. You saw Mayock point it out on a few occasions during ONE game and are simply running away with it. I can't count how many times I've read "well what good is getting all his weapons back gonna do if he only makes one read?"

Kaepernick does NOT make one read and throw the ball. Also, as someone previously mentioned, you do not look off the safety on every play. Otherwise, the defense would know that you're going to throw to the opposite side of the field that you're looking at every time. How effective would a "look off" be if the safety knows you're just looking him off?

A lot of reads are made BEFORE the ball is even snapped. You know where you're going to go with the ball based on the defense that you see. If you already know where you're supposed to go with the ball - if you already have the matchup that a particular play was designed for, what "progression" is there to go through?

Do you know how many time's I've seen guys like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady make huge throws without even checking to see if the guy was covered? That's because they knew before the snap, based on where the defense was going to go vs where the play was designed, exactly where the WR was going to be vs the defender. Kaepernick is not on their level on the pre-snap process but that doesn't mean he simply looks at a WR and throws him the ball. Of all the ridiculous reasons given for Kaepernick's struggles - and there have been many ridiculous ones - this one is at the very top.

Understand the what you're looking at before you go criticizing it. Different situations and play-calls call for different reactions by each player. Kaepernick goes through reads when he's supposed to. When he does, nobody is open at the right time. That's right, on some plays, there are certain times/windows that the WR should be open. It doesn't matter if Kyle Williams is open by 10 yards if he got open 2 seconds AFTER the play was designed to get him open. By that time, Kaepernick has probably moved on to - dare I say it - his second read and no longer sees Williams. It may also be that Williams is open by 10 yards because the defense, in their scheme, realizes that Williams missed his window and have released him to focus on where the QB is currently looking. They know he's not going to get a chance to go back to Williams or is not in a position to make an accurate throw towards him.

That's just one of soooo many different scenarios.


END POST


NCommand's post was also a GREAT breakdown of how our offense works. I think everyone needs to read his post and truly understand it. You'll then understand our play calling and a number of other things about our offense.


Great post above.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Thank you! You get it!!! 11 combined "game plan" receptions for Boldin/VD. 1 for everyone else. It's by DESIGN people...everyone is so focused on surface-level "issues" that they aren't seeing the foundation. Everyone is doing exactly what they are supposed to including CK but if one link breaks in this chain, the play is blown up.

You cannot tell me everyone is doing exactly what theyre supposed to be doing.

I'm finding it hard to believe some of you actually think the gameplan/calls only have one targetable reciever.

Theyre are multiple option, and coverage dictates target.

Kaep is missing reads. Plain and simple.

This is not by design and if it is Baalkes going to be firing someone soon because he was not very happy when Kaep was missing wide open receiver againt Houston.
Originally posted by NinerG94:
Originally posted by 49ersHeroine:
Kali49er, great post. I agree with you all the way. Me and my friends have been talking about this. He's been open quite a bit since the rams game. Kap is a lock on one wide out QB. 1st it was Crabs, then Boldin now most logical VD. As much as Vernon is my favorite Niner. We're going to have to start getting the ball to Baldwin especially with VD and Boldin double/triple teamed. Baldwin 6'4 235 pounds fast with a 42 freakin inch vertical and he gets single coverage every snap. Dude Kaps needs to get it together!

I don't get the love for measurables around here. Baldwin gets zero separation. You don't just throw up a lob every time you get single coverage. Baldwin may have a 42" vertical but he has zero ball skills. NONE. You act like its comparable to throwing one up to Julio or Calvin. Those are the type of WR's you throw one up to in single coverage. Those guys you can count on to make a play. Baldwin has shown nothing. He hasn't even shown he can make uncontested catches and you want to start throwing up jump balls to him? Aside from his size and slight ability to get off press coverage he's worthless. As soon as Manningham is healthy, Baldwin is heading straight to the bench.

This is a ridiculous assertion with absolutely no accuracy to it.
Originally posted by eonblue:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Thank you! You get it!!! 11 combined "game plan" receptions for Boldin/VD. 1 for everyone else. It's by DESIGN people...everyone is so focused on surface-level "issues" that they aren't seeing the foundation. Everyone is doing exactly what they are supposed to including CK but if one link breaks in this chain, the play is blown up.

You cannot tell me everyone is doing exactly what theyre supposed to be doing.

I'm finding it hard to believe some of you actually think the gameplan/calls only have one targetable reciever.

Theyre are multiple option, and coverage dictates target.

Kaep is missing reads. Plain and simple.

This is not by design and if it is Baalkes going to be firing someone soon because he was not very happy when Kaep was missing wide open receiver againt Houston.

Yes he can because he's in team meetings.