There are 151 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

2013 - Week 5: Thoughts after rewatching the game...

My two thoughts about the Offense after rewatching this game were:

1. Kaep made some tight, aggressive throws in the first drive (the one to Boldin was downright dangerous as it went through Joseph's hands before it reached him) to go 14-0, and after 21-0 he went into Alex Smith mode and didn't risk anything. The throw to VD was with him wide open and was the obvious one. A lot of his incompletions were just ultra-safe low percentage throws that could not be picked off. I have no problems with the way he played: it minimised injury risk for him and his receivers, and allowed us to babysit what was in the end an easy game without giving the opposition any chance to come back through a silly turnover. This is a great D we played after all and we hang 27 points on it (granted - 13 of those were on short fields, while the pick-6 of course had nothing to do with the O).

2. Frank is such a joy to watch. Forget the rushing, although the bit were he dragged about 5 defenders with him to the 1-yard line just before Dixon scored the third TD was so cool. It was his blocking downfield and his blitz pick-ups that were a thing of beauty. I'm one of those who thinks "why don't we use Hunter more often?", and then I see Frank throw a perfect block and shut up
[ Edited by paulk205 on Oct 8, 2013 at 11:28 AM ]
Originally posted by 49erphan:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by verb1der:
I rewatched the Houston game last night. Anyone notice that every single run Gore had was from Kaep under center? I wonder if that was a coincidence.

This is what I and others have been asking for a while now... and if were going to be in the pistol/read option, that we have someone more shiftier back there like Hunter or James.

now the only thing I want us to is use some play action here and there on 1st and 2nd downs.... I hate when we go 2-3 series in a row where its run run pass..run run pass. A few bootleg keepers to Kap could also open things up for Gore up the middle.

I agree. I think Gore is way more comfortable running it that way. I expect them to continue it vs the Cards and then set up some huge play action passes, maybe to Baldwin!

I'm pretty sure they used the pistol/read option once (that I can remember) in the Houston game and Hunter got about 10 or 12 yards on the play.

You're right, I remember that play clearly. The DE played Kaep, and opened a huge hole for Hunter.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Pass protection has stunk recently and so has the passing game. No doubt about that.

I'm going to hold off judging anyone until we get our WRs healthy. The truth is, nobody really knows what the primary problem is. We'll have a better idea later in the season when we get healthy.

Playcalling and scheme was obviously hurting our running game. At least they got that fixed.

I'm not sure I would say the playcalling and scheme have gotten better.

I would say the formation selection has become more credible, because Roman knows he will be fired if he continues to call 6 players in the backfield for 1.3 yards per play.

SO that's been dialed down.

But too often I don't like the flow, the timing, the down-yard appropriateness of our play sequencing.

I can't put my finger on it. We still look disjointed. We don't have any bread and butter 5 yard sure thing plays that we can go to when its 2 and 5 or 3 and 5.

We don't manage our play selection on first down as if we have 3 downs to gain 10 yards. It looks like we are trying to get the most yards we can, always, rather than set up a high percentage 3 or 4 yard play on first so we have run/pass options on 2 and 6, or whatever.

I am not sure we are improving significantly there. Although we have dropped some stinker plays that the league is now prepared for, I grant you that.

I do agree with your observations here.

Actually I feel that the Niners have been a more disjointed and less fluid offense ever since CK has been at QB. At first I took that to be his being dumped into the offense on short notice. But after a full off-season this should have been smoothed out. Hasn't looked that way to me yet. Instead, with the injuries and other exposed shortcomings, the offense has looked even less explosive than it used to be. To the point that it can in no way be considered among the elite right now.

So while the point has been made that the team is not that far off the top of the NFC heap, it's in a logjam in the middle and it's not a sure thing that it'll be able to ascend with only half of the team playing at an elite level.

It seems that a lot of folks are assuming that Crabtree comes in (to a lesser extent Manningham) and immediately picks up where he left off. Firstly, best case scenario, he only returns late November and there's no guarantee that the team will immediately sync into a smooth operating machine.

It's going to be tricky. Unexpected losses can occur, especially if the offense lacks recuperative capability. Who would have thought that Atlanta would lose to the JETS, for example! And even Atlanta's offense looks better than the Niners' right now.
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by verb1der:
I rewatched the Houston game last night. Anyone notice that every single run Gore had was from Kaep under center? I wonder if that was a coincidence.

This is what I and others have been asking for a while now... and if were going to be in the pistol/read option, that we have someone more shiftier back there like Hunter or James.

now the only thing I want us to is use some play action here and there on 1st and 2nd downs.... I hate when we go 2-3 series in a row where its run run pass..run run pass. A few bootleg keepers to Kap could also open things up for Gore up the middle.

I agree. I think Gore is way more comfortable running it that way. I expect them to continue it vs the Cards and then set up some huge play action passes, maybe to Baldwin!

Yeah there is no doubt Gore is more comfortable running from the I where he is set up further behind the line of scrimmage and is able to have more time as he receives the handoff to pick which gap he wants to run through, with a full head of steam. This offensive line is also better when it is executing run plays with pulling guards combined with misdirection.

Perhaps someone can shed light on why it is that they can't pull and trap out of the pistol. It seems from the pistol, there is just straight ahead blocking, no pulling guards. I could be wrong here.
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by 49erphan:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by verb1der:
I rewatched the Houston game last night. Anyone notice that every single run Gore had was from Kaep under center? I wonder if that was a coincidence.

This is what I and others have been asking for a while now... and if were going to be in the pistol/read option, that we have someone more shiftier back there like Hunter or James.

now the only thing I want us to is use some play action here and there on 1st and 2nd downs.... I hate when we go 2-3 series in a row where its run run pass..run run pass. A few bootleg keepers to Kap could also open things up for Gore up the middle.

I agree. I think Gore is way more comfortable running it that way. I expect them to continue it vs the Cards and then set up some huge play action passes, maybe to Baldwin!

I'm pretty sure they used the pistol/read option once (that I can remember) in the Houston game and Hunter got about 10 or 12 yards on the play.

You're right, I remember that play clearly. The DE played Kaep, and opened a huge hole for Hunter.

I remember that play too. One of the few times the read option dive play looked good this season. It's true that the DE played Kap, but that's not why there was a huge hole for Hunter to run through. It was the fault of one of the inside LBs. He bit on the QB keeper and left his inside assignment. It was the LB with the long hair. That essentially left two guys guarding the QB keeper.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by verb1der:
I rewatched the Houston game last night. Anyone notice that every single run Gore had was from Kaep under center? I wonder if that was a coincidence.

This is what I and others have been asking for a while now... and if were going to be in the pistol/read option, that we have someone more shiftier back there like Hunter or James.

now the only thing I want us to is use some play action here and there on 1st and 2nd downs.... I hate when we go 2-3 series in a row where its run run pass..run run pass. A few bootleg keepers to Kap could also open things up for Gore up the middle.

I agree. I think Gore is way more comfortable running it that way. I expect them to continue it vs the Cards and then set up some huge play action passes, maybe to Baldwin!

Yeah there is no doubt Gore is more comfortable running from the I where he is set up further behind the line of scrimmage and is able to have more time as he receives the handoff to pick which gap he wants to run through, with a full head of steam. This offensive line is also better when it is executing run plays with pulling guards combined with misdirection.

Perhaps someone can shed light on why it is that they can't pull and trap out of the pistol. It seems from the pistol, there is just straight ahead blocking, no pulling guards. I could be wrong here.

Now I'm no expert. But from what I see, the object of the pistol formation is to make the defense hesitate at the point of attack because there are multiple options in the backfield. Running a trap or pulling a guard just gives the play away.
Did it look to anyone else like Gore was making an extra effort to secure the ball when he took off on the long runs?
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Did it look to anyone else like Gore was making an extra effort to secure the ball when he took off on the long runs?

Noticed it too. He's done a pretty good job of that during his career. He knows the home run speed isn't there, like he expects to be tackled at some point lol.
[ Edited by SofaKing on Oct 8, 2013 at 11:49 AM ]
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Did it look to anyone else like Gore was making an extra effort to secure the ball when he took off on the long runs?


Ya...especially after last week.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Did it look to anyone else like Gore was making an extra effort to secure the ball when he took off on the long runs?


Ya...especially after last week.

after a few weeks he will go back to normal
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Did it look to anyone else like Gore was making an extra effort to secure the ball when he took off on the long runs?


Ya...especially after last week.

after a few weeks he will go back to normal

I feel like that is his normal. He protected the ball and did an amazing job of keeping his feet moving and legs churning to pick up chunks of 5-10 yards numerous times after being hit or wrapped up. I was extremely impressed this Sunday.

Would love to see Hunter get more read-option carries too, as he looked excellent on them.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Oct 8, 2013 at 12:07 PM ]
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by 49erphan:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by verb1der:
I rewatched the Houston game last night. Anyone notice that every single run Gore had was from Kaep under center? I wonder if that was a coincidence.

This is what I and others have been asking for a while now... and if were going to be in the pistol/read option, that we have someone more shiftier back there like Hunter or James.

now the only thing I want us to is use some play action here and there on 1st and 2nd downs.... I hate when we go 2-3 series in a row where its run run pass..run run pass. A few bootleg keepers to Kap could also open things up for Gore up the middle.

I agree. I think Gore is way more comfortable running it that way. I expect them to continue it vs the Cards and then set up some huge play action passes, maybe to Baldwin!

I'm pretty sure they used the pistol/read option once (that I can remember) in the Houston game and Hunter got about 10 or 12 yards on the play.

You're right, I remember that play clearly. The DE played Kaep, and opened a huge hole for Hunter.

I remember that play too. One of the few times the read option dive play looked good this season. It's true that the DE played Kap, but that's not why there was a huge hole for Hunter to run through. It was the fault of one of the inside LBs. He bit on the QB keeper and left his inside assignment. It was the LB with the long hair. That essentially left two guys guarding the QB keeper.


I mispoke a bit. It appears the LB in question was in man coverage on VD and VD took him out of the play by going wide.

Q2 12:52 1st & 10
This play succeeds because the entire Oline flows to the right at the snap. This causes all the HOU LBs to flow along, while the hole that opens up is to the left of the formation. Below is the moment before the snap. Watt (blue) will take away the QB keeper. By play design, VD will run left to take his man (red) out of the play.




Below: This is a huge hole for Hunter to run through. Notice the 2 interior LBs went in the wrong direction of where the play is supposed to go (hard to see in the still, without seeing the whole play). Staley and Goodwin now have proper positioning to block the interior LBs and maintain that huge hole for Hunter. The LB in red is completely out of position to make a play on Hunter until it's too late.


Misdirection is a key aspect in the 49er run game. Using misdirection, making any member of the defensive front 7 hesitate, or step in the wrong direction, is all it takes to be behind the play. Collinsworth mentioned during the telecast, paraphrasing:"If you're playing the 49ers and you're unblocked, get ready to get smacked upside the earhole."
Originally posted by verb1der:
Now I'm no expert. But from what I see, the object of the pistol formation is to make the defense hesitate at the point of attack because there are multiple options in the backfield. Running a trap or pulling a guard just gives the play away.

Great point about how a pulling guard can give away the point of attack. Yet, with the physicality of the Oline, it seems that opponents can't do anything about it anyway. I love having Iupati pull with Miller right behind him. That's probably the best combination of guard/fullback blocking in the NFL. Then you factor in that when Iupati pulls, he's going to the right side where Boone and ADavis are mauling their respective one on ones (except if that blocking assignment is JJWatt).

This Oline is in a groove right now. I can't wait to see how they handle the Cards who have a good rush defense and CAR who also have a formidable DL. Those are the only two rush defenses I fear on the 49ers schedule. Even SEA doesn't scare me provided the 49ers come into that game stressing the run.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
NinerBuff, I wouldn't look pass the Panthers...they should have beat the Seahawks, but fumbled in the end.

it was a close game for a reason....their defense was the ONLY defense I've ever seen stay disciplined and close in on Wilson in the pocket. 9ers, Texans & the Colts defenses have allowed Wilson to get out of the pocket to make plays.

They have a really good front seven..so much so that the were fine with trading away Jon Beason (who the east coast bias media for years tried to say was as good if not better than Willis)

also, don't look past the Falcons...if they get their s**t together, they will cause trouble for many teams as the season goes on...hopefully they beat the Saints, to help us out.

Homie, the Falcons just list Julio and their oline is really bad. They will be lucky to get 8 wins.

I just read that when I got to work... man, visited their forums and found this post... I feel bad, but did get a chuckle.

redoing schedule predictions now

L

L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L

does that = 1-15?
This is my favorite play of the HOU game and it incorporates so many key aspects of the 49er run game.

Notice the unbalanced formation of the 49ers with 2 TEs to the left, plus the FB lined up towards the left. HOU must accommadate for this by placing extra bodies to that side of the line. This play is going to the weak side - misdirection in formation. Iupati (yellow) will pull with Miller following behind. That's all the 'fancy' this play has to offer. Everything else is power.



Below: Miller is about to win his block. Everyone else involved at the point of attack wins their block (ADavis, Boone, Iupati). Gore for 26 yards.