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"We can't draft wide receivers"

Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by btthepunk:
Get it together man!!

Sir, yes sir. I will get it together, sir.

I'll let this one slide.
99 and TheDuke

I know! I just think we can draft receivers probably to NFL average. That extended history in (I think) the Duke's post is just horrible!! I think the team chooses not to invest in the position, not that it is unable to.

One thing I think we can agree on. Over the next 6 years we have to invest way more draft capital in receivers. We had huge luck with Boldin and good luck with Manningham as well. But we can't rely on that repeating.

But like Kansas City have for decades relied on other teams to produce their qb's, we seem to be drifting that way with wideouts.
So next spring, let's see it Trent!
We can't draft receivers, or we can't DEVELOP them, or identify them in the first place? We've seen some receivers with supposedly great potential come thru and never amount to anything, or, like Crabtree, take several years to develop. Whereas, in other programs, lower round picks or even free agents, come in and do well almost immediately.
i think this team undervalues receivers in the draft way too much and theyre coaches suck at developing the ones they do actually get. they need to change their philosophy on WRs because its definitely the bottle neck of this offense
Originally posted by 4evrfan:
We can't draft receivers, or we can't DEVELOP them, or identify them in the first place? We've seen some receivers with supposedly great potential come thru and never amount to anything, or, like Crabtree, take several years to develop. Whereas, in other programs, lower round picks or even free agents, come in and do well almost immediately.

I think the coaching is the biggest issue, this team doesn't seem able to develop WR's for s**t while other teams are able to take scrubs and make them look serviceable.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by 4evrfan:
We can't draft receivers, or we can't DEVELOP them, or identify them in the first place? We've seen some receivers with supposedly great potential come thru and never amount to anything, or, like Crabtree, take several years to develop. Whereas, in other programs, lower round picks or even free agents, come in and do well almost immediately.

I think the coaching is the biggest issue, this team doesn't seem able to develop WR's for s**t while other teams are able to take scrubs and make them look serviceable.


Perhaps that is really the issue. It seems to me that other teams can just plug in WRs virtually off the street and still get them to produce. If that is the case then Harbs needs a new WR coach.
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Perhaps that is really the issue. It seems to me that other teams can just plug in WRs virtually off the street and still get them to produce. If that is the case then Harbs needs a new WR coach.

Playcalling also plays a part in it, other teams scheme their guys open, regardless of who they have out there, 49ers just seem to have everyone run the exact same routes, over and over. The Patriots for example have terrible WR's but still have managed to get them open regularly.
Ultimately after some thought I think all you guys may be right.

It appears we are:

1. mis-firing (with the exceptions of Crabtree and Patton) in the draft.
2. not coaching young receivers well enough.
3. Our plan appears to be that receivers don't break their routes even if the see an open lane so as not to misfire with the QB and risk an interception.

#3 might not be such a bad idea for a superbowl contender of course.

But we have to step it up in all three areas.
Yes sir, playcalls hurt. But right now we don't need to draft good receivers, we have 4 good ones in Boldin Vance Vernon Baldwin...two happen to be TEs. Maybe put patton in slot, or LMJ wide of kap. But truly we need no more receivers, we need a Qb who can hit them...I mean more than 6 times out of 15. That is pretty putrid, and has nothing to do w/ receivers, it has to do with a Qb who has become undone...discombobulated. Don't know what it is, but F.O. is worried enough to bring in a new Qb each week. Think they are as worried as we are? Yeah, I bet so. So look to our Qb, not WRs for help. WE got fine receivers...it's the guy on the other end of the ball....you know..our game manager.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Yes sir, playcalls hurt. But right now we don't need to draft good receivers, we have 4 good ones in Boldin Vance Vernon Baldwin...two happen to be TEs. Maybe put patton in slot, or LMJ wide of kap. But truly we need no more receivers, we need a Qb who can hit them...I mean more than 6 times out of 15. That is pretty putrid, and has nothing to do w/ receivers, it has to do with a Qb who has become undone...discombobulated. Don't know what it is, but F.O. is worried enough to bring in a new Qb each week. Think they are as worried as we are? Yeah, I bet so. So look to our Qb, not WRs for help. WE got fine receivers...it's the guy on the other end of the ball....you know..our game manager.

I disagree to a certain extent. Niners need receivers and those receivers need to have size. Look at our receiver's size:

Boldin- 6'1
Crabtree 6'1
K. Williams 5'10
Manningham 6'0
Patton 6'0
Baldwin 6'4

Baldwin and Boldin are the only healthy receivers over 6 feet. So when we go up against taller DBs like the She-hawks their length poses a huge problem for our receivers because of their length. We need receivers that can get off press coverge and typically bigger receivers are better at doing that and getting seperation. I think there has been a lack of investment at the WR position in both drafting and coaching and there is a problem with our recievers size. The problem with the QB getting the ball to the WR is everything to do with the receivers not getting open AND Kap's reluctancy too pull the trigger and/or being confused. I felt during the preseason Kap should have played more to build chemistry with his receivers but Harbaugh ended up not playing much which appears to be hurting us now. The fact they are bringing in new backups doesn't mean much to me as I think Harbaugh wants a closer extended tryout for these guys which says more about Colt than Kap.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Yes sir, playcalls hurt. But right now we don't need to draft good receivers, we have 4 good ones in Boldin Vance Vernon Baldwin...two happen to be TEs. Maybe put patton in slot, or LMJ wide of kap. But truly we need no more receivers, we need a Qb who can hit them...I mean more than 6 times out of 15. That is pretty putrid, and has nothing to do w/ receivers, it has to do with a Qb who has become undone...discombobulated. Don't know what it is, but F.O. is worried enough to bring in a new Qb each week. Think they are as worried as we are? Yeah, I bet so. So look to our Qb, not WRs for help. WE got fine receivers...it's the guy on the other end of the ball....you know..our game manager.

Agreed to a point. However you have to manage something - a gameplan .... I think we have the physical talent. It's the game plan/design.

Quoting myself from another thread .....

I don't know if I completely buy into this philosophy. Patriots come to mind, so do the Steelers. Anytime those players go somewhere else, they're not as "good" as they were previously. I would say rather that you need a good game planner - a WR coach who understand routes and can co-design the passing game with the OC - someone who knows the strengths of his players and can help design gameplans to accentuate their strengths. My problem is that regardless of who I see out there - they all run basically the same boring predictable routes with little variation in the passing game plan. I honestly feel separation is achieved both through talent but more consistently through SCHEME and that's where we're lacking. I agree wholeheartedly as it's been said previously .....


We need a WR coach on the same level that Jim Leavitt is the LB coach - who at one time was considered NFL HC candidate. If the development and play of our LBs were anywhere near what it could be for our WRs, the passing game would be incredible.
Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/172933-quinton-patton-tank-truth/page84/#gy5X8LpL4HS5WRpc.99
[ Edited by NinerGM on Oct 11, 2013 at 10:09 AM ]
Originally posted by E-49er:
I disagree to a certain extent. Niners need receivers and those receivers need to have size. Look at our receiver's size:

Boldin- 6'1
Crabtree 6'1
K. Williams 5'10
Manningham 6'0
Patton 6'0
Baldwin 6'4

Baldwin and Boldin are the only healthy receivers over 6 feet. So when we go up against taller DBs like the She-hawks their length poses a huge problem for our receivers because of their length. We need receivers that can get off press coverge and typically bigger receivers are better at doing that and getting seperation. I think there has been a lack of investment at the WR position in both drafting and coaching and there is a problem with our recievers size. The problem with the QB getting the ball to the WR is everything to do with the receivers not getting open AND Kap's reluctancy too pull the trigger and/or being confused. I felt during the preseason Kap should have played more to build chemistry with his receivers but Harbaugh ended up not playing much which appears to be hurting us now. The fact they are bringing in new backups doesn't mean much to me as I think Harbaugh wants a closer extended tryout for these guys which says more about Colt than Kap.


Which is why 5'10 guys like TY Hilton this season and Titus Young last season have arguably had the most success against their secondary right? People need to get off this idea that you beat HUGE cornerbacks by drafting monster receivers. Richard Sherman is 6'3", Brandon Browner is 6'4", you can't really get bigger than that in any meaningful way when it comes to a wide receiver. You beat those guys with quicker, faster wide receivers than they can keep up with, not by trying to outmuscle them, that is playing into exactly what they want to do on defense.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Oct 11, 2013 at 10:06 AM ]
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Yes sir, playcalls hurt. But right now we don't need to draft good receivers, we have 4 good ones in Boldin Vance Vernon Baldwin...two happen to be TEs. Maybe put patton in slot, or LMJ wide of kap. But truly we need no more receivers, we need a Qb who can hit them...I mean more than 6 times out of 15. That is pretty putrid, and has nothing to do w/ receivers, it has to do with a Qb who has become undone...discombobulated. Don't know what it is, but F.O. is worried enough to bring in a new Qb each week. Think they are as worried as we are? Yeah, I bet so. So look to our Qb, not WRs for help. WE got fine receivers...it's the guy on the other end of the ball....you know..our game manager.

LOL.....where are you getting this from? Boldin is good but he really needs another receiver to occupy the safety over the top for maximum performance. Vance McDonald hasn't done much of anything thus far. VD is hobbled and gimpy, Baldwin is a guy that got dumped on the 49ers by KC, we still don't know if this guy can play and probably won't as long as he gets less snaps than Kyle Williams who we already know can't play.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by E-49er:
I disagree to a certain extent. Niners need receivers and those receivers need to have size. Look at our receiver's size:

Boldin- 6'1
Crabtree 6'1
K. Williams 5'10
Manningham 6'0
Patton 6'0
Baldwin 6'4

Baldwin and Boldin are the only healthy receivers over 6 feet. So when we go up against taller DBs like the She-hawks their length poses a huge problem for our receivers because of their length. We need receivers that can get off press coverge and typically bigger receivers are better at doing that and getting seperation. I think there has been a lack of investment at the WR position in both drafting and coaching and there is a problem with our recievers size. The problem with the QB getting the ball to the WR is everything to do with the receivers not getting open AND Kap's reluctancy too pull the trigger and/or being confused. I felt during the preseason Kap should have played more to build chemistry with his receivers but Harbaugh ended up not playing much which appears to be hurting us now. The fact they are bringing in new backups doesn't mean much to me as I think Harbaugh wants a closer extended tryout for these guys which says more about Colt than Kap.


Which is why 5'10 guys like TY Hilton this season and Titus Young last season have arguably had the most success against their secondary right? People need to get off this idea that you beat HUGE cornerbacks by drafting monster receivers. Richard Sherman is 6'3", Brandon Browner is 6'4", you can't really get bigger than that in any meaningful way when it comes to a wide receiver. You beat those guys with quicker, faster wide receivers than they can keep up with, not by trying to outmuscle them, that is playing into exactly what they want to do on defense.

No, no, no - we need to start draft 6'6 and 6'7 WRs. They do exist!
Originally posted by NinerGM:
No, no, no - we need to start draft 6'6 and 6'7 WRs. They do exist!

It puzzles me beyond belief when people say we need bigger receivers. If the CB is already 6'4", having a 6'5" WR isn't going to give you much of an advantage. However if you watched the Colts game, Browner was struggling and having to hold on to Hilton to keep him from getting away, getting called for multiple penalties in the process. When a 6'4", 220 pound CB is yanking down on a 5'10", 180 pound WR, you WILL notice. Most of the time, Hilton was running free and had 2 or 3 steps on Browner pretty much all game long.


This team doesn't lack size, they lack speed overall, they need a gamebreaker, explosive type of receiver whose speed teams will have to respect, one of the reasons Seattle struggled against Indy is because they had to keep Earl Thomas back deep in case Heyward-Bey or Hilton(he did anyways) took one the distance. The 49ers have a roster full of possession receivers pretty much, they need a true homerun threat at the position to keep defense's honest.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Oct 11, 2013 at 10:12 AM ]