There are 181 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

"We can't draft wide receivers"

  • sfout
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,304
Originally posted by niteshade80:
I'd like to add also, that drafting Wide Receivers or any other position that there is no perfect system for. I believe that the situation this last year to this year was that we lost a probowl safety and needed to replace that player to keep our defense a top notch D and Baalke has added players via draft ironically to help in Aldon Smith's team suspension. I'd like to add also that Walsh, when he was with the 9ers back in the day, did not have perfect drafts across the board, but I believe the parallel between him and the current office is that they don't look at themselves as being perfect, but to look for ways to work those positions into being strengths of the team (e.g. the trade for Baldwin in exchange for Jenkins) and maybe the situations for both WRs will allow for them both to be successful. Also, the draft happened, if my old man brain remembers this correctly, lol, the draft happened before Crabs was injured, which really is outside of anyone's control. If Crabs was injured before the draft, sure, I could see them approaching the draft differently. I believe greater things are on the horizon, in two years, to take a team to the SuperBowl, to me it is very impressive. And to have 13 picks in next year's draft, I believe these are important blocks to building a stronger team. Had it not been for injuries to both Crabtree and Manningham, who knows, we may have been sitting at 5-0 right now, but the 3-2 start, I believe the challenges that the team had to endure this season so far, will make them stronger in the long run. I look at the overall team in the perspective that they approached the game with a certain design in mind and it has not worked and have switched to a more balanced attack, rebounding from a losing streak and have traveled a distance in solving their issues, they have not solved everything yet, but they at least made themselves more competitive and headed in the right direction and really, the challenges that they had to face this year, I feel they are really doing a great job. They still are dealing with injury issues, which is something completely out of their control, but I am hoping that is something that will get better for them as I would love to see the 49ers on top of the football world with their 6th trophy. GO 49ERS!!!!

Wall of text

Edit this and hit the ENTER button a few times
Originally posted by buck:
So far Baalke and Harbaugh have drafted four wide receivers.

2010--Kyle Williams--6th round
2010--Ronald Johnson--6th round
2011--AJ Jenkins--1st round
2012--Quinton Patton--4th round

On clear bust in the first, one bust in the 6th if you can call a 6th round pick a bust.
Kyle Williams--give him whatever grade you want.--I going to give him a C-.
We do not know much about Patton--no grade
6th rounders are low odds lottery tickets no matter who is drafting them...which is exactly my point. The position is not valued. In reality I would say they have "tried" twice Jenkins and Patton- one fail, one incomplete.
Josh Morgan is terrible...he cant be listed as a success.

You put a positive spin on it, but the fact is that of those 6 wr, only 1 is an impact player. The rest are average at best, and can be found on any NFL team.
[ Edited by Niners99 on Oct 10, 2013 at 12:02 PM ]
No, we can't hire a WR coach.
They should just have a webzone poll on which WR to draft and we would do better than Baalke.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Josh Morgan is terrible...he cant be listed as a success.

You put a positive spin on it, but the fact is that of those 6 wr, only 1 is an impact player. The rest are average at best, and can be found on any NFL team.

You are missing the point! Average at best and can be found on any NFL team! But look at where they were drafted! Not saying they are Jerry Rice's but Morgan, for example, is still in the NFL. 6th round pick!

I am not saying they are great, or impact players. What I am saying is very simple. People cannot say we can't draft receivers. The record shows otherwise. The failing is, we have drafted too low for too long. Where are the 2nd round and 3rd round receivers?

This is not a failure of scouting, as some posters have claimed. We just don't draft receivers high enough often enough.
Originally posted by buck:
So far Baalke and Harbaugh have drafted four wide receivers.

2010--Kyle Williams--6th round
2010--Ronald Johnson--6th round
2011--AJ Jenkins--1st round
2012--Quinton Patton--4th round

On clear bust in the first, one bust in the 6th if you can call a 6th round pick a bust.
Kyle Williams--give him whatever grade you want.--I going to give him a C-.
We do not know much about Patton--no grade

Williams was Baalke and Singletary.
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Josh Morgan is terrible...he cant be listed as a success.

You put a positive spin on it, but the fact is that of those 6 wr, only 1 is an impact player. The rest are average at best, and can be found on any NFL team.

You are missing the point! Average at best and can be found on any NFL team! But look at where they were drafted! Not saying they are Jerry Rice's but Morgan, for example, is still in the NFL. 6th round pick!

I am not saying they are great, or impact players. What I am saying is very simple. People cannot say we can't draft receivers. The record shows otherwise. The failing is, we have drafted too low for too long. Where are the 2nd round and 3rd round receivers?

This is not a failure of scouting, as some posters have claimed. We just don't draft receivers high enough often enough.

are you happy with our receivers? thats the question i would ask. I think even if we draft well like you are saying, the team values receivers too low. they need to change that. that is the only glaring weakness on this team right now
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 10,074
Originally posted by btthepunk:
Williams was Baalke and Singletary.


No. Baalke was in charge of the 2010 draft. He was the acting interim general manager at the time of the draft.

The man in charge gets credit and blame for the draft.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by btthepunk:
Williams was Baalke and Singletary.


No. Baalke was in charge of the 2010 draft. He was the acting interim general manager at the time of the draft.

The man in charge gets credit and blame for the draft.

Yeah I was just saying it wasn't Harbaugh. Singletary also had a lot of pull on the draft. See Taylor Mays. Most GM's let the coach have some say too.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 10,074
Originally posted by btthepunk:
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by btthepunk:
Williams was Baalke and Singletary.


No. Baalke was in charge of the 2010 draft. He was the acting interim general manager at the time of the draft.

The man in charge gets credit and blame for the draft.

Yeah I was just saying it wasn't Harbaugh. Singletary also had a lot of pull on the draft. See Taylor Mays. Most GM's let the coach have some say too.


Whoops. I should not have included Harbaugh. My mistake--and a stupid one. Sorry.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by btthepunk:
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by btthepunk:
Williams was Baalke and Singletary.


No. Baalke was in charge of the 2010 draft. He was the acting interim general manager at the time of the draft.

The man in charge gets credit and blame for the draft.

Yeah I was just saying it wasn't Harbaugh. Singletary also had a lot of pull on the draft. See Taylor Mays. Most GM's let the coach have some say too.


Whoops. I should not have included Harbaugh. My mistake--and a stupid one. Sorry.

Get it together man!!
Originally posted by English:
You are missing the point! Average at best and can be found on any NFL team! But look at where they were drafted! Not saying they are Jerry Rice's but Morgan, for example, is still in the NFL. 6th round pick!

I am not saying they are great, or impact players. What I am saying is very simple. People cannot say we can't draft receivers. The record shows otherwise. The failing is, we have drafted too low for too long. Where are the 2nd round and 3rd round receivers?

This is not a failure of scouting, as some posters have claimed. We just don't draft receivers high enough often enough.
Interesting. I had never considered that the 49ers simply didn't draft many wide receivers. However, perhaps their strategy of not drafting receivers is misguided, because they have done a pretty poor job of acquiring WR talent through other avenues (the Boldin trade was very special circumstances, and they really lucked out with that one).

Anyway, I sort of agree with what you're saying: maybe we are too hard on the Baalke regime. One thing you have to remember though is that our history of drafting receivers before Baalke was pretty bad too. Some of these busts are going to stick with fans and be embedded deep in their memories, regardless of which regime it came under... let's look at the history:

2001 - Cedrick Wilson, 6th round -- decent career
2003 - Brandon Lloyd, 4th round -- decent career
2003 - Arnaz Battle, 6th round -- decent caeer
2004 - Rashuan Woods, 1st round - epic bust
2004 - Derrick Hamilton, 3rd round - 0 career catches
2005 - Rasheel Marshall, 5th round - 1 catch, -1 yards in his career
2005 - Marcus Maxwell, 7th round - 1 career catch
2006 - Brandon Williams, 3rd round - 0 career catches
2006 - Delaine Walker, 6th round - gem
2007 - Jason Hill, 3rd round - very uninspiring career, 40 catches in 4 years with SF
2008 - Josh Morgan, 6th round - decent career
2009 - Micheal Crabtree, 1st round - stud
2009 - Kyle Williams, 6th round - decent career
2011 - Ronald Johnson, 6th round - 0 career catches
2012 - A.J. Jenkins, 1st round - epic bust (so far)
2013 - Quinton Patton, 4th round - ????

Totals:
Great players - 1: Crabtree
Good - 2: Lloyd, Walker
Respectable - 6: Wilson, Battle, Morgan, K. Williams
Awful - 8: Hamilton, Marshall, Maxwell, Hill, Johnson, Jenkins, Woods, B. Williams
???? - 1: Patton

Now, I don't know how this would look if you looked at value expectency based on draft position, but that's not a very inspiring list. And the true "whiffs" -- guys like Woods and Jenkins -- really sting.

Again, English, I know you are specifically referring to Baalke-era drafting; and certainly, it's not fair to hold picks from before his time against him. But I do understand why people can assert that the organization as a whole cannot draft receivers. Regardless of who has been in charge, we have had a pretty depressing history in the last 10-15 years.
[ Edited by theduke85 on Oct 10, 2013 at 1:02 PM ]
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 10,074
Originally posted by btthepunk:
Get it together man!!

Sir, yes sir. I will get it together, sir.
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Josh Morgan is terrible...he cant be listed as a success.

You put a positive spin on it, but the fact is that of those 6 wr, only 1 is an impact player. The rest are average at best, and can be found on any NFL team.

You are missing the point! Average at best and can be found on any NFL team! But look at where they were drafted! Not saying they are Jerry Rice's but Morgan, for example, is still in the NFL. 6th round pick!

I am not saying they are great, or impact players. What I am saying is very simple. People cannot say we can't draft receivers. The record shows otherwise. The failing is, we have drafted too low for too long. Where are the 2nd round and 3rd round receivers?

This is not a failure of scouting, as some posters have claimed. We just don't draft receivers high enough often enough.

The reason I see it as a failure, is because our WR corps is terrible, and has been for years now.

Michael Crabtree is the only guy who turned out to be good, and even that took a few years. We are desperately lacking at the WR position, and that cant be ignored. We traded for Boldin, traded for Baldwin, signed Manningham, etc. We just dont produce enough homegrown talent at WR. Its interesting because were so good at that in about every other area. We HAVE to do better than having Kyle Williams as our 2nd best homegrown talent.

Now that we have Kap, it becomes a huge deal if we dont give him receivers who can make plays. He has a cannon arm, but we dont even have anyone who can make that a weapon. We have a bunch of possession receivers playing with a QB who's weak spot is short-to-intermediate passing.

I would LOVE to see us trade for Josh Gordon. He can make full use of Kap's arm, and stretch the field. just to have someone else to command attention from the defense would be huge. If the Browns want a 2nd rounder, itll be well worth it. Just give up the one were getting from KC. You arent going to find a talent like Gordon in the late 2nd anyways.
[ Edited by Niners99 on Oct 10, 2013 at 1:07 PM ]