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Wide receivers ARE getting open!

Originally posted by GORO:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Sorry, should have clarified better...under Alex's tenure, many of the complaints were slow starts to games, not pulling the trigger, taking sacks, not seeing wide open receivers, poor 1st and 3rd down conversions, unimaginative route trees, needing to pass under 3 seconds, etc.

Basically, we're starting to see that much of this is coming down to the type of offense we installed here and coaching as being the common denominator under two very different QB's...but we are having the same results/concerns.

I certainly agreed with the QB switch given CK's upside and how his mobility fits better into this type of offense (if that targeted receiver is covered, CK can burn you better with his mobility and legs than Alex; he's also a better deeper threat and better at ad libbing). I certainly don't want to get into a QB debate b/c we all know each other's strengths/weaknesses like the back of our hands but to me, the type of offense we run and coaching of both QB's within it, appear to be identical at this juncture.


I agree with everything you are saying and believe that this is a good thing like last Sunday when VD got wide open and a bad thing when a good defensive team with a good coach understands how the 49ers work. Ted Ginn was never sent out on isolation deep routes now he is in Carolina and doing these things.

I'm sure we'll see the same with Austin Collie and Hawkins and others as well...maybe even Chad Hall in KC. We have talent...just being underutilized in the passing game IMHO (that includes the RB's as well). Run game is solid though (would like to see more Hunter though minus those stupid stretch run plays that always net up minus-5 yards). Ha
Originally posted by dwett:
I have the same issue so it must just work on the offense. and as I stated earlier only in my mind. This is why I love the bud light commercials. Fans doing what ever they can to produce positive results.

Hey, it's only weird if it doesn't work!
Originally posted by 5280High:
If there is one negative with our coaches it is that they all have large egos and believe their way is the best way. Which works with the right personnel but when that personnel starts to change or gets injured they are not quick to adapt... they look at a guy like KW who is our second best practice WR and say "ok he is our #2" and line him up on the outside when he is a much better suited to the slot. Or they look at a great slot guy like Collie and say, well he cant play the outside so he is expendable. Just seems like they have some very rigid ideologies of personnel and the plays they want to run.

LMJ has the best hands of any of our running backs but instead of sending him out like NO does with Sproles they stick to trying to run up the middle with him, its like they only change their thinking once every other option of their philosophy has been exhausted, and then sh*t starts to work again. Its hard to complain because we are a great team but their does seem to be so much untapped potential that our coaches egos arent tapping into. Just like Fangios love affair with vets cost us Cooper, the reluctance to try anything new is on both sides of the ball.

It would be seriously hard to argue anything here! And please, don't bring Cooper up again...I'll seriously lose it. LOL
  • dwett
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 670
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by dwett:
I have the same issue so it must just work on the offense. and as I stated earlier only in my mind. This is why I love the bud light commercials. Fans doing what ever they can to produce positive results.

Hey, it's only weird if it doesn't work!
LOL to be honest my first Niner game in person was the Houston game. I live in Des Moines so going to games cost quite a bit. Was worried since I normally switch Jerseys during the game depending on how it was going but really couldn't do that at the stadium. Luckily our defense enabled me to feel comfortable or I may have been looking to switch our of my Rice jersey early and not sure what I would have done
^^^ glad you were able to truly enjoy the game!!! Great ritual too...so funny.
Onething I think the offense needs to do is get a quick guy that can work the slot A quick shifty wr that can get open fast
  • dwett
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 670
Originally posted by NCommand:
^^^ glad you were able to truly enjoy the game!!! Great ritual too...so funny.

I was and maybe this is strange place to say it but I had season ticket holders on both sides of me. There were Houston fans near us and I was impressed by how everyone handled themselves. Were there comments made during the game sure..... but they were jabs not personal which made the experience for me great. The niners won, but the fans held up the standard I feel is expected of a niner's fans.

Educated and compassionate.

Most of the Jabs where I am sorry Schaub is your QB, we had Dorsey at one point.



Loved it and am sad that will be the last at Candlestick for me
[ Edited by dwett on Oct 15, 2013 at 7:32 PM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by frozen49er:
We have wide receivers? Huh?

I dont think so, I know we have two pretty good TEs in VD and Boldin.

I know you're joking, but you made me wonder if perhaps Boldin can play TE. Perhaps he could learn to block?

Why?

Because we love it when our #1 receiver stays in to block DE's and LB's.

Yes, only look at it from the surface.

No...because, for one, he has the body for it. If he were a legitimate blocking threat, it would be an added tool to have a guy with WR skills matched up on a linebacker - you know, the way we scheme to get Vernon Davis matched up on linebackers. Essentially we'd have a D. Walker-esque player who has the direct opposite of Walker's ability (or inability) when it comes to pass catching.

Obviously you don't play him exclusively at TE. Just enough to give the D something to think about. It would be just as effective and frequent as moving Kilgore out wide.

A second layer of it is that, in a few years, it's likely that Boldin's play will start to decline as a WR. I'm sure he'll lose some speed. He doesn't have much speed to lose. Maybe you get a few more years of high productivity out of him if he can play TE - a position that doesn't require great speed (see Witten, Jason). Of course, this layer only matters if we intend to re-sign him long term which is doubtful.
Originally posted by dj43:
We certainly could use better receivers but that hasn't bothered Brady in NE. Bad Bill has put in an offense that uses all the players, not just one or two.

Look back to last season. When Alex Smith was running the team, they spread the ball round quite well with Crabtree and the rest of a rather motley crew. When Kaepernick took over, the offense changed. CK began looking almost exclusively to Crabtree. Davis disappeared. Now Crabtree is gone but Boldin gets the same kind of attention. Davis has had more play but that is the sole extent of the passing plays.

It is going to be very interesting to see if the offense changes when Crabtree comes back. Will Boldin still be a target? How often? Will Davis be turned back into primarily a blocker?

I have seen little from Harbaugh that tells me he knows how to use more than one receiver at a time.

What? Have you not seen Brady's numbers this year? They're worse than Kaepernicks. Yes, he HAS been very much bothered by lack of talent at the WR position.
Originally posted by trellblaze:
What? Have you not seen Brady's numbers this year? They're worse than Kaepernicks. Yes, he HAS been very much bothered by lack of talent at the WR position.

What's happening to Kaep and what's happening to Brady are two different things.

Brady is reading the defense, and hitting open receivers, but they're dropping his passes.

I've watched 2 Pats games, and his WR core had at least 5 drops. At least.

If Brady had our receivers he would be passing for 400 a game.
Im watching this Cardinals game, and it literally is starting to make me angry.

Defenses have to know by now. Take away Boldin and Davis.

Kaep wont look at anyone else.

And he hasn't.

He throwing into tight man coverage while Williams and Baldwin have a 5yard cushion.

One play he throws Davis into the safety Bell. s**t is so dangerous.
Originally posted by eonblue:
What's happening to Kaep and what's happening to Brady are two different things.

Brady is reading the defense, and hitting open receivers, but they're dropping his passes.

I've watched 2 Pats games, and his WR core had at least 5 drops. At least.

If Brady had our receivers he would be passing for 400 a game.

Thats a stretch, yes his receivers are dropping allot of balls but so are ours, along with an inability to get open. We have our best receiver right now would be a WR2 on most teams and our other receivers would be lucky to be a third receiver. If Kap had Crabs, AB, MM, JB, KW, and QP in that order of the depth chart we wouldnt even be having a discussion about our passing game or it would be about how awesome it was.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Not all plays are designed this way. You're taking it to the extreme. But surely you've seen that almost half of them are designed for everyone else on the field to clear out space for Vernon Davis or Michael Crabtree (last season). Roman's M.O. is to get the ball into his play maker's hands by any means necessary. When the D schemes to take a specific player or players out of the game, often the only remedy to that is to dial up a play or two in which the entire team is basically a diversion. ALL TEAMS do this. It is not a new concept by any means and is definitely not unique to our team. It just so happens that Roman does it on a deeper level and far more often than others.

So yes, a LOT of the time there is only one read to make.

That's not to say that Kaepernick hasn't missed a few. Nobody is implying that he is mistake free. Just that most of the sh**t he gets is unwarranted and most people - not implying you personally - don't have the slightest clue as to what they're talking about when they're critiquing his play.

The thing is, this offense has a lot of playmakers, its not as much of a poverty offense as some make it sound, beyond Boldin and Davis you have McDonald, you have LaMichael James as threat for screen plays and so on, you have Baldwin who is big and has tremendous length, its just a matter of utilizing all these weapons and spreading the ball around, calling plays for them to be successful and keep the defense on its toes, Roman sucks at that.

How are we so certain that McDonald, James, and Baldwin are playmakers? Are we basing this on their physical attributes only? They haven't proven themselves to be play makers. Baldwin is big, yes. So was J.J. Stokes. McDonald is a rookie. James has displayed a mixed bag of results when he's on the field. Not to mention his inability to pass block makes the offense a LOT more predictable when he enters the game. They know we're not gonna leave him back there to protect Colin. The D is gonna be looking for the screen the moment they see him in the huddle.

All this said, aside from the Colts game, I really don't see that Roman has destroyed this offense in anyway. We went to the Super Bowl last year and we're currently 4-2. Are you saying that our offense, as it is right now, is so talented that it can score 30+ in spite of extremely poor play calling?
Originally posted by 5280High:
Thats a stretch, yes his receivers are dropping allot of balls but so are ours, along with an inability to get open. We have our best receiver right now would be a WR2 on most teams and our other receivers would be lucky to be a third receiver. If Kap had Crabs, AB, MM, JB, KW, and QP in that order of the depth chart we wouldnt even be having a discussion about our passing game or it would be about how awesome it was.

Our receivers are not dropping 5-7 balls a game and you know it. In fact I'm half way through this Az game and there hasn't been one drop. He hasn't thrown to anyone else besides Boldin and Davis who are in tight coverage though. Couple of deflected passes.

Brady would have a heyday with Boldin and Davis.

I agree though. If we had Crabs and MM things would be different but the lack of adjustment is the issue here.

Kaep has to be smarter than that.

I mean how many times do you have to do something before you know it wont work?
Originally posted by eonblue:
Im watching this Cardinals game, and it literally is starting to make me angry.

Defenses have to know by now. Take away Boldin and Davis.

Kaep wont look at anyone else.

And he hasn't.

He throwing into tight man coverage while Williams and Baldwin have a 5yard cushion.

One play he throws Davis into the safety Bell. s**t is so dangerous.

LOL. Go look for NCommand's post explaining Roman's offense. You'll understand that it's more about what the play is designed to do than what Kaepernick "looks" at.