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Wide receivers ARE getting open!

Originally posted by trellblaze:
How are we so certain that McDonald, James, and Baldwin are playmakers? Are we basing this on their physical attributes only? They haven't proven themselves to be play makers. Baldwin is big, yes. So was J.J. Stokes. McDonald is a rookie. James has displayed a mixed bag of results when he's on the field. Not to mention his inability to pass block makes the offense a LOT more predictable when he enters the game. They know we're not gonna leave him back there to protect Colin. The D is gonna be looking for the screen the moment they see him in the huddle.

All this said, aside from the Colts game, I really don't see that Roman has destroyed this offense in anyway. We went to the Super Bowl last year and we're currently 4-2. Are you saying that our offense, as it is right now, is so talented that it can score 30+ in spite of extremely poor play calling?

THATS THE WHOLE POINT!

We don't know because either A) the coaches arent planning for them or B) Kaep isnt throwing to them.

Also McDonald and Baldwin made plays in the preseason. McDonald was leaping over LBs and truckin' through DB's. Baldwin had a couple of catches and let's get real I'm sure he can use his physical presence to make some catches when he's in single coverage which he often is.
James more than proved his ability to make plays after Hunter went out.

This offense scored 30+ against GB so clearly it's able to put the point up.
Originally posted by eonblue:
Our receivers are not dropping 5-7 balls a game and you know it. In fact I'm half way through this Az game and there hasn't been one drop. He hasn't thrown to anyone else besides Boldin and Davis who are in tight coverage though. Couple of deflected passes.

Brady would have a heyday with Boldin and Davis.

I agree though. If we had Crabs and MM things would be different but the lack of adjustment is the issue here.

Kaep has to be smarter than that.

I mean how many times do you have to do something before you know it wont work?

Well sorry to say but you are full of sh*t if you hadnt seen one drop... Boldin drops a ball that hits him in the hands on the first drive of the game when he was open (12:49 in the first quarter). And after that Kap starts rocketing the ball right to his receivers hands but since they have no seperation the defender is able to swipe their hands and they drop the ball. That happens throughout the game...

I do agree with you about McDonald though, he is the only guy I notice open consistently and should start getting more and more involved in the gameplan. But lets remember it took awhile for VD to get worked in, then DW had a good string of games then dissapeared... its all relative. But the other receivers we have are open once every other drive if even that often.
[ Edited by 5280High on Oct 16, 2013 at 12:27 AM ]
Originally posted by trellblaze:
LOL. Go look for NCommand's post explaining Roman's offense. You'll understand that it's more about what the play is designed to do than what Kaepernick "looks" at.

I read it and it doesn't matter.

One you don't even know if that's the style of offense we run. You don't know how often we run it. Yea we try to get Vernon isolated one on one. Yea we try to clear DB's out with decoy WRs. These are number calling play's and I highly doubt the coaches are calling Davis and Boldin every single play. If the defense eliminates your main read you have a 2nd and 3rd option. Are you trying to tell me Kaep should just ignore the other receivers because he has a "main" read? A main read that happens to smother in coverage, and baked in DB sauce. Lastly more often than not Baldwin or KW are running routes that clearly are not part of a scheme to get someone open. Yet again these number calling plays probably amount to 5-6 a game.
Originally posted by eonblue:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Thats a stretch, yes his receivers are dropping allot of balls but so are ours, along with an inability to get open. We have our best receiver right now would be a WR2 on most teams and our other receivers would be lucky to be a third receiver. If Kap had Crabs, AB, MM, JB, KW, and QP in that order of the depth chart we wouldnt even be having a discussion about our passing game or it would be about how awesome it was.

Our receivers are not dropping 5-7 balls a game and you know it. In fact I'm half way through this Az game and there hasn't been one drop. He hasn't thrown to anyone else besides Boldin and Davis who are in tight coverage though. Couple of deflected passes.

Brady would have a heyday with Boldin and Davis.

I agree though. If we had Crabs and MM things would be different but the lack of adjustment is the issue here.

Kaep has to be smarter than that.

I mean how many times do you have to do something before you know it wont work?

So, Kaepernick should be able to read defenses as well as Brady now?

Brady (14 years), does most of his reading before the snap. During the play, he does a lot more knowing than reading. In other words, he knows where the WR should be in relation to the defender and doesn't have to read and react half as much. He sometimes knows exactly what's happening on one side of the field based only on what he's looking at on the other side. This is what you get from the Brady's, Manning's, Breez's, and even Rodgers sometimes. This is what you get when you have a QB who's seen everything you can possibly throw at him. There is nothing Brady hasn't seen.

Because of these things, Brady is given a whole new level of responsibility when it comes to offense. He can orchestrate all the parts. He can mix and match plays on the spot...at the line of scrimmage. He's not given 2 plays in the huddle and told "if you see this, audible to the other one". That sort of thing happens to young QBs with less than 20 games of experience.

Not all plays are designed to read the entire field. Not all QBs are given the opportunity to run such an offense (see Schaub, Matt). As a coach, you do what you can with the players you have. As a player, you do what the coaches allow you to do. It's really simple.
Originally posted by trellblaze:
So, Kaepernick should be able to read defenses as well as Brady now?

Brady (14 years), does most of his reading before the snap. During the play, he does a lot more knowing than reading. In other words, he knows where the WR should be in relation to the defender and doesn't have to read and react half as much. He sometimes knows exactly what's happening on one side of the field based only on what he's looking at on the other side. This is what you get from the Brady's, Manning's, Breez's, and even Rodgers sometimes. This is what you get when you have a QB who's seen everything you can possibly throw at him. There is nothing Brady hasn't seen.

Because of these things, Brady is given a whole new level of responsibility when it comes to offense. He can orchestrate all the parts. He can mix and match plays on the spot...at the line of scrimmage. He's not given 2 plays in the huddle and told "if you see this, audible to the other one". That sort of thing happens to young QBs with less than 20 games of experience.

Not all plays are designed to read the entire field. Not all QBs are given the opportunity to run such an offense (see Schaub, Matt). As a coach, you do what you can with the players you have. As a player, you do what the coaches allow you to do. It's really simple.

Great post, you nailed it. Its just gonna take time and personnel getting healthy. Expecting Kap to be at a 10+ year veterans level or 7year vet like Rogers after barely a seasons worth of starts is a little too high of expectations.
Originally posted by 5280High:
Well sorry to say but you are full of sh*t if you hadnt seen one drop... Boldin drops a ball that hits him in the hands on the first drive of the game when he was open (12:49 in the first quarter). And after that Kap starts rocketing the ball right to his receivers hands but since they have no seperation the defender is able to swipe their hands and they drop the ball. That happens throughout the game...

Lol you mean the rocket that Kaep fires low and in front? Yea. Clearly Boldins fault.

See this what makes me so angry. People making excuses for Kaep.

Let me clear something up for you. When you mean firing rockets into the hand of his receivers you mean staring down Boldin who is clearly covered by Patrick Peterson. Petersons in his prime and Kaep should know you're not forcing anything to Boldin. Davis had more success.

Kaep has KW and Baldwin open in the 1st quarter and the coverage is soft. But I understand how it's the WR's fault they didn't get the ball thrown to them. Makes sense.
[ Edited by eonblue on Oct 16, 2013 at 12:38 AM ]
Originally posted by trellblaze:
How are we so certain that McDonald, James, and Baldwin are playmakers? Are we basing this on their physical attributes only? They haven't proven themselves to be play makers. Baldwin is big, yes. So was J.J. Stokes. McDonald is a rookie. James has displayed a mixed bag of results when he's on the field. Not to mention his inability to pass block makes the offense a LOT more predictable when he enters the game. They know we're not gonna leave him back there to protect Colin. The D is gonna be looking for the screen the moment they see him in the huddle.

All this said, aside from the Colts game, I really don't see that Roman has destroyed this offense in anyway. We went to the Super Bowl last year and we're currently 4-2. Are you saying that our offense, as it is right now, is so talented that it can score 30+ in spite of extremely poor play calling?

In the cardinals game, the defense gave us so many turnovers, that our offense should have scored more than the 32 points they were able to. Instead, the cards were in the game all the way to the 4th quarter, which is unusual for a team that turned over the ball as much as the cardinals did in that game. Now I don't think our offense is bad, but I do think the majority of our passing offense needs to be improved. As it stands now, it is to easy to scheme against. I know we are a run first team, but would rather have a passing offense that can win the game if that is what it comes down to.
Originally posted by trellblaze:
So, Kaepernick should be able to read defenses as well as Brady now?

Brady (14 years), does most of his reading before the snap. During the play, he does a lot more knowing than reading. In other words, he knows where the WR should be in relation to the defender and doesn't have to read and react half as much. He sometimes knows exactly what's happening on one side of the field based only on what he's looking at on the other side. This is what you get from the Brady's, Manning's, Breez's, and even Rodgers sometimes. This is what you get when you have a QB who's seen everything you can possibly throw at him. There is nothing Brady hasn't seen.

Because of these things, Brady is given a whole new level of responsibility when it comes to offense. He can orchestrate all the parts. He can mix and match plays on the spot...at the line of scrimmage. He's not given 2 plays in the huddle and told "if you see this, audible to the other one". That sort of thing happens to young QBs with less than 20 games of experience.

Not all plays are designed to read the entire field. Not all QBs are given the opportunity to run such an offense (see Schaub, Matt). As a coach, you do what you can with the players you have. As a player, you do what the coaches allow you to do. It's really simple.

Yea. That's exactly what I said. It's funny how people compare Brady and Kaeps to make excuses for him but it can't work the other way around.

Your missing my point.

Kaep is missing read. He's force feeding receivers before his other options even run their route fully.

Also you can't tell me Kaep doesn't have some idea how to read coverages. He should at least know when KW, Baldwin, and Mcdonald are going to be singled. More than that he should know not to throw into double coverage or tight man.
Originally posted by eonblue:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Well sorry to say but you are full of sh*t if you hadnt seen one drop... Boldin drops a ball that hits him in the hands on the first drive of the game when he was open (12:49 in the first quarter). And after that Kap starts rocketing the ball right to his receivers hands but since they have no seperation the defender is able to swipe their hands and they drop the ball. That happens throughout the game...

Lol you mean the rocket that Kaep fires low and in front? Yea. Clearly Boldins fault.

See this what makes me so angry. People making excuses for Kaep.

Let me clear something up for you. When you mean firing rockets into the hand of his receivers you mean staring down Boldin who is clearly covered by Patrick Peterson. Petersons in his prime and Kaep should know you're not forcing anything to Boldin. Davis had more success.

Kaep has KW and Baldwin open in the 1st quarter and the coverage is soft. But I understand how it's the WR's fault in this case. Makes sense.

You are crazy man, and I mean that in the best way possible. Its hits him in the hands... he is an NFL receiver, hes still gotta catch those. You expect Kap to be Mr. Perfect but then excuse all the receivers because its not a perfect throw. Boldin said it himself if a balls coming his way he expects to catch it no matter what because he is a pro, he didnt there that is on him. Its not an excuse its a fact. He was open on that play by a couple yards and it was a great throw and kept him out of danger.

You keep saying "soft coverage" like you actually understand what it is, just cause a guy is 5 yards off doesnt automatically mean the WR is open lol.

He forced sh*t to Davis too but you dont even notice cause Davis made those catches. You cant just apply a theory when its convenient, its gotta be uniform throughout the game.
[ Edited by 5280High on Oct 16, 2013 at 12:47 AM ]
Originally posted by Kali49er:
In the cardinals game, the defense gave us so many turnovers, that our offense should have scored more than the 32 points they were able to. Instead, the cards were in the game all the way to the 4th quarter, which is unusual for a team that turned over the ball as much as the cardinals did in that game. Now I don't think our offense is bad, but I do think the majority of our passing offense needs to be improved. Asnow, it is to easy to scheme against it stands . I know we are a run first team, but would rather have a passing offense that can win the game if that is what it comes down to.

It's going to bite us in the ass. Wait and see.
Originally posted by 5280High:
You are batsh*t crazy man, and I mean that in the best way possible. Its hits him in the hands... he is an NFL receiver, hes still gotta catch those. You expect Kap to be Mr. Perfect but then excuse all the receivers because its not a perfect throw. Boldin said it himself if a balls comes his way he expects to catch it no matter what because he is a pro, he didnt there that is on him. Its not an excuse its a fact.

He forced sh*t to Davis too but you dont even notice cause Davis made those catches. You cant just apply a theory when its convenient, its gotta be uniform throughout the game.

Dude the ball is a foot from the ground. Boldin fully extends and still doesn't get a finger on it. Clearly an NFL receiver should be able to grow a foot mid jump and catch that though.

And I did notice Davis. I noted it in a previous post.

I also noticed Kaep pass Davis into the safety Jeremiah Bell on a crossing route. Passes him right into the safeties head.

Man, I'm not trying to crucify Kaep. I just wish he would pay attention to the other WR's. They're out there for a reason. More often than not they're wide open because of Davis and Boldin drawing the coverages.

Kaep could maintain drives easier and make things smoother on himself if he would throw some trust to his other options sometime.
It's like SanDiego's offspring all came to the zone lol... Weird a passing offense with 2 of its top 3 receivers injured is struggling, who'd a thunk it?
Originally posted by 5280High:
It's like SanDiego's offspring all came to the zone lol... Weird a passing offense with 2 of its top 3 receivers injured is struggling, who'd a thunk it?

Clearly I'm not the only one frustrated. Baalke must be San Diego offspring as well because he was throwing a fit in the box watching Kaep miss wide open receivers.
Originally posted by eonblue:
Dude the ball is a foot from the ground. Boldin fully extends and still doesn't get a finger on it. Clearly an NFL receiver should be able to grow a foot mid jump and catch that though.

And I did notice Davis. I noted it in a previous post.

I also noticed Kaep pass Davis into the safety Jeremiah Bell on a crossing route. Passes him right into the safeties head.

Man, I'm not trying to crucify Kaep. I just wish he would pay attention to the other WR's. They're out there for a reason. More often than not they're wide open because of Davis and Boldin drawing the coverages.

Kaep could maintain drives easier and make things smoother on himself if he would throw some trust to his other options sometime.

I have that play on my screen bro it hits him perfectly in the hands lol It only looks low after it hits Boldins hands. Pause it right before it hits Boldin and if you dont think he should of made that catch then your expectations for NFL receivers is pretty low. And if you notice he didnt stare down Boldin he switched reads and saw Boldin open before making that throw on the run while evading pressure...thats a pretty damn good throw 20+ yards downfield for that situation. I am not excusing Kap he is forcing throws but I answered that question of yours in the Kap thread. The fact remains our WRs outside of Boldin are horrible and get no seperation.
[ Edited by 5280High on Oct 16, 2013 at 1:00 AM ]
Originally posted by eonblue:
Clearly I'm not the only one frustrated. Baalke must be San Diego offspring as well because he was throwing a fit in the box watching Kaep miss wide open receivers.

Well thats awesome you were in the box with Baalke and know the full context of his reaction, im sure there is absolutely no speculation involved in that statement.

Its been fun bantering back and forth but im gonna hit the hay, Hopefully all our troubles are cured with a 300+ yard performance this week and we can talk about how both Kap and our WRs have improved over the week.
[ Edited by 5280High on Oct 16, 2013 at 1:06 AM ]