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Can someone explain this to me??

Oh lord, the team releases a 3rd string QB project and suddenly the team can't manage it's roster.
Originally posted by Disp:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Finally, a nice intelligent post...a post of reason; someone with an actual thought of their own instead of the same old, "well, since the FO thought it best, I'm good with it too." So far, not a single move we have made has worked in our favor (so far)? 2012 draft? Obviously, even the greatest FO of all time makes mistakes. Teams are obviously, literally, watching every personnel move we make and jumping on them, putting these moves even more under a microscope.

What a load of hyperbole. How about the entire 2011 draft class? Eric Reid? Alex Smith for 2 2'nd picks? Glenn Dorsey? Jenkins for Baldwin? Not resigning Jean Francois, Walker, Sopoaga, Goldson (all who have done jack other than Goldson killing his team with penalties)

Oh hey look, there's Anquan Boldin.

How can any person say that not a single move this regime has made has worked in our favor? My mind is actually exploding right now with how little sense that makes.

If you knew me, follow my threads and posts, you'll see I always give cfredit where credit is due. I have agreed to many MANY of the FO moves over the years but that doesn't mean they don't make mistakes or poor decisions at times either. What erks me is the posters who have no thoughts of their own and just agree with every move...b/c the FO made that move. I merely used 2012 draft as an example of how our FO does makes mistakes...and sometimes a lot of them. Could that be the case recently with all these personnel examples? Perhaps...just keep an open mind to the possibility that Seattle and Kansas City may have gotten the better end of the deals here and that we are scrambling to bring players in off the streets (Cunningham) in hopes they pan out eventually. That said, I do also like the point that some of these moves may end up being moot points b/c we virtually, have an entire team that will be coming back after week 6 (hopeful) and we'll make even more roster moves then.
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 2, 2013 at 4:05 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by midrdan:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
A show of hands...if you have ever been paid to make personnel decisions in the NFL please speak right up.

My hand isn't raised, but to suggest that the people in the front office are the best qualified to make personnel decisions simply because they work in the front office is a circular argument. There are tons of individuals that have made glaring, no brainer mistakes with personnel and draft decisions.

I will only address the B.J. Daniels move here because, to me, it is the one that has the biggest potential to backfire. Yes, B.J. Daniels can only be evaluated on his preseason showing. The guy was a 7th round pick that was mobile, moved the offense, and made plays in the fourth quarter. There was no compelling reason to let him go in exchange for a guy like John Skelton and many reasons to keep him even if, as some posters have suggested, he was a problem in the locker room (very doubtful - the kid is a 7th round backup that had no issues of "me first" coming out of college).

1. It is way too soon to say that he won't develop into a legitimate QB. Again, he played well in the opportunities given to him.

2. Even supposing that we had no plans of ever making him the No. 2, teams value QB really high. Are you telling me that with another strong preseason showing that Daniels would not have garnered trade interest? He seemed like the perfect player to turn into a higher draft pick than what was spent on him.

3. There is little financial impact to keeping him.

4. His mobility should have been an asset in practice in preparing for other mobile QBs.

If the team is going to release a guy like that I think they owe it to the fan base to provide a little more explanation than "We really like Skelton and its unfortunate B.J. had to go, we thank him for his contributions, etc."

Finally, a nice intelligent post...a post of reason; someone with an actual thought of their own instead of the same old, "well, since the FO thought it best, I'm good with it too." So far, not a single move we have made has worked in our favor (so far)? 2012 draft? Obviously, even the greatest FO of all time makes mistakes. Teams are obviously, literally, watching every personnel move we make and jumping on them, putting these moves even more under a microscope.

I don't understand the ratoionale that we're "stockpiling picks" or "we're developing them for the future" either. Last year we couldn't GIVE our picks away. And who the hell wants a late 7th anyways? Developing for the future? You mean like Cam Johnson who we gave away for a late 7th? Haralson, cool...that clearly was a move for salary cap AND to get him on a team where he could start; win-win. We still don't have a real NT, OT or pure FB should Miller get hurt (and he's been hit pretty hard a few times already). I'm happy that Lockette, Cooper, Gray, Hawkins, etc. all got picked up as well...with Lockette, we got Baldwin who's taken a while to learn the playbook; we hope he starts to shine. We're still waiting for Harper to be activted. Obviously we'd all feel more comfortable with Hawkins returning kicks for us and perhaps, in the slot as well. Gray might have been a good fit for us in the H-back role and Cooper is exactly what this team needed....young, 6'2" 192 CB who I highlighted during pre season, looked good and just needed some more time (guess I was wrong on the "time"part).

But to stay in context, I don't care what they do elsewhere; all IMHO, would be good fits for us...right now AND in the future. Most would have been active on ST either way (Johnson - punt blocker and coverage and pass rush specialist, Hawkins - slot and P/KO returner, Lockette - gunner and maybe the X and Z, maybe Gray and Cooper).

Anyhow, not happy with many of these moves but that's OK. We'll just have to see how everything pans out down the road. Perhaps we can revisit this thread at the end of the year for perspective.

Go Niners!


Good post!
  • cciowa
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when we wake up in the morning, there will be no new niners stadium, there will be no niner team, there will be no webzone. everything we know will cease to exist due to the fact we let a third string project go. we let bj go and our coach is suddenly a moron . we got a nice linebacker to more than fill any hole created by johnson and haralson. the only complaint i have is i wish we would have signed a d lineman.
Originally posted by buck:
Let's look at some of the recent roster cuts that have been criticized

1. Lavelle Hawkins

Chargers signed WR Lavelle Hawkins after Malcolm Floyd was hurt. He has not played a game yet.

2. BJ Daniels

Daniels was released by 49ers. He was picked up off waivers by Seattle. He has not played a game yet.

3. Parys Haralson

Has played in 4 games and started 2. He has 2 solo tackles, 3 assists and 1 sack.

4. Cam Johnson

Johnson has played in four games for the Colts. He has 1 solo tackle.

5. Marcus Cooper

Has played in four games and he has started 1. He has 1 pass defended and 4 tackles. He has played well on special teams.

6. Brandon Jacobs

Jacobs has played in three games. He has rushed 11 times for 11 yards. Has one reception for 5 yards.


I am sure I missed somebody.

So, far it looks like Baalke made a mistake by not keeping Marcus Cooper.

Hawkins and Daniels have not played in a game yet this year.

The trades for Johnson and Haralson do not seem to be mistakes.

Jacobs has done next to nothing in New York.

Please delete Brandon Jacobs. LOL. Who wanted him back?

To be fair, players need time to adjust (minus Cooper, apparently) to their new teams, playbooks and packages. Look at us...we haven't even activated Harper, Baldwin finally got in a game and had a couple balls thrown to him, Owen was cut beore he even got a playbook, its taken a rehab player to get Skuta and Lemonier a snap, etc. Had the aforementioned players stayed with us, they COULD be excelling on ST at least while developing and would provide valuable depth at positions we suddenly need instead of bringing in players off the streets and starting from ground zero all over again.
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 2, 2013 at 4:15 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Disp:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Finally, a nice intelligent post...a post of reason; someone with an actual thought of their own instead of the same old, "well, since the FO thought it best, I'm good with it too." So far, not a single move we have made has worked in our favor (so far)? 2012 draft? Obviously, even the greatest FO of all time makes mistakes. Teams are obviously, literally, watching every personnel move we make and jumping on them, putting these moves even more under a microscope.

What a load of hyperbole. How about the entire 2011 draft class? Eric Reid? Alex Smith for 2 2'nd picks? Glenn Dorsey? Jenkins for Baldwin? Not resigning Jean Francois, Walker, Sopoaga, Goldson (all who have done jack other than Goldson killing his team with penalties)

Oh hey look, there's Anquan Boldin.

How can any person say that not a single move this regime has made has worked in our favor? My mind is actually exploding right now with how little sense that makes.

If you knew me, follow my threads and posts, you'll see I always give cfredit where credit is due. I have agreed to many MANY of the FO moves over the years but that doesn't mean they don't make mistakes or poor decisions at times either. What erks me is the posters who have no thoughts of their own and just agree with every move...b/c the FO made that move. I merely used 2012 draft as an example of how our FO does makes mistakes...and sometimes a lot of them. Could that be the case recently with all these personnel examples? Perhaps...just keep an open mind to the possibility that Seattle and Kansas City may have gotten the better end of the deals here and that we are scrambling to bring players in off the streets (Cunningham) in hopes they pan out eventually. That said, I do also like the point that some of these moves may end up being moot points b/c we virtually, have an entire team that will be coming back after week 6 (hopeful) and we'll make even more roster moves then.


I think that's a generalization about the posters here. All what a lot of us are saying is that we don't know nearly enough about BJ Daniels to make a determination on the effect of this move. But we do know that he was a 3rd string project and therefore we feel it is more reasonable to defer to Harbaugh, who was with him every day, on this issue. What basis do we have to question the move? That doesn't mean that Daniels will not prove later down the road to be a good QB, but at this point, there's no point in panicking over the waiver of a developmental player who was not going to be active anytime soon.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by real9erfan:
I think that's a generalization about the posters here. All what a lot of us are saying is that we don't know nearly enough about BJ Daniels to make a determination on the effect of this move. But we do know that he was a 3rd string project and therefore we feel it is more reasonable to defer to Harbaugh, who was with him every day, on this issue. What basis do we have to question the move? That doesn't mean that Daniels will not prove later down the road to be a good QB, but at this point, there's no point in panicking over the waiver of a developmental player who was not going to be active anytime soon.

i wish you would have said this before the stampede began. it is so funny to me because all we have been told is that JH is a miracle worker with a quarterback. now we just throw that out the window because we got rid of the 2013 version of nate davis?
  • buck
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Originally posted by NCommand:
Please delete Brandon Jacobs. LOL. Who wanted him back?

To be fair, players need time to adjust (minue Cooper) to their new teams, playbooks and packages. Look at us...we haven't even activated Harper, Baldwin finally got in a game and had a couple balls thrown to him, Owen was cut beore he even got a playbook, its taken a rehab player to get Skuta and Lemonier a snap, etc. had the aforementioned players stayed with us, they COULD be excelling on ST at least while developing and would provide valuable depth at positions we suddenly need instead of bringing in players off the streets and starting from ground zero all over again.

There were complaints made this year about the way the team dealt with Brandon Jacobs. That is why I included him.

I understand that each and every player I listed could end of being a valuable contributor to their new teams.
But, the moves are being criticized right now, and to be fair there is little evidence right now to indicate that these complaints have much validity.

Yes, the aforementioned players COULD BE......, but they could be many things.

If we need to see what happens, then we have to wait.
[ Edited by buck on Oct 2, 2013 at 4:29 PM ]
Originally posted by real9erfan:
I think that's a generalization about the posters here. All what a lot of us are saying is that we don't know nearly enough about BJ Daniels to make a determination on the effect of this move. But we do know that he was a 3rd string project and therefore we feel it is more reasonable to defer to Harbaugh, who was with him every day, on this issue. What basis do we have to question the move? That doesn't mean that Daniels will not prove later down the road to be a good QB, but at this point, there's no point in panicking over the waiver of a developmental player who was not going to be active anytime soon.

True...but who says he wouldn't be activated? Or develop much better and quicker with us for our future? One injury and we're signing Cunningham off the streets. No offense but if CK goes down, I'm fairly certain most in here would feel more comfortable with BJ Daniels who seems to fit our current system better (and who's been in it this entire time) vs. a known-product in Skelton who knows nothing about our offense and who seems counter to the type of offense we do run here.

It is true that we as fans have small sample sizes to go off of but how many times are we also right? The flip side is that coaches can sometimes be TOO close to situations (see Harbaugh/Owen or Ventrone/Seely). That's human nature. And how did those move pan out?

And now you have a good young QB that "we" developed and one who we ALL knrew would end up going to Seattle; he goes to the team that is currently 4-0 and 2 games up on us.

I guess we can spin/justify it all we want but in the end, it's probably not a good move.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
I think that's a generalization about the posters here. All what a lot of us are saying is that we don't know nearly enough about BJ Daniels to make a determination on the effect of this move. But we do know that he was a 3rd string project and therefore we feel it is more reasonable to defer to Harbaugh, who was with him every day, on this issue. What basis do we have to question the move? That doesn't mean that Daniels will not prove later down the road to be a good QB, but at this point, there's no point in panicking over the waiver of a developmental player who was not going to be active anytime soon.

i wish you would have said this before the stampede began. it is so funny to me because all we have been told is that JH is a miracle worker with a quarterback. now we just throw that out the window because we got rid of the 2013 version of nate davis?


I have no issue with people questioning moves made by the FO. But I'm not going to question moves just for the sake of questioning them. I don't understand why we go into a frenzy whenever a preseason crush is released by the team. As you said, many people here were furious when Nate Davis was released. There's just no sense in taking these positions when we have no access to any valuable information on these players.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Please delete Brandon Jacobs. LOL. Who wanted him back?

To be fair, players need time to adjust (minue Cooper) to their new teams, playbooks and packages. Look at us...we haven't even activated Harper, Baldwin finally got in a game and had a couple balls thrown to him, Owen was cut beore he even got a playbook, its taken a rehab player to get Skuta and Lemonier a snap, etc. had the aforementioned players stayed with us, they COULD be excelling on ST at least while developing and would provide valuable depth at positions we suddenly need instead of bringing in players off the streets and starting from ground zero all over again.

There were complaints made this year about the way the team dealt with Brandon Jacobs. That is why I included him.

I understand that each and every player I listed could end of being a valuable contributor to their new teams.
But, the moves are being criticized right now, and to be fair there is little evidence right now to indicate that these complaints have much validity.

If we need to see what happens, then we have to wait.

Seriously? Those fans need to be banned ASAP! Haha. I was just more concerned with how the aforementioned could end up helping us now and perhaps, even more down the line. Now we just have tounfairly gage them based on what they do or don't do with their new teams.

Brandon Jacobs
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
I think that's a generalization about the posters here. All what a lot of us are saying is that we don't know nearly enough about BJ Daniels to make a determination on the effect of this move. But we do know that he was a 3rd string project and therefore we feel it is more reasonable to defer to Harbaugh, who was with him every day, on this issue. What basis do we have to question the move? That doesn't mean that Daniels will not prove later down the road to be a good QB, but at this point, there's no point in panicking over the waiver of a developmental player who was not going to be active anytime soon.

True...but who says he wouldn't be activated? Or develop much better and quicker with us for our future? One injury and we're signing Cunningham off the streets. No offense but if CK goes down, I'm fairly certain most in here would feel more comfortable with BJ Daniels who seems to fit our current system better (and who's been in it this entire time) vs. a known-product in Skelton who knows nothing about our offense and who seems counter to the type of offense we do run here.

It is true that we as fans have small sample sizes to go off of but how many times are we also right? The flip side is that coaches can sometimes be TOO close to situations (see Harbaugh/Owen or Ventrone/Seely). That's human nature. And how did those move pan out?

And now you have a good young QB that "we" developed and one who we ALL knrew would end up going to Seattle; he goes to the team that is currently 4-0 and 2 games up on us.

I guess we can spin/justify it all we want but in the end, it's probably not a good move.

But based on what do you make this determination? It really doesn't matter if you or I feel more comfortable with BJ, if in the end Harbaugh doesn't think he is ready. I'm not saying he is always right, but his opinion definitely carries more weight, and I really have to basis to dispute his findings. There is no way I can conclude that "it's probably not a good move" when I have nothing but limited footage of him playing in preseason games against other project players.
People are getting too butt hurt. Daniels was a 3rd stringer, who played well against 3rd stringers, guys either in CFL, looking for work, or on P-Squads.

Skelton isn't an exciting move, but who knows, maybe he takes over for McCoy.

The Cam move was made to give Skuta and Lemonier a chance, he wasn't better than them.

Parys wouldn't of fit under the cap. I have said for many many times, we dont have cap room. His $1.15M salary wouldn't fit, same for Jennings. The cap is flat, and not many can be restructured, due to no leverage. Who would restructure for Parys. He wouldn't be here in 2014, so get a draft pick, who cares if 7th rounder, it's something.

Only guys who could restrcture are Boldin, Gore, Brooks and Whitner, the rest have either minimum salaries, or are not eligible until November like Rogers, and Vernon. But no leverage for those 4. They are all playing great, and are key to success.
Originally posted by buck:
BJ Daniels has not played in a regular season game. Cutting him might have been a mistake, but at this point, calling his release a mistake is premature.

Your notion of a circular argument is somewhat confusing. Expert opinions are generally given more weight than non-expert opinions, but that certainly does not mean that each and every expert opinion is correct.

But, I do believe that it is safe to say that Baalke has made mistakes and will make more mistakes in the future.

I do not think that the front office owes the fan base more of an explanation for the release of BJ Daniels than the owe us for the release of any player that has been released so far this year.

In my estimation, the only player released this year who had earned anything from the team was Parys Haralson--and the team publicly praised him.
I believe that Parys earned the trade and that the trade gave him a reasonable opportunity to earn a starting spot.

I disagree that it requires an expert opinion to evaluate whether a personnel move is a good one. But even assuming that it does, I do not believe that one can only qualify as an expert by being in the front office. I guess that was the point I was trying to convey.

I don't think anyone is arguing that B.J. Daniels has actually done anything in a regular season game - he hasn't. Prospects are difficult to evaluate in the NFL because there are few roster spots available for developmental players. But as an analogy, I thought it was a mistake when the SF Giants traded Zach Wheeler for Carlos Beltran. At that point, Wheeler hadn't played in a major league game - I believe he was at AA. For every touted AA player that actually makes it there are dozens if not hundreds that don't. Nevertheless, I hated giving up a touted prospect at a key position for a rental player. But Sabean came out and said that he thought Wheeler was going to be a stud but that he was the only player teams wanted in exchange for the type of player Sabean was looking to acquire and that Beltran was an acquisition the Giants felt they needed to make to get back to the World Series. Beltran was a very good player, who would have played every day for the Giants if not for injury. Though I did not like the deal, I understood Sabean's logic because he came right out and provided it. He didn't need to justify trading a minor league player to the fans - but he did.

Here, you're getting rid of your prospect for a veteran that won't play at all. Does anybody seriously think our team goes anywhere with Skelton at QB? So why release the prospect for someone that either doesn't play or, worse, is forced to play because our star and backup QBs are gone to injury and our season already lost?

I disagree that the front office owes the fans nothing. We pay very steep ticket and concession prices to go to games. The new stadium prices are insane. As a fan being asked to pay those prices, it is not unreasonable for me to expect the business to explain its long-term objectives.
  • buck
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Originally posted by midrdan:
I disagree that it requires an expert opinion to evaluate whether a personnel move is a good one. But even assuming that it does, I do not believe that one can only qualify as an expert by being in the front office. I guess that was the point I was trying to convey.

I disagree that the front office owes the fans nothing. We pay very steep ticket and concession prices to go to games. The new stadium prices are insane. As a fan being asked to pay those prices, it is not unreasonable for me to expect the business to explain its long-term objectives.

Read what I wrote.

I never said that an expert opinion is required to evaluate a personnel move.

I never said the front office owes the fans nothing.
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