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2013 - Week 6: Thoughts after rewatching the game...

  • dwett
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 626
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by dwett:
Hey Marvin, This is more about the last few weeks vs only the Cardinals game. Felt you would be the one to ask. Over the last few week, really after the Colts game, I have felt I am seeing more plays run under center vs the shotgun formation.

In the "Wide receivers ARE getting open" thread, NCommand and thl408 had an interesting conversion going about the WCO and how we are not running a similar offense.

The idea of looking beyond your primary WR is key in the WCO but no as much in our playcalling. The question I had to them is are we slowly working Kaep into being more comfortable under center since he was primarily a Shot gun QB all his life.

I thought I had seen more plays under center and my first thought was it was due to the fact Frank is simply a better running back in those cases, but am wondering if we are also trying to get Kaep more comfortable under center, to open our playbook up with some WCO philosophies.

Just wanted to get your thoughts on what you are seeing and if I am wrong in feeling we have gone under center more often the last two weeks.


Well...just my 2 cents...saying the 49ers don't run a true WCO is both correct and incorrect. NOBODY runs the true WCO as it existed with Walsh, but EVERYONE runs aspects of it. Its also about more than just the plays on the field...its about how you adjust, how you practice...everything.

Also, the 49ers seem to do different things from week to week, so saying what we are or are not doing is constantly changing.

My personal opinion is that Kap is trusting his arm a bit to much by forcing the ball to his first read even if he is barely open and is missing some secondary reads because of it. PLayers aren't really getting open in terms of their progressions...IE...Vernon Davis might be breaking wide open down the field but if he's the 3rd read Kap isn't going to get to him if he sees the 1st or second open.

Its been drummed into everyones heads that Boldin is open when he isn't open and I kinda think Kap has taken that too much to heart and will throw to him even with defenders all over him. If he's the first read, Kap is going to throw that ball into tight coverage and never even get to a second read that might be more open. He can't see all receivers at all times.

I'm not saying this isn't Kaps fault BTW...just saying he needs to work through this and a primary receiver who creates more separation (like Crab) could do wonders for 2 reasons...

1) He will get separation more often
2) Will be easier to recognize if Kap needs to move to the second read.

Just my 2 cents.
Just to make sure I understand, I am wrong feeling we are slowing working Kaep under center. We are simply each week running different schemes which may include more under center looks.

So despite Roman and Harbaugh's background in the WCO it still shows we are not fully working to commit to that. I see what you are saying how it changes week to week but doesn't it seem that they are simply grooming Kaep to that philosophy slowly while still trying to win games with what they have.

No idea I am not in there but I still feel grooming Kaep in WCO ideas and having his strong are and running ability will lead us to number 6.
Originally posted by NeonNiner:
The only two games where I would say Colin "sucked" is in the Seattle and Indy games ( ). He hasn't been outstanding or spectacular (besides vs GB) but he's made some clutch plays here and there and has put the team in more positions to win rather than lose. Arizona was probably his best game since GB. His QBR and stats are still pretty good even while showing blemishes of a young inexperienced QB and having only 1 (2 if you count VD) consistently reliable WR.

But I guess if you don't throw for 400 yards, 3 TDs with 0 INTs every game, you suck smh .

Nope even then he sucks because he didn't utilize Frank Gore or Kendall Hunter running the ball.
Originally posted by dwett:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by dwett:
Hey Marvin, This is more about the last few weeks vs only the Cardinals game. Felt you would be the one to ask. Over the last few week, really after the Colts game, I have felt I am seeing more plays run under center vs the shotgun formation.

In the "Wide receivers ARE getting open" thread, NCommand and thl408 had an interesting conversion going about the WCO and how we are not running a similar offense.

The idea of looking beyond your primary WR is key in the WCO but no as much in our playcalling. The question I had to them is are we slowly working Kaep into being more comfortable under center since he was primarily a Shot gun QB all his life.

I thought I had seen more plays under center and my first thought was it was due to the fact Frank is simply a better running back in those cases, but am wondering if we are also trying to get Kaep more comfortable under center, to open our playbook up with some WCO philosophies.

Just wanted to get your thoughts on what you are seeing and if I am wrong in feeling we have gone under center more often the last two weeks.


Well...just my 2 cents...saying the 49ers don't run a true WCO is both correct and incorrect. NOBODY runs the true WCO as it existed with Walsh, but EVERYONE runs aspects of it. Its also about more than just the plays on the field...its about how you adjust, how you practice...everything.

Also, the 49ers seem to do different things from week to week, so saying what we are or are not doing is constantly changing.

My personal opinion is that Kap is trusting his arm a bit to much by forcing the ball to his first read even if he is barely open and is missing some secondary reads because of it. PLayers aren't really getting open in terms of their progressions...IE...Vernon Davis might be breaking wide open down the field but if he's the 3rd read Kap isn't going to get to him if he sees the 1st or second open.

Its been drummed into everyones heads that Boldin is open when he isn't open and I kinda think Kap has taken that too much to heart and will throw to him even with defenders all over him. If he's the first read, Kap is going to throw that ball into tight coverage and never even get to a second read that might be more open. He can't see all receivers at all times.

I'm not saying this isn't Kaps fault BTW...just saying he needs to work through this and a primary receiver who creates more separation (like Crab) could do wonders for 2 reasons...

1) He will get separation more often
2) Will be easier to recognize if Kap needs to move to the second read.

Just my 2 cents.
Just to make sure I understand, I am wrong feeling we are slowing working Kaep under center. We are simply each week running different schemes which may include more under center looks.

So despite Roman and Harbaugh's background in the WCO it still shows we are not fully working to commit to that. I see what you are saying how it changes week to week but doesn't it seem that they are simply grooming Kaep to that philosophy slowly while still trying to win games with what they have.

No idea I am not in there but I still feel grooming Kaep in WCO ideas and having his strong are and running ability will lead us to number 6.


Not really.

They are slowly working toward being the team they will at some point be, but not working specifically to becoming a classic WCO. Playing Kap under center probably has more to do with being a strong run formation and giving a better play action sell. The pure WCO doesn't really exist anymore. Working toward being a specific type of offense to me tho is impossible. Its a moving target.

This offense will evolve over time with Kap under center, but how they evelve and what they evolve into will depend on a great many facotrs. Kaps development, the talent at RB, WR, and TE, The talent on the O-Line, and the way defenses choose to defend them.

The 49ers for the most part DO run a WCO in terms of the way plays are called and terminology, but the WCO was never a static thing. It incorporated a number of things and over the years its changed so much that its almost unrecognizable compared to what Walsh run. Just as an example, Walsh never used the shotgun or the I or offset I formations. He ran most plays with a QB under center and the RBs split behind him...IE with Craig and Rathman for example behind the QB at the same depth.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Oct 17, 2013 at 8:41 AM ]
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