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Can someone explain this to me??

  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 10,052
Let's look at some of the recent roster cuts that have been criticized

1. Lavelle Hawkins

Chargers signed WR Lavelle Hawkins after Malcolm Floyd was hurt. He has not played a game yet.

2. BJ Daniels

Daniels was released by 49ers. He was picked up off waivers by Seattle. He has not played a game yet.

3. Parys Haralson

Has played in 4 games and started 2. He has 2 solo tackles, 3 assists and 1 sack.

4. Cam Johnson

Johnson has played in four games for the Colts. He has 1 solo tackle.

5. Marcus Cooper

Has played in four games and he has started 1. He has 1 pass defended and 4 tackles. He has played well on special teams.

6. Brandon Jacobs

Jacobs has played in three games. He has rushed 11 times for 11 yards. Has one reception for 5 yards.


I am sure I missed somebody.

So, far it looks like Baalke made a mistake by not keeping Marcus Cooper.

Hawkins and Daniels have not played in a game yet this year.

The trades for Johnson and Haralson do not seem to be mistakes.

Jacobs has done next to nothing in New York.
if they wanted skelton they could have cut mccoy instead since he sucks. bj daniels had talent and we could have groomed him to look good and trade him after next preseason. thats what i thought they were gonna do since he wont play because of Kap
Originally posted by midrdan:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
A show of hands...if you have ever been paid to make personnel decisions in the NFL please speak right up.

My hand isn't raised, but to suggest that the people in the front office are the best qualified to make personnel decisions simply because they work in the front office is a circular argument. There are tons of individuals that have made glaring, no brainer mistakes with personnel and draft decisions.

I will only address the B.J. Daniels move here because, to me, it is the one that has the biggest potential to backfire. Yes, B.J. Daniels can only be evaluated on his preseason showing. The guy was a 7th round pick that was mobile, moved the offense, and made plays in the fourth quarter. There was no compelling reason to let him go in exchange for a guy like John Skelton and many reasons to keep him even if, as some posters have suggested, he was a problem in the locker room (very doubtful - the kid is a 7th round backup that had no issues of "me first" coming out of college).

1. It is way too soon to say that he won't develop into a legitimate QB. Again, he played well in the opportunities given to him.

2. Even supposing that we had no plans of ever making him the No. 2, teams value QB really high. Are you telling me that with another strong preseason showing that Daniels would not have garnered trade interest? He seemed like the perfect player to turn into a higher draft pick than what was spent on him.

3. There is little financial impact to keeping him.

4. His mobility should have been an asset in practice in preparing for other mobile QBs.

If the team is going to release a guy like that I think they owe it to the fan base to provide a little more explanation than "We really like Skelton and its unfortunate B.J. had to go, we thank him for his contributions, etc."

Finally, a nice intelligent post...a post of reason; someone with an actual thought of their own instead of the same old, "well, since the FO thought it best, I'm good with it too." So far, not a single move we have made has worked in our favor (so far)? 2012 draft? Obviously, even the greatest FO of all time makes mistakes. Teams are obviously, literally, watching every personnel move we make and jumping on them, putting these moves even more under a microscope.

I don't understand the ratoionale that we're "stockpiling picks" or "we're developing them for the future" either. Last year we couldn't GIVE our picks away. And who the hell wants a late 7th anyways? Developing for the future? You mean like Cam Johnson who we gave away for a late 7th? Haralson, cool...that clearly was a move for salary cap AND to get him on a team where he could start; win-win. We still don't have a real NT, OT or pure FB should Miller get hurt (and he's been hit pretty hard a few times already). I'm happy that Lockette, Cooper, Gray, Hawkins, etc. all got picked up as well...with Lockette, we got Baldwin who's taken a while to learn the playbook; we hope he starts to shine. We're still waiting for Harper to be activted. Obviously we'd all feel more comfortable with Hawkins returning kicks for us and perhaps, in the slot as well. Gray might have been a good fit for us in the H-back role and Cooper is exactly what this team needed....young, 6'2" 192 CB who I highlighted during pre season, looked good and just needed some more time (guess I was wrong on the "time"part).

But to stay in context, I don't care what they do elsewhere; all IMHO, would be good fits for us...right now AND in the future. Most would have been active on ST either way (Johnson - punt blocker and coverage and pass rush specialist, Hawkins - slot and P/KO returner, Lockette - gunner and maybe the X and Z, maybe Gray and Cooper).

Anyhow, not happy with many of these moves but that's OK. We'll just have to see how everything pans out down the road. Perhaps we can revisit this thread at the end of the year for perspective.

Go Niners!
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 2, 2013 at 3:31 PM ]
Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
Originally posted by midrdan:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
A show of hands...if you have ever been paid to make personnel decisions in the NFL please speak right up.

My hand isn't raised, but to suggest that the people in the front office are the best qualified to make personnel decisions simply because they work in the front office is a circular argument. There are tons of individuals that have made glaring, no brainer mistakes with personnel and draft decisions.

I will only address the B.J. Daniels move here because, to me, it is the one that has the biggest potential to backfire. Yes, B.J. Daniels can only be evaluated on his preseason showing. The guy was a 7th round pick that was mobile, moved the offense, and made plays in the fourth quarter. There was no compelling reason to let him go in exchange for a guy like John Skelton and many reasons to keep him even if, as some posters have suggested, he was a problem in the locker room (very doubtful - the kid is a 7th round backup that had no issues of "me first" coming out of college).

1. It is way too soon to say that he won't develop into a legitimate QB. Again, he played well in the opportunities given to him.

2. Even supposing that we had no plans of ever making him the No. 2, teams value QB really high. Are you telling me that with another strong preseason showing that Daniels would not have garnered trade interest? He seemed like the perfect player to turn into a higher draft pick than what was spent on him.

3. There is little financial impact to keeping him.

4. His mobility should have been an asset in practice in preparing for other mobile QBs.

If the team is going to release a guy like that I think they owe it to the fan base to provide a little more explanation than "We really like Skelton and its unfortunate B.J. had to go, we thank him for his contributions, etc."

They owe you an explanation for dumping a third string QB with zero experience, and picking up a vet? Perhaps they should let you know if they change to decaf? Or the brand of stick em the receivers use.....those two decisions are more likely to have bearing on the outcome of a game in the next year than Daniels will.

If this year was the only year that the team, front office, or fans care about then you'd have a point but it's not. And the bottom line is that we traded away a player that has future value but won't play this year for a guy with no future value that won't play this year. I don't understand the logic of the decision - Skelton, or another similarly below average veteran would have been available if/when we actually needed to pull the trigger on bringing in a third QB. But if our team ever got to that point, I'm guessing our season would be over. You're telling me you'd rather have Skelton than Daniels with nothing to play for?
^^ Good post Buck! We would be able to do this same list no matter who the niners cut...just the way it is when a team is really loaded. Remember...we have four injured players who will bump others when they return! Whoa...can't wait to hear the hollering when those moves are made!
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
^^ Good post Buck! We would be able to do this same list no matter who the niners cut...just the way it is when a team is really loaded. Remember...we have four injured players who will bump others when they return! Whoa...can't wait to hear the hollering when those moves are made!

we have a ton of extra "special teams guys" who can be cut for players who can do special teams and actually contribute when theyre back. it is a nice problem to have tho instead of being so thin that when a decent player is cut its the end of the world
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
^^ Good post Buck! We would be able to do this same list no matter who the niners cut...just the way it is when a team is really loaded. Remember...we have four injured players who will bump others when they return! Whoa...can't wait to hear the hollering when those moves are made!

we have a ton of extra "special teams guys" who can be cut for players who can do special teams and actually contribute when theyre back. it is a nice problem to have tho instead of being so thin that when a decent player is cut its the end of the world

Yes, that's what we did last year and the STs fell on their collective faces!
Kaep has been getting hit the past 3 games, maybe they were not 100% sold on McCoy but wouldn't wanna give the keys to BJ either. I can understand why they wanted 2 vets behind Kaep. If Kaep when down, you still have a small shot with 2 vets, not with BJ in his first year.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Finally, a nice intelligent post...a post of reason; someone with an actual thought of their own instead of the same old, "well, since the FO thought it best, I'm good with it too." So far, not a single move we have made has worked in our favor (so far)? 2012 draft? Obviously, even the greatest FO of all time makes mistakes. Teams are obviously, literally, watching every personnel move we make and jumping on them, putting these moves even more under a microscope.

What a load of hyperbole. How about the entire 2011 draft class? Eric Reid? Alex Smith for 2 2'nd picks? Glenn Dorsey? Jenkins for Baldwin? Not resigning Jean Francois, Walker, Sopoaga, Goldson (all who have done jack other than Goldson killing his team with penalties)

Oh hey look, there's Anquan Boldin.

How can any person say that not a single move this regime has made has worked in our favor? My mind is actually exploding right now with how little sense that makes.
[ Edited by Disp on Oct 2, 2013 at 3:40 PM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
^^ Good post Buck! We would be able to do this same list no matter who the niners cut...just the way it is when a team is really loaded. Remember...we have four injured players who will bump others when they return! Whoa...can't wait to hear the hollering when those moves are made!

we have a ton of extra "special teams guys" who can be cut for players who can do special teams and actually contribute when theyre back. it is a nice problem to have tho instead of being so thin that when a decent player is cut its the end of the world

Yes, that's what we did last year and the STs fell on their collective faces!

yep. i'd rather cut a few 3rd string position players than any of the ST role players
  • MarkD
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 939
I don't care what anyone says a BJ is always good
im not recommending that they just cut all special teamers but some of the guys who come back can play special teams or push people like kyle williams and whichever cb gets dropped for right back to special teams. we have lots of guys who can play special teams but are too important to us now because of all our injuries
Originally posted by Disp:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Finally, a nice intelligent post...a post of reason; someone with an actual thought of their own instead of the same old, "well, since the FO thought it best, I'm good with it too." So far, not a single move we have made has worked in our favor (so far)? 2012 draft? Obviously, even the greatest FO of all time makes mistakes. Teams are obviously, literally, watching every personnel move we make and jumping on them, putting these moves even more under a microscope.

What a load of hyperbole. How about the entire 2011 draft class? Eric Reid? Alex Smith for 2 2'nd picks? Glenn Dorsey? Jenkins for Baldwin? Not resigning Jean Francois, Walker, Sopoaga, Goldson (all who have done jack other than Goldson killing his team with penalties)

Oh hey look, there's Anquan Boldin.

How can any person say that not a single move this regime has made has worked in our favor? My mind is actually exploding right now with how little sense that makes.


I agree with this. To say that not a single move we've made has worked out for us is quite a stretch.
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
im not recommending that they just cut all special teamers but some of the guys who come back can play special teams or push people like kyle williams and whichever cb gets dropped for right back to special teams. we have lots of guys who can play special teams but are too important to us now because of all our injuries

I understand your frustration but I think Harbaugh learned a lesson last year and decided to give his special teams coach a number of slots for guys he really valued. There are just some guys who have a special knack and who can play every ST unit.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 10,052
Originally posted by midrdan:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
A show of hands...if you have ever been paid to make personnel decisions in the NFL please speak right up.

My hand isn't raised, but to suggest that the people in the front office are the best qualified to make personnel decisions simply because they work in the front office is a circular argument. There are tons of individuals that have made glaring, no brainer mistakes with personnel and draft decisions.

If the team is going to release a guy like that I think they owe it to the fan base to provide a little more explanation than "We really like Skelton and its unfortunate B.J. had to go, we thank him for his contributions, etc."

BJ Daniels has not played in a regular season game. Cutting him might have been a mistake, but at this point, calling his release a mistake is premature.

Your notion of a circular argument is somewhat confusing. Expert opinions are generally given more weight than non-expert opinions, but that certainly does not mean that each and every expert opinion is correct.

But, I do believe that it is safe to say that Baalke has made mistakes and will make more mistakes in the future.

I do not think that the front office owes the fan base more of an explanation for the release of BJ Daniels than the owe us for the release of any player that has been released so far this year.

In my estimation, the only player released this year who had earned anything from the team was Parys Haralson--and the team publicly praised him.
I believe that Parys earned the trade and that the trade gave him a reasonable opportunity to earn a starting spot.