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Can someone explain this to me??

Originally posted by NCommand:
My man...agree, it is being overblown (by both sides). Time to move on!

But I do want to point out that I was BIG on Cooper and pitched hard on this board for him in my 53-projection after analyzing the pre season games; and I was probably the only one too d/t the limited snaps/exposure. So I'm not too nuts, right? Haha

And, let's keep in mind that the Niners have five of the first 100 picks next draft. Yes, losing Cooper is a problem, but one of those first three picks is going to be a stud corner - it will probably be the first round pick and probably one of the three best corners in the draft.
49ers front office > us


just sayin
Originally posted by GNielsen:
And, let's keep in mind that the Niners have five of the first 100 picks next draft. Yes, losing Cooper is a problem, but one of those first three picks is going to be a stud corner - it will probably be the first round pick and probably one of the three best corners in the draft.

I favor the shotgun approach, take like 3 or 4 corners in the draft and then let them work it out in the preseason. Not sure if accurate but I believe that Culliver, Rogers and Morris are the only ones with contracts going beyond this season.
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
That is true, but most 7th round picks don't make NFL rosters. Ours did. Most 7th round picks don't play well in preseason. Our's did.

What does that mean? That means we might have a good player from the 7th round, who might be able to play in this league, and play in the league for FOUR YEARS for peanuts. How nice would it be to have a backup quarterback, playing on a cheap contract for the next three years? THAT is how you use leverage in the era of the salary cap. THAT is what the draft is for, in the era of the salary cap.

And then there's Cooper. He is the number three corner on a team with tons of corners. On a team that is 4-0. How do you let him walk, because Brock has more experience with the defense? Sometimes you just have to keep the talent, even if it lacks experience. ESPECIALLY in the salary cap era of football. The Chiefs now have a solid DB for FOUR YEARS of cheap labor. MAN that would have been nice for us.

Cooper has played ONE NFL GAME against a team who is 0-4 and was mostly covering a WR (Nicks) who had 0 catches the previous week. Let's not get too carried away. Did he do a great job in that one game? Of course. That's obvious but it takes more than one game before we can write him off as "the biggest loss". Tim Rattey threw for 417 yards in one game. Didn't do so well an any others.

I'm not saying Cooper is a scrub but let's keep some perspective here. He hasn't proven himself to be a shutdown corner in just one game. What he has shown is that he deserves another shot to prove that he is.

BTW, this is not just about your post. It seems that the popular opinion here is that he's a clear cut winner. That simply isn't the case yet.


It's clear cut that he is good enough to be on an NFL roster. If he can be the #3 corner on the Chiefs as a rookie, he can definitely be on our 53 man roster.
Remember, the salary is my main point. If a late round pick is good enough to be on an NFL roster, it benefits your team in the long term because of the four years of cheap labor. That is the main point.
I haven't said anything about "shutdown" or how good he actually is, besides the fact that he is clearly good enough to be on an NFL roster.

I think it's clear that we went with Brock because he has more experience and knows our defense. That is thinking short term. Which has benefits for the short term of course, but we are losing a lot of cheap salaries into the future. Not only that, but young guys have a high ceiling.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Oct 3, 2013 at 10:27 PM ]
Originally posted by GNielsen:
And, let's keep in mind that the Niners have five of the first 100 picks next draft. Yes, losing Cooper is a problem, but one of those first three picks is going to be a stud corner - it will probably be the first round pick and probably one of the three best corners in the draft.


A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, especially if you have that bird for four years of league minimum pay.
With all this praise of Marcus Cooper, a corner on our own team had a pretty good game last week as well. I guarantee had we kept Cooper as the 6th corner, people would've been hollering for him to be released in favor of a NT, DE, or WR that could make a contribution now.
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
With all this praise of Marcus Cooper, a corner on our own team had a pretty good game last week as well. I guarantee had we kept Cooper as the 6th corner, people would've been hollering for him to be released in favor of a NT, DE, or WR that could make a contribution now.

Wtvr, Cooper is inadvertently helping the niners secure a 2nd round pick who they're gonna use on a better CB than Cooper will ever be...
Originally posted by BrianGO:
It's clear cut that he is good enough to be on an NFL roster. If he can be the #3 corner on the Chiefs as a rookie, he can definitely be on our 53 man roster.
Remember, the salary is my main point. If a late round pick is good enough to be on an NFL roster, it benefits your team in the long term because of the four years of cheap labor. That is the main point.
I haven't said anything about "shutdown" or how good he actually is, besides the fact that he is clearly good enough to be on an NFL roster.

I think it's clear that we went with Brock because he has more experience and knows our defense. That is thinking short term. Which has benefits for the short term of course, but we are losing a lot of cheap salaries into the future. Not only that, but young guys have a high ceiling.

I think the FO does a good job of balancing future needs with short term needs. Letting go of Soap, Ricky Jean, Goldson, Haralson was definitely long term. There are countless other micro-roster moves I could point to.

I get what you're saying but in order to keep the balance you HAVE to lose some players you don't want to lose - weather at the top of the roster or the very bottom. Every single roster move can't be for the benefit the future. You can't always go with the safe bet (Cooper vs an unknown draft pick). You still have to take care of now and that means you have to risk a bit of the future. As long as you don't squander it, you're ok.

There's also the issue of people blasting the Cooper move AFTER the fact. I'm willing to bet that 70% or more of the people blasting the team about Cooper now were only vaguely aware of him before the KC game.

Again, this is not so much about you but more the general consensus. I'm aware that the above shoe doesn't fit you.
Originally posted by GNielsen:
And, let's keep in mind that the Niners have five of the first 100 picks next draft. Yes, losing Cooper is a problem, but one of those first three picks is going to be a stud corner - it will probably be the first round pick and probably one of the three best corners in the draft.

LOL! Yes, Baalke has set this team up to reload each year...and people think he's doing a bad job?! Next year the team will lose more than one really good player because the one loss this year that all are decrying indicates the strength of the team...then they bring in another group of six to seven truly gifted players...who goes?

Even if they lost three or four FAs, there will still be a need to release or trade some other "key" back ups.

If there is one area of concern it might be player development, but that falls on the coaching staff. WR problems may be solely due to injury or is there a coaching problem there? Other areas you see young guys taking over for injured or lost players who step in and really play well...not so at WR. I believe they may use a top choice there and wait until later for a DB.

.
Originally posted by trellblaze:
I think the FO does a good job of balancing future needs with short term needs. Letting go of Soap, Ricky Jean, Goldson, Haralson was definitely long term. There are countless other micro-roster moves I could point to.

I get what you're saying but in order to keep the balance you HAVE to lose some players you don't want to lose - weather at the top of the roster or the very bottom. Every single roster move can't be for the benefit the future. You can't always go with the safe bet (Cooper vs an unknown draft pick). You still have to take care of now and that means you have to risk a bit of the future. As long as you don't squander it, you're ok.

There's also the issue of people blasting the Cooper move AFTER the fact. I'm willing to bet that 70% or more of the people blasting the team about Cooper now were only vaguely aware of him before the KC game.

Again, this is not so much about you but more the general consensus. I'm aware that the above shoe doesn't fit you.

Good post! This is what I had in my 53 projections:

CB (6): Tarell Brown, Carlos Rogers, Nnamdi Asomugha, Perrish Cox, Tramaine Brock and Marcus Cooper; Chris Culliver & Eric Wright (PUP) - Note: Darryl Morris is playing very well and has been playing fantastic in practice. Both Cooper and Morris could very well end up pushing Brock off the roster but it's a long shot right now esp. after his INT last night. But you can't teach what Cooper/Morris have and both are very good on ST.

There was clearly room to keep both and we had paid Cox/Brock a lot in the off season (mainly for ST purposes as gunners). We could have gone cheaper here and kept both, but at least, keep one. And we ended up getting lucky keeping Morris.

The issue I have is that the same ones claiming the Cooper loss is no big deal or is just part of the process are the same ones who didn't do their research and slated him as a developmental CB for now and he future (for cheaper than Brock/Cox and with potentially, much more upside) who should have made the 53. There was clearly room for one or the other and even both if you removed Stupar or Ventrone. CB's with Morris' speed and Coopers 6'2 195 frame are very hard to find esp. in the 7th round and who showed well. The Chiefs/Hawks did their research and many of our own fans see these moves as no big deal.

We shall see...
Threads like these wouldn't be here if Baalke was doing a s**tty job. You all should be thankful that were letting go of what we think are quality players instead of s**tty dudes that never had any business being on the roster in the first place.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Good post! This is what I had in my 53 projections:

CB (6): Tarell Brown, Carlos Rogers, Nnamdi Asomugha, Perrish Cox, Tramaine Brock and Marcus Cooper; Chris Culliver & Eric Wright (PUP) - Note: Darryl Morris is playing very well and has been playing fantastic in practice. Both Cooper and Morris could very well end up pushing Brock off the roster but it's a long shot right now esp. after his INT last night. But you can't teach what Cooper/Morris have and both are very good on ST.

There was clearly room to keep both and we had paid Cox/Brock a lot in the off season (mainly for ST purposes as gunners). We could have gone cheaper here and kept both, but at least, keep one. And we ended up getting lucky keeping Morris.

The issue I have is that the same ones claiming the Cooper loss is no big deal or is just part of the process are the same ones who didn't do their research and slated him as a developmental CB for now and he future (for cheaper than Brock/Cox and with potentially, much more upside) who should have made the 53. There was clearly room for one or the other and even both if you removed Stupar or Ventrone. CB's with Morris' speed and Coopers 6'2 195 frame are very hard to find esp. in the 7th round and who showed well. The Chiefs/Hawks did their research and many of our own fans see these moves as no big deal.

We shall see...


I, like you, had kept track of both Morris and Cooper. Both seemed intriguing but I was more interested in Morris, personally. Did you see his college film? Never mind his speed - which is amazing - but this guy takes FLAWLESS angles on tackles and when he gets there he's very aggressive. My only concern is his size. He would get DESTROYED by Megatron or Brandon Marshall but I still think he may have been one of the most athletic corners in the draft. Seriously man, if you haven't seen his tackling angles, go look up some highlights. What I couldn't quite figure out is where he would fit in because of his size.

I wasn't thrilled about losing a big corner like Cooper but I wasn't devastated.

For some reason Ventrone has a pretty bad rap around here. I guess people must not've paid attention to our special teams against the Rams. Ventrone made more than one big play and at least one good tackle on coverage. At one point even Mayock commented "...just follow the hair" referring to Ventrone flying to the ball consistently. We all saw what happened to our ST last season when we neglected it. We definitely could've used a Ventrone tackle during the Super Bowl last year...
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by DatNyjerSireez:
Threads like these wouldn't be here if Baalke was doing a s**tty job. You all should be thankful that were letting go of what we think are quality players instead of s**tty dudes that never had any business being on the roster in the first place.
we can cut through all of the blather about people being upset we traded two linebackers and let the corner get to kansas city. the only reason this thread exists is due to the fact we cut a favored son in daniels. for some reason there is a large faction here that is fanatically devoted to one player. That player is usually a scrub who will never do anything in the nfl but he got people excited in pre season vs other teams scrubs. How else can you explain so many people turning on JH who just last week was a miracle worker with a quarterback. Now he sucks? maybe they can not accept the fact that the niners have went back to the tried and true method of moving the ball which we saw last thursday. maybe they can not handle we will not be glittery in the way we operate now. maybe they do not like the fact that the read option is no longer the main weapon in the tool kit. bj did not fit that mold and he is gone
  • Kolohe
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Aside from the Cam Johnson move I don't lose sleep over the other moves, none of them say Nose Tackle anywhere/anyway.