There are 166 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Can someone explain this to me??

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Good post.

On a general note. What's puzzling is how the Niners plan for stocking the pipeline with developmental players. Isn't that what the draft is for? Especially the later rounds. Why even draft a position if there is no chance that you're going to keep a player no matter how much he shines or exceeds expectations? What exactly is the point? Draft other positons that have a chance of sticking.

Specifically, I refer to Morris, Gray and Daniels (there are probably others).
Let's see.

You talk about drafting guys and then bring up two players who were UDFA's. Seriously? Look, this team has talented roster, they won't be able to keep everyone, its simple as that. Gray has done nothing for Cleveland, hasn't even taken a snap, realistically he should be on a practice squad somewhere. Daniels also belongs on a practice squad, he's extremely raw, comes from a spread-based system, and with the 49ers moving away from a read option system, Daniels had no fit on this team, the last thing they need is to develop another guy with limited experience playing behind center. Skelton is a pure pocket QB that fits what Harbaugh is trying to do on offense and is already experienced with over 20 NFL starts under his belt.

Daniels someday MIGHT be a good player, or he might be a total bust and get released by Seattle like many of the other former 49ers they've signed.....*cough* Nate Davis *cough*, I just hope if that happens, you're honest enough to come back and say "whoops, looks like Baalke knew what he was doing after all." I'm not happy with the 49ers dumping Cooper either, but people are strongly overreacting over a quarter's worth of play against a team that is struggling in every facet of the game. Let's see how these guys are doing a year from now.

All this grinding of teeth, moaning and groaning reminds me when the 49ers let Nate Palmer and Chris Owusu go last offseason...where are those guys now? Owusu is on the practice squad for Tampa Bay and Nate Palmer is selling insurance now. In the end, the 49ers won't be able to keep everyone, this is a pretty loaded roster, they'll swing and miss on players, just like every other team, like every other GM in the NFL does, it happens, that is just reality.

6th and 7th rounders are crap shoots, the vast majority of them will be out of the NFL in under 2 years or less. It is just the reality of the situation, you take a chance on a guy and if it doesn't work, you cut your losses and keep moving on.

Well I commited a "typo". Obviously I meant Cooper and not Morris. Hopefully one would surmise that because, in fact, Morris is still with the Niners. By your later reference to Cooper, I think you understood who I meant.

That said who is the other UDFA among those I named? I was under the impression that both Gray and Daniels were drafted. But please correct me if I am mistaken. I was watching the Browns/Bills game and I recall Gray being in the game, so your statement re his not taking a snap is incorrect.
BTW who is "grinding their teeth" and "moaning"? I'm simply making an observation which I believe to be valid re the interrelationship between drafting someone and stocking the developmental pipeline. I'd appreciate your not putting the shoe on the other foot. You seem to have problems with opinions that don't conform to your own.

"Honest enough", "come back and say 'Whoops'"? What in the world are you going on about? Development players are by definition speculative undertakings. Not every one works out. But they are players deemed worthy of being given a chance to develop. Primarily because they haven't to date had the opportunity to show what "they got". Anyway, in the case of Daniels, both Baalke and Harbaugh plainly stated that Daniels was someone who they strongly felt belonged in that category and that they agonized over the decision to expose him to waivers. They wanted him back; he's the classic "developmental" player. My point has already been validated by the FO. Some teams hit the jackpot, many don't. Why is it that when someone posts a remark supportive of a rookie, there's always a know-it-all that brings up Nate Davis or *insert some other rookie who got cut here*. You probably would have said the same thing about Brady; he was only a 6th rounder after all, wasn't even a full-time starter at Michigan, another Nate Davis, etc.

One of the beat writers elaborated on the theme at the QB position rather obviously: Starter, experienced back-up, dvelopmental, raw 3rd stringer. I felt that Daniels fit the 3rd stringer role rather well. He might have a very high football IQ. Like Wilson, for example. He might not, but that's what the team needs to find out. On the other hand, Skelton, could very well be good. He fits more in the experienced 2nd stringer mold. Besides there is a pretty extensive book on him; moreso than on McCoy for example. So far his football IQ has not proved stellar. Perhaps he should be the second-stringer and it MIGHT turn out that way. He does have impressive size. But size isn't everything. Personally, despite better judgement, I am excited to see what he could potentially be for the NIners. But reallistically that's just the fan in me. He's bounced around so much and been released from every team he's signed with, the chances of him suddenly excelling aren't very high. But we'll see.

Anyway, you missed the point of my post, so I'm probably wasting time here.
Originally posted by mayo49:
I would rather have cut McCoy then Daniels. Kap, Skelton and Daniels would have been a decent 3.
I think the team would've liked to do that as well. However, that would've simultaneously been a major short-term risk with long-term reward.

McCoy is the only player is the only QB on the roster right now that who:
a) knows our playbook, and,
b) has in-game NFL experience.

Skelton has NFL experience, but knows nothing about our playbook; Daniels has a grasp on the playbook, but has no NFL experience (aside from preseason). If Kap were to have went down in the next few weeks, they would've been majorly screwed (then again, if Kap goes down they're probably screwed no matter what). In that sense, it would've been a major short-term risk.

It's clear as day the front office has no confidence in McCoy though. Forced him to renegotiate, and now they brought in Skelton. But to me that had to have been the thought process of Baalke and Harbaugh; if McCoy were cut and Kap were hurt, a team with a still-very-strong roster would've been absolutely screwed.

With the route they took, they now have the short-term safety net in McCoy (even if he sucks, he still has familiarity with how to run our offense), while being able to spend the coming weeks grooming Skelton. Blatant speculation here, but my guess is that, had Daniels cleared waivers and made it to the practice squad, they would've groomed Skelton for a handful of weeks until he had a good grasp on the playbook, given McCoy the boot and then promoted Daniels back up to the #3 QB on the active roster.
[ Edited by theduke85 on Oct 5, 2013 at 10:53 AM ]
Originally posted by buck:
I find the post somewhat interesting and a little confusing, but I am not sure why anyone who call it great.

Who exactly are the two wide receivers that are the biggest scrubs on their roster who have FOR YEARS demonstrated that they are mediocre. Yet they doggedly stick to them, even as their #2.

There are seven wide receivers on our roster and only one of them has been our roster FOR YEARS--Kyle Williams.

I will concede that Williams has been mediocre since he was drafted in 2010, but he is the only wide receiver on the 53-man roster who has been with the team for years. Even though I consider him mediocre, I am not sure that he merits being considered a biggest scrub.

| am still trying to figure out who the second biggest scrub is that has been on the roster for years.

Perhaps, the idea put forward is correct but the post is just poorly worded. I do think this lack of clarity on the wide receivers takes away from the greatness of the post.

Perhaps, the apparent prediction that the 49ers will lose the game because of our disgruntling handling of our wide receiver situation makes this a great post.

Like I said, the post is interesting and some what confusing, but I do definitely do not consider it great.

But, hey that is just my opinion and I do recognize that my opinion might not mean very much. But, hey everyone is entitled to his own opinion.

The second less-than-stellar receiver on the Niners roster, who for years has not demonstrated a #2 quality IMO is B. Moore. Coaches seem to agree somewhat. He went from #2 during TC, to losing the #2 to KW, to being inactive for the last game.
  • SaksV
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 874
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
The second less-than-stellar receiver on the Niners roster, who for years has not demonstrated a #2 quality IMO is B. Moore. Coaches seem to agree somewhat. He went from #2 during TC, to losing the #2 to KW, to being inactive for the last game.


Who is B. Moore? And he's been here for years? Wow I must not be paying attention.

Perhaps you mean Marlon Moore, the WR we signed this off-season via Miami...... He's only been on the roster for 7 months
The whole B.J. Daniels "saga" reminds me to the whole Nate "the great" "the next comming of Montana" Davis saga...
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
The second less-than-stellar receiver on the Niners roster, who for years has not demonstrated a #2 quality IMO is B. Moore. Coaches seem to agree somewhat. He went from #2 during TC, to losing the #2 to KW, to being inactive for the last game.

Are you referring to Marlin Moore? If so, are you saying that he failed to prove himself as a #2 in Miami? If so, you are correct. However, he was signed by the 49ers this season to be a special teams guy. He lucked his way into the WR lineup with a strong TC.
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
The second less-than-stellar receiver on the Niners roster, who for years has not demonstrated a #2 quality IMO is B. Moore. Coaches seem to agree somewhat. He went from #2 during TC, to losing the #2 to KW, to being inactive for the last game.

Who the heck is B Moore?
Originally posted by theduke85:
Originally posted by mayo49:
I would rather have cut McCoy then Daniels. Kap, Skelton and Daniels would have been a decent 3.
I think the team would've liked to do that as well. However, that would've simultaneously been a major short-term risk with long-term reward.

McCoy is the only player is the only QB on the roster right now that who:
a) knows our playbook, and,
b) has in-game NFL experience.

Skelton has NFL experience, but knows nothing about our playbook; Daniels has a grasp on the playbook, but has no NFL experience (aside from preseason). If Kap were to have went down in the next few weeks, they would've been majorly screwed (then again, if Kap goes down they're probably screwed no matter what). In that sense, it would've been a major short-term risk.

It's clear as day the front office has no confidence in McCoy though. Forced him to renegotiate, and now they brought in Skelton. But to me that had to have been the thought process of Baalke and Harbaugh; if McCoy were cut and Kap were hurt, a team with a still-very-strong roster would've been absolutely screwed.

With the route they took, they now have the short-term safety net in McCoy (even if he sucks, he still has familiarity with how to run our offense), while being able to spend the coming weeks grooming Skelton. Blatant speculation here, but my guess is that, had Daniels cleared waivers and made it to the practice squad, they would've groomed Skelton for a handful of weeks until he had a good grasp on the playbook, given McCoy the boot and then promoted Daniels back up to the #3 QB on the active roster.

Plausible.
But are the Niners really that down on MCoy? It's a risk just assuming that Skelton will pass muster once he has the playbook down. He has not stuck anywhere else that he has been. Despite being given plenty of opportunity. Good measurables, but lacking the intangibles, perhaps?

On the other hand I think that McCoy is a serviceable #2, good athleticism and a very good character guy. Not really starter material, but a classic back-up.

The Niners had other options. They could have carried 4 QBs on the roster for a few weeks until they saw what they had with Skelton. And cut someone else who is generally on the inactive list on gameday and unlikely to be picked up by another team. Someone who they could be easily resign when the Niners figured out who their #2 should be. This may offend some, but my candidates for these potential cuts would have been Marlon Moore and Kyle Williams (although this cut may be too emotionally unpalatable for the Niners). If by chance their cut got picked up, the Niners could promote Jacobs from the PS with little to no loss in production (a net upgrade IMO).

Factor in that it's not to much longer before Manningham returns.

Also interesting to note: Two years ago when Alex was the starter, the Niners had two rookies backing him up. Don't exactly know how it fits here, but I think Daniels would not have been a total disaster in a real game situation if he had to step in.
[ Edited by Rsrkshn on Oct 5, 2013 at 11:37 AM ]
Originally posted by SaksV:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
The second less-than-stellar receiver on the Niners roster, who for years has not demonstrated a #2 quality IMO is B. Moore. Coaches seem to agree somewhat. He went from #2 during TC, to losing the #2 to KW, to being inactive for the last game.


Who is B. Moore? And he's been here for years? Wow I must not be paying attention.

Perhaps you mean Marlon Moore, the WR we signed this off-season via Miami...... He's only been on the roster for 7 months


Sorry, I did mean Marlon. I didn't say that he had been in the NINER roster for year. But he has been in the league for many years and is CURRENTLY on the Niners roster. There is film on him and he hasn't exactly lit up the league. He's currently languishing on the inactive list.

Come on! Is it so difficult to dechiper what I meant. There are going to be typos . . . try connecting the dots.
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
But are the Niners really that down on MCoy?
Personally, yes -- I think so. I mean, they brought in Seneca Wallace late in the preseason, basically to coerce McCoy into taking a pay cut. And there were rumors that late in the preseason they were shopping* around McCoy to other teams. I think they have very little faith in him.
* http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000234084/article/colt-mccoy-being-shopped-by-san-francisco-49ers


Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
The Niners had other options. They could have carried 4 QBs on the roster for a few weeks until they saw what they had with Skelton. And cut someone else who is generally on the inactive list on gameday and unlikely to be picked up by another team. Someone who they could be easily resign when the Niners figured out who their #2 should be. This may offend some, but my candidates for these potential cuts would have been Brandon Moore and Kyle Williams (although this cut may be too emotionally unpalatable for the Niners). If by chance their cut got picked up, the Niners could promote Jacobs from the PS with little to no loss in production (a net upgrade IMO).
Hm, I don't know, I think that's easier said than done. The team is already low on receivers (especially with Patton getting hurt). No one do I see them cutting a receiver before Manningham returns. And, if they waited for Manningham to return to sign Skelton, then that's 3 less weeks they have to get Skelton rolling on the playbook.

The only thing that makes sense to me is what I described earlier -- temporarily moving Daniels to the practice squad until Skelton was brought up to speed. But again, that's just my opinion, I could be totally wrong.


Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Don't exactly know how it fits here, but I think Daniels would not have been a total disaster in a real game situation if he had to step in.
Can't help but think if the lack of success with the read option this year has to do with them not having as much confidence in Daniels. That is to say, if the RO was clicking again this year, they probably would've been much more comfortable with Daniels stepping in and being a stopgap, versus having to play a more conventional pro-style offense.
[ Edited by theduke85 on Oct 5, 2013 at 11:40 AM ]
Originally posted by theduke85:

Hm, I don't know, I think that's easier said than done. The team is already low on receivers (especially with Patton getting hurt). No one do I see them cutting a receiver before Manningham returns. And, if they waited for Manningham to return to sign Skelton, then that's 3 less weeks they have to get Skelton rolling on the playbook.

Actually the thing on Skelton - He worked out for the 49ers in September. At that time, the 49ers told him to inform them if any other teams became interested in the future. At the beginning of this month, Skelton worked out for the Titans. Like the 49er's asked, he informed them that the Titans were interested. At this point, waiting for ANY reason was no longer an option.


EDIT: At least that's what Matt Maiocco reported recently.
[ Edited by trellblaze on Oct 5, 2013 at 11:58 AM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Skelton is a very large, strong, less talented version of Roethlisberger...not impressed. That said, Harbaugh will probably turn him into another Marino!

Nooo dont say that!!! Marino never won a ring
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by SaksV:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
The second less-than-stellar receiver on the Niners roster, who for years has not demonstrated a #2 quality IMO is B. Moore. Coaches seem to agree somewhat. He went from #2 during TC, to losing the #2 to KW, to being inactive for the last game.


Who is B. Moore? And he's been here for years? Wow I must not be paying attention.

Perhaps you mean Marlon Moore, the WR we signed this off-season via Miami...... He's only been on the roster for 7 months


Sorry, I did mean Marlon. I didn't say that he had been in the NINER roster for year. But he has been in the league for many years and is CURRENTLY on the Niners roster. There is film on him and he hasn't exactly lit up the league. He's currently languishing on the inactive list.

Come on! Is it so difficult to dechiper what I meant. There are going to be typos . . . try connecting the dots.

Well you have to know the names of the players.

BUT... while I agree with you regarding Marlon Moore being a scrub, the reason he stuck so "hard" on the roster is because he was added to the team very early during the summer... meaning that he knows the playbook in and out. Meanwhile, guys like Austin Collie and Lavelle Hawkins were very late adds in August, so their knowledge of the system wasn't on par with that of Moore.

I mean really, our five wideouts were Boldin, Moore, Williams, Patton, & Jenkins. Patton was hurt in the preseason. Jenkins couldn't get it together. So that left us with the first three.

That's the only reason Moore has stuck. There was no one else! We added Baldwin very late, and Patton is injured, so now it's Balwin's turn to see if he can be the #2.

It's really not that complicated... just a numbers game. As soon as Crabs & Maningham return, and later Patton, Moore is probably gone.
[ Edited by NickSh49 on Oct 5, 2013 at 1:55 PM ]
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,723
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
The second less-than-stellar receiver on the Niners roster, who for years has not demonstrated a #2 quality IMO is B. Moore. Coaches seem to agree somewhat. He went from #2 during TC, to losing the #2 to KW, to being inactive for the last game.

I think you mean Marlon Moore.

My point was only that your post was interesting, but somewhat confusing-not great.

It took me a while but I was able to figure out that you meant in the league for years, not on the 49ers for years.
At first, I was not sure if the second receiver was Moore or Osgood, but after giving it more thought I decided that you meant Moore.

I still think it was a somewhat confusing, but that is only my opinion and I do not think it is a big deal.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
The second less-than-stellar receiver on the Niners roster, who for years has not demonstrated a #2 quality IMO is B. Moore. Coaches seem to agree somewhat. He went from #2 during TC, to losing the #2 to KW, to being inactive for the last game.

I think you mean Marlon Moore.

My point was only that your post was interesting, but somewhat confusing-not great.

It took me a while but I was able to figure out that you meant in the league for years, not on the 49ers for years.
At first, I was not sure if the second receiver was Moore or Osgood, but after giving it more thought I decided that you meant Moore.

I still think it was a somewhat confusing, but that is only my opinion and I do not think it is a big deal.

Semantics.