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2013 - Week 5: Thoughts after rewatching the game...

Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:
Josh Gordon is not worth a 2nd rd pick. Team already has enough trouble with Aldon Smith.

Yeah one more failed test and he's done for a season. I could hear the complaining now if that happened with us.
Originally posted by verb1der:
I rewatched the Houston game last night. Anyone notice that every single run Gore had was from Kaep under center? I wonder if that was a coincidence.

This is what I and others have been asking for a while now... and if were going to be in the pistol/read option, that we have someone more shiftier back there like Hunter or James.

now the only thing I want us to is use some play action here and there on 1st and 2nd downs.... I hate when we go 2-3 series in a row where its run run pass..run run pass. A few bootleg keepers to Kap could also open things up for Gore up the middle.
NinerBuff, I wouldn't look pass the Panthers...they should have beat the Seahawks, but fumbled in the end.

it was a close game for a reason....their defense was the ONLY defense I've ever seen stay disciplined and close in on Wilson in the pocket. 9ers, Texans & the Colts defenses have allowed Wilson to get out of the pocket to make plays.

They have a really good front seven..so much so that the were fine with trading away Jon Beason (who the east coast bias media for years tried to say was as good if not better than Willis)

also, don't look past the Falcons...if they get their s**t together, they will cause trouble for many teams as the season goes on...hopefully they beat the Saints, to help us out.
[ Edited by Afrikan on Oct 8, 2013 at 10:29 AM ]
Originally posted by Hopper:
Yeah one more failed test and he's done for a season. I could hear the complaining now if that happened with us.

Maybe you could get him and send him to join Aldon in rehab
Originally posted by 9erReign:
Originally posted by Eugene88:
Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:
Dont forget the Texans D is pretty stout and were able to keep Kap at bay (similar to how they held Wilson in check last week). Opponents are taking advantage of the Niners lack of a receiver corps and a hurt VD.

Yeah it looked like they got consistent pressure on Kap, but the cameras never seemed to show if anyone actually got open or not. All they seemed to do was close-ups of JJ Watt's face and pan back to Matt Schaub's painful expressions. Good lord that is a broken man.

Guys are constantly open, especially Vernon. NFL is a timing league, you have to throw the ball BEFORE the guy is open. Kap can't do that yet. He basically looks like Alex in years 2-5.

Hard to know if he just doesn't trust anyone other than Boldin or if he doesn't know where other players are supposed to be. In reviewing the game, there were times when he only looked toward double covered Boldin even though Baldwin was in single coverage on the opposite side. Probably a little of both.
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by verb1der:
I rewatched the Houston game last night. Anyone notice that every single run Gore had was from Kaep under center? I wonder if that was a coincidence.

This is what I and others have been asking for a while now... and if were going to be in the pistol/read option, that we have someone more shiftier back there like Hunter or James.

now the only thing I want us to is use some play action here and there on 1st and 2nd downs.... I hate when we go 2-3 series in a row where its run run pass..run run pass. A few bootleg keepers to Kap could also open things up for Gore up the middle.

I agree. I think Gore is way more comfortable running it that way. I expect them to continue it vs the Cards and then set up some huge play action passes, maybe to Baldwin!
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,753
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Gordon is a tough call, the guy has tons of talent, but what if he decides to party with Aldon after a game? We really could use the guy but he could be a lot of trouble. Maybe the idea of playing on a contending team would help keep him focused. It is something for the front office to consider carefully.

Who really knows?

Getting sent to a player-off caliber team might enable Gordon to think he does not have any problems.

If he violates the substance rules, he is out for a minimum of a year.

I would only trade for him if there were a clause that returned our pick if Gordon is suspended before the 2014 draft. Even with such a clause I would not give up a second pick for him.

The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of a trade for him.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Gordon is a tough call, the guy has tons of talent, but what if he decides to party with Aldon after a game? We really could use the guy but he could be a lot of trouble. Maybe the idea of playing on a contending team would help keep him focused. It is something for the front office to consider carefully.

Who really knows?

Getting sent to a player-off caliber team might enable Gordon to think he does not have any problems.

If he violates the substance rules, he is out for a minimum of a year.

I would only trade for him if there were a clause that returned our pick if Gordon is suspended before the 2014 draft. Even with such a clause I would not give up a second pick for him.

The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of a trade for him.

Essentially, if I'm the 49ers, I only trade a conditional draft pick for him if I do it.

The safest trade for us would be a conditional 2015 pick. But if it were a 2014 pick, I'd make it at the highest, a 4th rounder than could turn into a 3rd if he stays out of trouble til the 2014 draft.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Oct 8, 2013 at 10:48 AM ]
Originally posted by Afrikan:
NinerBuff, I wouldn't look pass the Panthers...they should have beat the Seahawks, but fumbled in the end.

it was a close game for a reason....their defense was the ONLY defense I've ever seen stay disciplined and close in on Wilson in the pocket. 9ers, Texans & the Colts defenses have allowed Wilson to get out of the pocket to make plays.

They have a really good front seven..so much so that the were fine with trading away Jon Beason (who the east coast bias media for years tried to say was as good if not better than Willis)

also, don't look past the Falcons...if they get their s**t together, they will cause trouble for many teams as the season goes on...hopefully they beat the Saints, to help us out.

Homie, the Falcons just list Julio and their oline is really bad. They will be lucky to get 8 wins.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
I'm not sure I would say the playcalling and scheme have gotten better.

I would say the formation selection has become more credible, because Roman knows he will be fired if he continues to call 6 players in the backfield for 1.3 yards per play.

SO that's been dialed down.

But too often I don't like the flow, the timing, the down-yard appropriateness of our play sequencing.

I can't put my finger on it. We still look disjointed. We don't have any bread and butter 5 yard sure thing plays that we can go to when its 2 and 5 or 3 and 5.

We don't manage our play selection on first down as if we have 3 downs to gain 10 yards. It looks like we are trying to get the most yards we can, always, rather than set up a high percentage 3 or 4 yard play on first so we have run/pass options on 2 and 6, or whatever.

I am not sure we are improving significantly there. Although we have dropped some stinker plays that the league is now prepared for, I grant you that.
I agree with much of what you are saying here.

IMO, CK would look a lot more comfortable if he knew there was always going to be a safety valve in the short zones if a blitz came quickly. Much of the time there are two TEs in the game, both set to block, and two WRs on routes. With only two options, and sometimes a TE working on medium routes, it doesn't give Kaepernick that key short outlet.

I just don't understand why HaRo does not give CK more options on passing plays. One thing that drives me crazy is the idea that Jon Baldwin does not know the offense and therefore he gets little run. The guy spent two years in the league and caught 41 passes from some of the worst QBs in football. He also spent the entire off-season learning Andy Reid's offense. Reid's route tree is pretty basic stuff. He has made some good catches on some less-than-perfect throws since he has been here. The first play Sunday where he went high to catch an overthrown ball was good stuff. Unfortunately the ball was thrown so far outside he couldn't come down in bounds, but at least he showed what he can do if given a chance. McDonald also seems underutilized. He could be that automatic check down guy that frees VD for deeper runs. More options will help Kaep gain confidence.
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by verb1der:
I rewatched the Houston game last night. Anyone notice that every single run Gore had was from Kaep under center? I wonder if that was a coincidence.

This is what I and others have been asking for a while now... and if were going to be in the pistol/read option, that we have someone more shiftier back there like Hunter or James.

now the only thing I want us to is use some play action here and there on 1st and 2nd downs.... I hate when we go 2-3 series in a row where its run run pass..run run pass. A few bootleg keepers to Kap could also open things up for Gore up the middle.

I agree. I think Gore is way more comfortable running it that way. I expect them to continue it vs the Cards and then set up some huge play action passes, maybe to Baldwin!

I'm pretty sure they used the pistol/read option once (that I can remember) in the Houston game and Hunter got about 10 or 12 yards on the play.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
NinerBuff, I wouldn't look pass the Panthers...they should have beat the Seahawks, but fumbled in the end.

it was a close game for a reason....their defense was the ONLY defense I've ever seen stay disciplined and close in on Wilson in the pocket. 9ers, Texans & the Colts defenses have allowed Wilson to get out of the pocket to make plays.

They have a really good front seven..so much so that the were fine with trading away Jon Beason (who the east coast bias media for years tried to say was as good if not better than Willis)

also, don't look past the Falcons...if they get their s**t together, they will cause trouble for many teams as the season goes on...hopefully they beat the Saints, to help us out.

Homie, the Falcons just list Julio and their oline is really bad. They will be lucky to get 8 wins.

I see the Panthers as being a tough team at home, but a lousy team on the road. And we have them at home.
Originally posted by dj43:
I agree with much of what you are saying here.

IMO, CK would look a lot more comfortable if he knew there was always going to be a safety valve in the short zones if a blitz came quickly. Much of the time there are two TEs in the game, both set to block, and two WRs on routes. With only two options, and sometimes a TE working on medium routes, it doesn't give Kaepernick that key short outlet.

I just don't understand why HaRo does not give CK more options on passing plays. One thing that drives me crazy is the idea that Jon Baldwin does not know the offense and therefore he gets little run. The guy spent two years in the league and caught 41 passes from some of the worst QBs in football. He also spent the entire off-season learning Andy Reid's offense. Reid's route tree is pretty basic stuff. He has made some good catches on some less-than-perfect throws since he has been here. The first play Sunday where he went high to catch an overthrown ball was good stuff. Unfortunately the ball was thrown so far outside he couldn't come down in bounds, but at least he showed what he can do if given a chance. McDonald also seems underutilized. He could be that automatic check down guy that frees VD for deeper runs. More options will help Kaep gain confidence.
+1
Add to that list LaMichael James who should be catching passes out of the backfield.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
It's risky, but I'm coming around to this. Baalke cannot identify latent wr talent in the draft to save his life. Gordon looks like a special talent with skills the Niners don't have even with all their receiver fully healthy. But why would the Browns let him go? Not unless they received crazy remuneration. They'll not get that from the Niners. But if the Niners could pull it off . . .

not worth it. a loose cannon who is not worth one of our second round picks. the best they would get from me is a fourth. i do not like his issues. I do understand the concern with our current crop of wide outs and I do not I am taking the philosophy that I am "hoping" mario will be fine but still this guy....


Yep. A risk/reward thing for the Niners to consider. Doubt that it happens. I'm sure that the Niners offer wouldn't make it worthwhile for the Browns.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by NCommand:
^^^ Nice job NinerBuff. You basically summed it up well nicely! Let's get a nice 3-game win streak going here and roll wit it throughout.

there is a big part of me that wants to say..... you are assuming roman is capable of calling three good games in a row,,,,, however for the sake of a possible derailment of this thread, i will restrain myself

I agree CC, a lot will depend on Roman's play calling...

I expect a shift towards the passing game on Sunday, as the Cards have a stout run defense, but give up lots of yardage through the air. I think Kaep has actually looked pretty good (stats not withstanding) the last few weeks, and is poised for a big game.

Any word on Patton? Is our WR corp still only Boldin and Williams for this game?