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"We can't draft wide receivers"

Originally posted by Big_Daddy:
Originally posted by English:
Several new posters have stated in various threads that we, or Baalke, can't draft wide receivers. I hate to see such nonsense become accepted wisdom, so it is time to look at the facts. We have, interestingly, taken one receiver a year for the last six years.

In 2013 we took Quinton Patton in the 4th. Whilst it is too early to properly assess him as a player his attitude appears faultless. Not a high pick and appears promising.

In 2012 we took A J Jenkins in the first. The only bust on this list, he doesn't seem that engaged by the sport. Baalke cleverly finessed him into another 1st rounder, Jon Baldwin who may or may not become a starter. Jury is out here but Jenkins was a bust for us.

Ronald Johnson was taken in 2011 in the 6th. He didn't make it and is now out of football. A shame, but 6th round draft picks who make it onto the roster are a pleasant surprise unless your roster is embarrassingly thin.

Kyle Williams was taken by us in 2010 in the 6th. See the above comments. Despite earning the righteous ire of the zone, though, he is a 6th round pick who is still with us.

Michael Crabtree was taken by us in one of the most exciting first rounds I can remember, in 2009. After a difficult start and despite attracting a lot of zone hatred, he has become the player we thought he could be when we drafted him.

In 2008 we took Josh Morgan in the 6th. He went to Washington when they threw money at him and is, I believe, still starting.

So there you have it. Two 1sts, one 4th and three 6ths. Only one of them is out of football although I guess AJ could get cut next summer. But even allowing for him, bearing in mind the low draft currency expended this is actually a remarkable record. I doubt many other teams could match it.

AJ Jenkins was a bust . Get over it. 1st round picks bust. Receivers seem to bust quite regularly. That is what the draft is. A lottery. But it is factually incorrect to say that we can't draft receivers.

WRONG...

In the last few years during Baalkes reign, it has been unanimously agreed that San Fran had been lacking at receivers for a decade now. So in these last three most recent years, for arguments sake, every announcer/fan had Niners drafting WR at some point in the draft, the higher the better because thats where the talent was. So in these last three years (having crabtree is not enough to say we didn't need a WR, because we did)… what did we do???

WRs that were linked to Niners just by sheer team need and general consensus of player worth--- AND YET WE PASSED ON---- u know we move up and down in the draft we could have gotten any receiver we wanted. We just didnt seem to want any of these guys. What does that tell you? We DONT KNOW HOW TO DRAFT WRs!!!

2011
2---- Torrey Smith, Greg Little, Randall Cobb
3---- Vincent Brown
5---- Denarious Moore!!!!
5---- Jeremy Kerley

2012
2----- Stephen Hill, Alshon Jeffrey, Ryan Broyles, Reuben Randle
3----- Mohammed Sanu, TY Hilton (WHICH WAS OUR F-IN PICK!!!!!!!!!!)
4----- Chris Givens

2013
2----- Justin Hunter (WHICH WAS OUR PICK!!!! AGAIN!!!!), Robert Woods
3----- Terrance Williams, Keenan Allen
5----- Kenny Stills

I'm sure that there's reasons we passed on all of those. but considering our needs, instead of drafting back all the time, you need to take a few stabs when the stable of horses is paltry, at best

Not sure I recall saying, anywhere, that we draft sufficient receivers. Perhaps you can point this out and show me where I am "WRONG"! Actually if you and several other posters had actually read what I said it would have been clear that I consider that in a pass-friendly league we have significantly under invested at the position.

Two 1st round picks in six years isn't bad, but where are the second and third round picks? In this we have been bailed out by sixth round picks, which you would generally expect to disappear or become ST players, actually breaking through. More than once.

Can we draft receivers? Yes. I think that point is proven. Anyone disagreeing clearly doesn't understand or is arguing about a different question.

Do we draft receivers? Ah! Clearly not. The frequency with which we have brought in free agents answers that.

One thing about Trent Baalke. He seems to learn from his mistakes. So here is a prediction for you: at least two receivers drafted next spring, maybe more. At least one of them taken in the first two rounds.
Originally posted by goldstandard333:
Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:
Wow, it seems like every thread in here turns out to be a "Trade for Gordon NOW Thread", no matter what the title says. Smh!

What do you expect? It's our most glaring issue. Generally last year all threads seemed to devolve into Kaep vs. Smith debate. It's what's on everyone's mind. I'm not surprised it bled into a thread about examining our recent history with wide receivers.

You do realize that Gordon is one test away from getting a year suspension right? Would you take that risk and waste a 2nd rd pick for somebody with a track history of substance abuse? Are you one of the fans that complained about Seattle's PED users, and yet you would take Gordon in a heartbeat because its our glaring need? Yes, I agree WR is one of our biggest need, but not for long, reinforcements coming soon if not there's other solution to this problem than trading for the Great Hall of Famer in Gordon, at least in some of you brilliant GM's mind.
Originally posted by English:
Not sure I recall saying, anywhere, that we draft sufficient receivers. Perhaps you can point this out and show me where I am "WRONG"! Actually if you and several other posters had actually read what I said it would have been clear that I consider that in a pass-friendly league we have significantly under invested at the position.

Two 1st round picks in six years isn't bad, but where are the second and third round picks? In this we have been bailed out by sixth round picks, which you would generally expect to disappear or become ST players, actually breaking through. More than once.

Can we draft receivers? Yes. I think that point is proven. Anyone disagreeing clearly doesn't understand or is arguing about a different question.

Do we draft receivers? Ah! Clearly not. The frequency with which we have brought in free agents answers that.

One thing about Trent Baalke. He seems to learn from his mistakes. So here is a prediction for you: at least two receivers drafted next spring, maybe more. At least one of them taken in the first two rounds.


Is not about two 1st round picks in 6 years, eventhough some may argue that wasn't enough. The point is just look at what we've got right now. Think about this for the moment, if John Harbaugh didn't throw a bone to his brother Jim, in other words if we didn't have Boldin, just imagine what kind of situation we would be in. As it stands, it is already bad enough, but without Boldin we might as well have packed up our passing game and just run the ball in every snap.

As to your prediction for the next draft, I certainly hope you are right cos that is what I am hoping for too. But, I am not going to set heavy expectations on it cos something is telling me it might not be as rosy we might expect. I will believe it when I see it.
[ Edited by Rascal on Oct 8, 2013 at 11:15 PM ]
Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:
Originally posted by goldstandard333:
Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:
Wow, it seems like every thread in here turns out to be a "Trade for Gordon NOW Thread", no matter what the title says. Smh!

What do you expect? It's our most glaring issue. Generally last year all threads seemed to devolve into Kaep vs. Smith debate. It's what's on everyone's mind. I'm not surprised it bled into a thread about examining our recent history with wide receivers.

You do realize that Gordon is one test away from getting a year suspension right? Would you take that risk and waste a 2nd rd pick for somebody with a track history of substance abuse? Are you one of the fans that complained about Seattle's PED users, and yet you would take Gordon in a heartbeat because its our glaring need? Yes, I agree WR is one of our biggest need, but not for long, reinforcements coming soon if not there's other solution to this problem than trading for the Great Hall of Famer in Gordon, at least in some of you brilliant GM's mind.

PED's are different than a guy with a Codeine problem. A change of scenery and a winning attitude may be just what he needs.

As has been mentioned we have no clue what we have returning at WR. We have Manningham coming back to practice, but we have no clue what he will look like, and who knows if or when crabtree will be back and if he does come back if he will be 100%.

Add to that us pretty much only having Crabtree, Patton and Baldwin under contract at WR in 2014, and Gordon makes a lot of sense.

Gordon is ready NOW. He is putting up good numbers right now, and if we can add him to our squad for a second, then yes i would do that in a heartbeat.

BTW, our GM obviously considered trading for Gordon, so its not like we are just discussing trading for him out of thin air.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by thl408:
Is that true? I always thought defensive line had the highest bust percentage. I have no idea what the truth is regarding what is the highest 1st round bust position.

It's WR.

Can you cite a source stating that?

I found this. I don't fully grasp the AV but it's a student Harvard study so...

http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2012/04/09/analyzing-the-nfl-draft-the-safest-positions-to-target-in-the-first-round/

Long article short: They use a formula that calculates a player's draft position versus how productive they have been. Productive means being in the league, better to be a starter.
In the 1st round:
Safest picks 1-16: LB, OL
Riskiest picks 1-16: QB, RB

Safest 17-32: OL, DL (whoops I thought DL was risky in my previous post)
Riskiest 17-32: QB, LB

WR was right in the middle in both parts of the 1st round. Neither risky nor safe.
[ Edited by thl408 on Oct 8, 2013 at 10:51 PM ]
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Someone go page Rascal... he's more than ready to take over this thread.



What a beautiful cover design. Love it.

First off, to the mods, posts like that should be banned based on the forum rules. Is simply childish. So, where are the mods now ?

But, hey NickSh49, ironically I am yet to make a single post on this thread, just look around you, since you have so much free time in your hands, why don't you design another 10, 15, 20 covers for the other posters who have come out to speak the truth.

It is what it is, the 49ers have done a less than stellar job on WRs to put it mildly. The writing or the facts are on the wall, is up to you whether you wish to ignore or accept it.

Dude, did I attack you? Nope. No warning necessary then.

You like talking about receivers. I figured you'd probably want to come in here and talk about receivers. Oh snap. I was right.

So calm the f- down and Google-image-search the word "Rascal." I have a lot of better things to do that Photoshop your name into things. Just because I mention your name and post a funny picture from a Disney movie doesn't mean I'm making a "childish" personal attack on you. It just means I was thinking of you and thought I'd make a funny. It wasn't even posted in malice.

So please... relax.
[ Edited by NickSh49 on Oct 9, 2013 at 12:08 AM ]
Since they are still looking for another WR, I guess Baldwin isn't the answer either. Garbage in, garbage out.
Originally posted by HALCIONDAZE:
Since they are still looking for another WR, I guess Baldwin isn't the answer either. Garbage in, garbage out.

I doubt they have given up on Baldwin after two games.
I have to agree with the negative side. However when you look at the talent other teams find at the position in all rounds of the draft. look at the Giants or rams etc. I think we are constantly looking for bargains and unwilling to reach at this position. A better discussion would be to look at guys we have passed on at the position.
Originally posted by boast:
Baalkexcuses

Englishexcuses
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by HALCIONDAZE:
Since they are still looking for another WR, I guess Baldwin isn't the answer either. Garbage in, garbage out.

I doubt they have given up on Baldwin after two games.

That catch he made out of bounds was actually quite nice. A tad more in the field of play and he would have had something that counted.

Right now, the biggest problem with the passing game is kaepernick and his tentative play and his trust with people not named VD and anquan. Once he starts relaxing and playing, things will get better.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Is not about two 1st round picks in 6 years, eventhough some may argue that wasn't enough. The point is just look at what we've got right now. Think about this for the moment, if John Harbaugh didn't throw a bone to his brother Jim, in other words if we didn't have Boldin, just imagine what kind of situation we would be in. As it stands, it is already bad enough, but without Boldin we might as well have packed up our passing game and just run the ball in every snap.

As to your prediction for the next draft, I certainly hope you are right cos that is what I am hoping for too. But, I am not going to set heavy expectations on it cos something is telling me it might not be as rosy we might expect. I will believe it when I see it.

First off we got Boldin prior to the draft. We had no idea Crabtree would tear his Achilles in practice. So we had a legit WR corps. There was no need to take a gamble draft a WR early in this years draft.

Now if the Boldin trade happened post draft then you have a point.

You can't carry 20 recievers.
Originally posted by kingairta:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Is not about two 1st round picks in 6 years, eventhough some may argue that wasn't enough. The point is just look at what we've got right now. Think about this for the moment, if John Harbaugh didn't throw a bone to his brother Jim, in other words if we didn't have Boldin, just imagine what kind of situation we would be in. As it stands, it is already bad enough, but without Boldin we might as well have packed up our passing game and just run the ball in every snap.

As to your prediction for the next draft, I certainly hope you are right cos that is what I am hoping for too. But, I am not going to set heavy expectations on it cos something is telling me it might not be as rosy we might expect. I will believe it when I see it.

First off we got Boldin prior to the draft. We had no idea Crabtree would tear his Achilles in practice. So we had a legit WR corps. There was no need to take a gamble draft a WR early in this years draft.

Now if the Boldin trade happened post draft then you have a point.

You can't carry 20 recievers.

You should be able to. Just after you turn off injuries in the settings.
Originally posted by darkknight49:
You should be able to. Just after you turn off injuries in the settings.

honestly after Baalke does the draft, why doesn't he go through all the rookies to find out their ratings then quit back to the main menu without saving his franchise and redo the draft knowing how good everyone actually is?
I'm predicting Marques lee in the first. Everyone should tweet Jed lol bring in gordon