There are 97 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Wide receivers ARE getting open!

Kaep is still a one read QB right now, kid is still learning. It's to be expected.
Kaep is still a one read QB right now, kid is still learning. It's to be expected.
I feel like Romans offense is a bad fit for Kap, especially with this depleated WR core. I read that Roman calls in two plays to Kap. If thats true, hes got to process the info...twice, readthe d, call the play, possibly audible, the rest of the O has to react, and then he has to execute a very rigid play call to one or maybe two reads. This was a great fit for Alex Smiths rigid mindset. But Kap Iis a street baller. Hes a gun slinger. Hes being the good Soldier and working his butt off, but to me this is a round peg in a square hole sceanario

Kap would be much better in a wide open, WCO offense imo. Hes a rare talent who can make something out of nothing. Like a Montana, Favre, Fran Tarkenton, Randle Cunningham. I believe this offense is clogging the drain. Give the horse his head and let him run. Direct him, dont suffocate him. Yes, he will make mistakes, but his growth curve will be much faster IMHO..
Originally posted by Butter:
I feel like Romans offense is a bad fit for Kap, especially with this depleated WR core. I read that Roman calls in two plays to Kap. If thats true, hes got to process the info...twice, readthe d, call the play, possibly audible, the rest of the O has to react, and then he has to execute a very rigid play call to one or maybe two reads. This was a great fit for Alex Smiths rigid mindset. But Kap Iis a street baller. Hes a gun slinger. Hes being the good Soldier and working his butt off, but to me this is a round peg in a square hole sceanario

Kap would be much better in a wide open, WCO offense imo. Hes a rare talent who can make something out of nothing. Like a Montana, Favre, Fran Tarkenton, Randle Cunningham. I believe this offense is clogging the drain. Give the horse his head and let him run. Direct him, dont suffocate him. Yes, he will make mistakes, but his growth curve will be much faster IMHO..

Good take. I feel Kap is perfect for what Roman wants to do. Or is it Roman is doing what Kap is most comfortable with? I agree when you said "with this depleted WR corp", and that he is a gun slinger. It is harder to go downfield when you have basically one downfield target.

Kap's strengths as a passer, at this stage in his career, is firing that ball downfield. Don't try to read too much. Roman will draw up the play to make it easier on Kap. Kap just fire it in there. Use the arm strength and downfield accuracy to beat coverage.

You say he's a street baller, but want WCO. That is kind of opposite of one another. WCO is very disciplined and requires the QB to put the ball where it has to be, on time. I don't think Kap is a square going into a round hole or vice versa. He's more like clay and can be molded. He could end up doing both the things you mentioned - street balling gun slinger and disciplined WCO QB. That is my hope.

I've posted a lot about the WCO and how Roman/Harbaugh is not using it, but in no way do I want any sort of full WCO. Kap would have a huge learning curve that could put the success of the season in jeopardy if Harbaugh suddenly went that direction. All I am asking for is more passes to RBs when the downfield targets are covered or when Kap is blitzed. It should be sprinkled into the gameplan. The general theme of the offense should not change, and that is to use Kap for the gunslinger he is.
^^^ Basically, CK would be more ideal for GB's WCO/Spread combo offense?
Originally posted by NCommand:
^^^ Basically, CK would be more ideal for GB's WCO/Spread combo offense?

Any offense that can buy him time in the pocket, with dangerous targets downfield would fit right into what Kap can do best, at this stage of his career. He's still a young pup and the game is fast to him. Roman is basically relying on Kap's arm talent while keeping it simple.

GB offense works well for Rodgers because he attacks all areas of the field. He has that elite vision coupled with that street baller ability. Kap wouldn't utilize all the receiving options, again, at this stage in his career. But if what you mean is run an offense just like how Rodgers runs his passing offense, once Kap approaches his prime? Yes, that is my hope. Rodgers is the best mix of WCO, street baller there is in the NFL.
Originally posted by NCommand:
^^^ Basically, CK would be more ideal for GB's WCO/Spread combo offense?

I would think so! The best QB for the Roman/Harbaugh system would seem to be a strong armed, quick decision guy like P Manning. Could never rely on his legs so had to learn to read and react. CK will likely become much better at reading and reacting but last year he could just outrun everyone. I almost suspect the 9ers are keeping CK in the pocket for experience and when they get to the playoffs will let him go...or is that wishful thinking on my part?

The WCO passing is Calculus...everything else is arithmetic. The QB and receivers had to know what to do based on the defense so that the timing would work out perfectly. Miss it but...oh well...go niners!
Maybe the offense is the way it is because thats all Kaep can handle at the moment? Or maybe the offense is kept simple in order to keep turnovers at a minimum, thats my guess any way.

If you watch Kaep closely he has improved in his decision making and his footwork is better as well, He did well against the blitz and didn't drop his head as pressure came, i was very encouraged watching the AZ game actually, i thought that was his best game thus far this season. He's taking to the coaching and i think that is the most important thing
[ Edited by ninerhippy on Oct 16, 2013 at 8:21 PM ]
I'm not an X's and O's guy, but does anyone think our current O resembles more of a Norv turner style (power O mixed in with deep shots down field) offense?
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NCommand:
^^^ Basically, CK would be more ideal for GB's WCO/Spread combo offense?

Any offense that can buy him time in the pocket, with dangerous targets downfield would fit right into what Kap can do best, at this stage of his career. He's still a young pup and the game is fast to him. Roman is basically relying on Kap's arm talent while keeping it simple.

GB offense works well for Rodgers because he attacks all areas of the field. He has that elite vision coupled with that street baller ability. Kap wouldn't utilize all the receiving options, again, at this stage in his career. But if what you mean is run an offense just like how Rodgers runs his passing offense, once Kap approaches his prime? Yes, that is my hope. Rodgers is the best mix of WCO, street baller there is in the NFL.

GB does a ton of dinking and dunking. The short stuff has been a problem this year.
Originally posted by IMnotsoHO:
I'm not an X's and O's guy, but does anyone think our current O resembles more of a Norv turner style (power O mixed in with deep shots down field) offense?

It is very coryell like. The difference is the creativity in the run game. While still a downhill power run attack, we have alot more unique formations and utilize motion much more frequently.
Originally posted by IMnotsoHO:
I'm not an X's and O's guy, but does anyone think our current O resembles more of a Norv turner style (power O mixed in with deep shots down field) offense?

To the point where they should have just brought the genuine article in. In terms of passing game creativity, Norv is eons beyond Roman.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by IMnotsoHO:
I'm not an X's and O's guy, but does anyone think our current O resembles more of a Norv turner style (power O mixed in with deep shots down field) offense?

It is very coryell like. The difference is the creativity in the run game. While still a downhill power run attack, we have alot more unique formations and utilize motion much more frequently.

Right on, IdahoNiner, Air Coryell and his 91 Redskins. Power running, like you said, not as imaginative as Roman's run scheme. They had a WR named Clark who played opposite side to Monk. Clark averaged 19 yards per while making 70 catches that SB season. That's VD's vertical role in the 49er's passing game. If Crabs comes back, he can be Monk. They were a run first team, with shots downfield.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/1991.htm
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NCommand:
^^^ Basically, CK would be more ideal for GB's WCO/Spread combo offense?

Any offense that can buy him time in the pocket, with dangerous targets downfield would fit right into what Kap can do best, at this stage of his career. He's still a young pup and the game is fast to him. Roman is basically relying on Kap's arm talent while keeping it simple.

GB offense works well for Rodgers because he attacks all areas of the field. He has that elite vision coupled with that street baller ability. Kap wouldn't utilize all the receiving options, again, at this stage in his career. But if what you mean is run an offense just like how Rodgers runs his passing offense, once Kap approaches his prime? Yes, that is my hope. Rodgers is the best mix of WCO, street baller there is in the NFL.

GB does a ton of dinking and dunking. The short stuff has been a problem this year.

Going to be interesting to see how Rodgers does without some top WRs. Cobb and James Jones hurt.
Originally posted by Butter:
I feel like Romans offense is a bad fit for Kap, especially with this depleated WR core. I read that Roman calls in two plays to Kap. If thats true, hes got to process the info...twice, readthe d, call the play, possibly audible, the rest of the O has to react, and then he has to execute a very rigid play call to one or maybe two reads. This was a great fit for Alex Smiths rigid mindset. But Kap Iis a street baller. Hes a gun slinger. Hes being the good Soldier and working his butt off, but to me this is a round peg in a square hole sceanario

Kap would be much better in a wide open, WCO offense imo. Hes a rare talent who can make something out of nothing. Like a Montana, Favre, Fran Tarkenton, Randle Cunningham. I believe this offense is clogging the drain. Give the horse his head and let him run. Direct him, dont suffocate him. Yes, he will make mistakes, but his growth curve will be much faster IMHO..

I don't understand what you mean by "wide open WCO". West Coast Offense is precision and timing, counting on receivers to get YAC, not bombing it down the field. There hasn't been a true West Coast Offense since the days of Bill Walsh and his was similar In That he allowed the QB to make his decision based on the opposing defense through progressions and reads rather than two different plays, but it was certainly not wide open. Since then, different coordinators have put their own spins on it, usually based on the QB they had and tailoring to his strengths. Steve Young wasn't great in it until Shannahan tailored the offense to suit Young's mobility. That was when he started killing folks with the bootleg. The shotgun formation was never even used until Montana left because he hated it. The thing about WCO is that the coordinator needs to understand the QB's strengths and weaknesses and tailor his offense to best suit him. That is one reason I've been so perplexed to see us not utilize Kaep's mobility more this year. I understand not wanting to get him hurt, but it doesn't have to be the read option. Bootlegs and other plays that put pressure on the D would surely open up more opportunities for Gore, Davis and Co.
[ Edited by gunslinger8 on Oct 16, 2013 at 11:19 PM ]