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Can someone explain this to me??

Originally posted by SofaKing:
I hear ya. One thing to factor is that we are a pretty talented team. It's harder for late-round draft picks to crack the roster. They really have to be exceptional to stick around.

I honestly didn't see anything from Gray or Cooper to warrant a spot on our 53. Other teams with needs at their positions picked them up.

Daniels definitely flashed exciting potential. I wish we brought in Skelton sooner, so he would have had time to beat out McCoy for #2, and keep Daniels as the 3rd developmental QB. I have a hunch that was the plan in this case. We took a risk and hoped Daniels would clear waivers, he didn't.


No doubt we brought in Skelton to possibly upgrade our #2 quarterback position. No doubt this is important. However, short term needs sometimes have to be put aside for long term welfare.

Everybody and their grandmother wants to win NOW NOW NOW, of course, but it's the teams with patience and perseverance, who remain at the top for the long haul.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Oct 3, 2013 at 3:37 PM ]
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Gray, Cooper, Haralson, risked Morris, now lost Daniels...it's a fair question no matter how much you "trust the FO." And those moves are fine if we have epic players in front of them that force our hand. But Ventrone, Harper and Owen M. and others? I think it's a fair question esp. after the 2012 draft.


The part I don't get is, "Why draft them?" If we are just going to release them for "meh" free agents, what is the point of drafting them in the first place?

Gray, Cooper, Daniels. WHY draft them at all? If we're not interested in keeping young projects, I don't understand the logic of wasting draft picks on them. If we think that the bargain bin free agents are better, what is the point of drafting them, protecting them on the 53 etc.

"But we don't have confidence in Colt McCoy". Ok, so cut HIM. Don't cut the young guy playing for peanuts on a rookie contract.
And if you don't think that highly of him, then WHY draft him in the first place? WHY put him on the 53? We could have used some OT depth instead of wasting it on players who we're going to cut anyway.

Late round draft picks are valuable because they're CHEAP as dirt. You have them for four years. The economics of releasing them by the bushel doesn't make sense. None of it makes sense.

It doesn't hurt to cut late round picks. Most dont make it in the NFL. Daniels is a PROJECT QB. We messed up with Cooper I agree, but at the time, we ad 5 ahead of him. Gray was an UDFA, and also a PROJECT, played QB and WR at Minnesota.

Rather have more polished QBs as backups then a project. Only reason he went claimed was because Seattle did it out of spite. No other team wanted him.

As for others, the cap wont allow to keep guys like Haralson and Jennings. McCoy and Skelton count little against the cap in base salary. So Daniels was cheap, but he wasn't the backup for us. To question Baalke is laughable. When we(fans) dont know jacks**t about this stuff. We can only guess. Baalke is much smarter than everybody on this board, and every other board.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by threelittlebirds:
When we have a QB like Kaepernick... why are people so upset over roster shuffles for the 3rd QB?

He looked good in preseason? Who cares!! it is preseason and he was mostly facing scrubs and guys who didn't even make a 53-roster.

I guess it is just greed, and hoping that Daniels could eventually turn into something and the 49ers can get draft picks 3 or 4 years from now. Foolish.


Why DRAFT him? Why keep him on the 53 man ROSTER? This is cheap labor for years that we are just throwing away. Trade the picks for something. These are draft picks we are throwing away.

Most 7th round draft picks turn into "thrown away picks" anyways. Personally, I hate the idea of giving up Daniels for Skelton but I am guessing that Harbaugh went out and grabbed him because in 2011 Skelton beat the 49ers on some crazy lucky day where he threw 3 TDs. Tennessee was trying to pick up Skelton until Locker returns so I guess Harbaugh was trying to subvert another lucky win by Skelton.
Originally posted by AB81Rules:
It doesn't hurt to cut late round picks. Most dont make it in the NFL. Daniels is a PROJECT QB. We messed up with Cooper I agree, but at the time, we ad 5 ahead of him. Gray was an UDFA, and also a PROJECT, played QB and WR at Minnesota.

Rather have more polished QBs as backups then a project. Only reason he went claimed was because Seattle did it out of spite. No other team wanted him.

As for others, the cap wont allow to keep guys like Haralson and Jennings. McCoy and Skelton count little against the cap in base salary. So Daniels was cheap, but he wasn't the backup for us. To question Baalke is laughable. When we(fans) dont know jacks**t about this stuff. We can only guess. Baalke is much smarter than everybody on this board, and every other board.

Well, duh. LOL. I love Baalke...hell, I love the entire organization, top to bottom. But to just say Baalke "is much smarter than everybody on this board" is a little off b/c it's been well doumented this BOARD has made many decisions "smarter" than him, from the 2012 draft to more recently, getting back to our true identity. From personnel to identity, the GM has his hands in all of it. If Harbaugh is slipping and not developing CK properly to the point fans and media can "see it" it's his job to scale back Harbaughs load and refocus him on the task at hand. Nobody is questioning Baalke as the right man for the job but it's short-sighted to assume every decision he makes is correct b/c he's "smarter than everybody on the board." Heck, there are members on this board I would trust on draft day over him and for the most part, Baalke has been very good. That said, he continues to load this team up and creates competition and at this juncture, I'd place more onus on the coaches for not properly UTILIZING the personnel he's assembled well enough.

You want Chris Harper, Owen Marecic and Jon Baldwin? You better get these boys on the field and producing...in situations that highlight their strengths. Keep developing guys as best you can for as long as you can even if I "do" decide to pull one out from under you for what "I" feel is best for the team.
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 3, 2013 at 3:57 PM ]
Originally posted by threelittlebirds:
Most 7th round draft picks turn into "thrown away picks" anyways. Personally, I hate the idea of giving up Daniels for Skelton but I am guessing that Harbaugh went out and grabbed him because in 2011 Skelton beat the 49ers on some crazy lucky day where he threw 3 TDs. Tennessee was trying to pick up Skelton until Locker returns so I guess Harbaugh was trying to subvert another lucky win by Skelton.

That's a great point...most teams don't know about "diamonds in the rough" b/c they don't research them. The ones who DO know about them typically are burned by them in a pre season game (Tolzien for us and Hawkins for the Chargers). Irony? I think not...it's not that 30 other teams passed on BJ Daniels. It's that 30 other teams have no idea who he is (or had the time to research him at this junction of the season). Who did? The two teams who researched him...the 49ers who picked him and the Seahawks who wanted him...and then got him.
Originally posted by boast:
i remember when Seattle saw something in Nate Disav
thnik yu mistpeld his furs nam...btu knot shur.

Originally posted by redrathman:
1. He's bigger.
2. He has starting experience.
3. He's got a better arm.
4. He's just 25 years old.
5. He's a winner.

Skelton was able to produce winning records in his starts during his first two seasons behind the worst line in football. It's clear Harbaugh didn't like Daniels enough to keep him as his third.

We don't know enough about Daniels' work ethic and ability to pick up the system. Clearly, he wasn't worth a spot on the 53. Every other team in football had the opportunity to claim Daniels and Carroll was the only one who did.

I trust Harbaugh has more knowledge about NFL Quarterbacks in one finger then the collective knowledge of this forum.
So...other than facts what do you have?
Originally posted by AB81Rules:
It doesn't hurt to cut late round picks. Most dont make it in the NFL. Daniels is a PROJECT QB. We messed up with Cooper I agree, but at the time, we ad 5 ahead of him. Gray was an UDFA, and also a PROJECT, played QB and WR at Minnesota.

Rather have more polished QBs as backups then a project. Only reason he went claimed was because Seattle did it out of spite. No other team wanted him.

As for others, the cap wont allow to keep guys like Haralson and Jennings. McCoy and Skelton count little against the cap in base salary. So Daniels was cheap, but he wasn't the backup for us. To question Baalke is laughable. When we(fans) dont know jacks**t about this stuff. We can only guess. Baalke is much smarter than everybody on this board, and every other board.


You would rather have an experienced third string quarterback, then a young unknown project? Then where would you ever be able to stash an unknown project? Only on the practice squad? Unlikely. A quarterback who shows up well in the preseason games is not likely to last on a practice squad.
It's not beyond reason to have BJ as a number four, or to cut Colt McCoy, if we really like Skelton so much.

Door #1 "meh" Door #2 "meh" Door #3 "unknown". I would rather take my chances with the unknown. Although there is no doubt that we have upgraded for the short term, there is doubt about our long term strategy of releasing players on FOUR YEAR cheap labor contracts. We haven't signed Skelton for four years have we? No, because he's going to want to get paid next year if he has any kind of value as a backup. BJ Daniels, we didn't have to pay for FOUR YEARS. There is a big difference there. If he became a good backup, we would have had him locked up for three more years.

Cooper is now a #3 corner back on a team with excellent starting cornerbacks. They have him for FOUR YEARS of cheap labor. We are going to have to pay Brown a lot of money next year or release him. We might have to release Rogers next year. Could Brock be SO much better than Cooper? I don't see it. It would have been great to have Cooper somewhere on the depth chart for four years paying him peanuts.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Oct 3, 2013 at 4:09 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Well, duh. LOL. I love Baalke...hell, I love the entire organization, top to bottom. But to just say Baalke "is much smarter than everybody on this board" is a little off b/c it's been well doumented this BOARD has made many decisions "smarter" than him, from the 2012 draft to more recently, getting back to our true identity. From personnel to identity, the GM has his hands in all of it. If Harbaugh is slipping and not developing CK properly to the point fans and media can "see it" it's his job to scale back Harbaughs load and refocus him on the task at hand. Nobody is questioning Baalke as the right man for the job but it's short-sighted to assume every decision he makes is correct b/c he's "smarter than everybody on the board." Heck, there are members on this board I would trust on draft day over him and for the most part, Baalke has been very good. That said, he continues to load this team up and creates competition and at this juncture, I'd place more onus on the coaches for not properly UTILIZING the personnel he's assembled well enough.

You want Chris Harper, Owen Marecic and Jon Baldwin? You better get these boys on the field and producing...in situations that highlight their strengths. Keep developing guys as best you can for as long as you can even if I "do" decide to pull one out from under you for what "I" feel is best for the team.

NC...I don't think folks are saying Baalke and Harbaugh are smarter than the rest of the world or that they don't make mistakes, but it seems presumptuous to start pointing out mistakes so early in the season. Cam Johnson was one of my favorite young players but he wasn't as good as the guys ahead of him or some of the guys on the injury list who will be back, so it made sense to trade him and let him try and establish himself where he's got a chance. There will always be mistakes made...just the way the cookie crumbles. If they go light on WRs guess where the injuries will be? If, on the other hand, they go light on DE's guess where the injuries are bound to be?

Would love to have a situation where we could have stockpiles of players like the old Nebraska team had. Run two hundred guys out on the field in full uniforms...

I always respect your thought process, just think this is being over blown by some.
Originally posted by threelittlebirds:
Most 7th round draft picks turn into "thrown away picks" anyways. Personally, I hate the idea of giving up Daniels for Skelton but I am guessing that Harbaugh went out and grabbed him because in 2011 Skelton beat the 49ers on some crazy lucky day where he threw 3 TDs. Tennessee was trying to pick up Skelton until Locker returns so I guess Harbaugh was trying to subvert another lucky win by Skelton.


That is true, but most 7th round picks don't make NFL rosters. Ours did. Most 7th round picks don't play well in preseason. Our's did.

What does that mean? That means we might have a good player from the 7th round, who might be able to play in this league, and play in the league for FOUR YEARS for peanuts. How nice would it be to have a backup quarterback, playing on a cheap contract for the next three years? THAT is how you use leverage in the era of the salary cap. THAT is what the draft is for, in the era of the salary cap.

And then there's Cooper. He is the number three corner on a team with tons of corners. On a team that is 4-0. How do you let him walk, because Brock has more experience with the defense? Sometimes you just have to keep the talent, even if it lacks experience. ESPECIALLY in the salary cap era of football. The Chiefs now have a solid DB for FOUR YEARS of cheap labor. MAN that would have been nice for us.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Oct 3, 2013 at 4:18 PM ]
Originally posted by BrianGO:
That is true, but most 7th round picks don't make NFL rosters. Ours did. Most 7th round picks don't play well in preseason. Our's did.

What does that mean? That means we might have a good player from the 7th round, who might be able to play in this league, and play in the league for FOUR YEARS for peanuts. How nice would it be to have a backup quarterback, playing on a cheap contract for the next three years? THAT is how you use leverage in the era of the salary cap. THAT is what the draft is for, in the era of the salary cap.

And then there's Cooper. He is the number three corner on a team with tons of corners. On a team that is 4-0. How do you let him walk, because Brock has more experience with the defense? Sometimes you just have to keep the talent, even if it lacks experience. ESPECIALLY in the salary cap era of football. The Chiefs now have a solid DB for FOUR YEARS of cheap labor. MAN that would have been nice for us.

Ugh, the Cooper thing really stings... stings worse than giving up Daniels for Skelton. This is just my opinion, and I could be completely wrong, but if Manningham and Crabtree both come back healthy I expect them to trim down to only 2 QBs because at least the extra WR can be a part of special teams ... cough.. Osgood.

I think with both Cooper and Daniels, the 49ers were taking a risk that nobody else would want them and were hoping that as 7th round picks they'd clear waivers and the 9ers could stash them on the practice squad. Unfortunately the Chiefs must have liked what they saw from Cooper when the 49ers played them in preseason or already had him on their radar, and the Seahawks are just being doooshes and messing with the 49ers. I think they are just getting payback because the 49ers swiped Harper from them.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Well, duh. LOL. I love Baalke...hell, I love the entire organization, top to bottom. But to just say Baalke "is much smarter than everybody on this board" is a little off b/c it's been well doumented this BOARD has made many decisions "smarter" than him, from the 2012 draft to more recently, getting back to our true identity. From personnel to identity, the GM has his hands in all of it. If Harbaugh is slipping and not developing CK properly to the point fans and media can "see it" it's his job to scale back Harbaughs load and refocus him on the task at hand. Nobody is questioning Baalke as the right man for the job but it's short-sighted to assume every decision he makes is correct b/c he's "smarter than everybody on the board." Heck, there are members on this board I would trust on draft day over him and for the most part, Baalke has been very good. That said, he continues to load this team up and creates competition and at this juncture, I'd place more onus on the coaches for not properly UTILIZING the personnel he's assembled well enough.

You want Chris Harper, Owen Marecic and Jon Baldwin? You better get these boys on the field and producing...in situations that highlight their strengths. Keep developing guys as best you can for as long as you can even if I "do" decide to pull one out from under you for what "I" feel is best for the team.

NC...I don't think folks are saying Baalke and Harbaugh are smarter than the rest of the world or that they don't make mistakes, but it seems presumptuous to start pointing out mistakes so early in the season. Cam Johnson was one of my favorite young players but he wasn't as good as the guys ahead of him or some of the guys on the injury list who will be back, so it made sense to trade him and let him try and establish himself where he's got a chance. There will always be mistakes made...just the way the cookie crumbles. If they go light on WRs guess where the injuries will be? If, on the other hand, they go light on DE's guess where the injuries are bound to be?

Would love to have a situation where we could have stockpiles of players like the old Nebraska team had. Run two hundred guys out on the field in full uniforms...

I always respect your thought process, just think this is being over blown by some.

My man...agree, it is being overblown (by both sides). Time to move on!

But I do want to point out that I was BIG on Cooper and pitched hard on this board for him in my 53-projection after analyzing the pre season games; and I was probably the only one too d/t the limited snaps/exposure. So I'm not too nuts, right? Haha
Originally posted by NCommand:
My man...agree, it is being overblown (by both sides). Time to move on!

But I do want to point out that I was BIG on Cooper and pitched hard on this board for him in my 53-projection after analyzing the pre season games; and I was probably the only one too d/t the limited snaps/exposure. So I'm not too nuts, right? Haha

No! You're not nuts! LOL! Well...any more than the rest of us. Cooper is a guy you wish we could rethink but there will always be one every year or two. With Aldon gone for a while, any injury at OLB would make me a genius for wanting to keep Cam J. But I'm now looking at the next draft as a solidifying event, making this team a perennial power. With the addition of Reid, McDonald, Carradine and Lattimore this team has added four special players. Next year if they add another special DB, WR, NT and LB...wow! Keeping them will be impossible down the road...but that's to be expected.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
That is true, but most 7th round picks don't make NFL rosters. Ours did. Most 7th round picks don't play well in preseason. Our's did.

What does that mean? That means we might have a good player from the 7th round, who might be able to play in this league, and play in the league for FOUR YEARS for peanuts. How nice would it be to have a backup quarterback, playing on a cheap contract for the next three years? THAT is how you use leverage in the era of the salary cap. THAT is what the draft is for, in the era of the salary cap.

And then there's Cooper. He is the number three corner on a team with tons of corners. On a team that is 4-0. How do you let him walk, because Brock has more experience with the defense? Sometimes you just have to keep the talent, even if it lacks experience. ESPECIALLY in the salary cap era of football. The Chiefs now have a solid DB for FOUR YEARS of cheap labor. MAN that would have been nice for us.

Cooper has played ONE NFL GAME against a team who is 0-4 and was mostly covering a WR (Nicks) who had 0 catches the previous week. Let's not get too carried away. Did he do a great job in that one game? Of course. That's obvious but it takes more than one game before we can write him off as "the biggest loss". Tim Rattey threw for 417 yards in one game. Didn't do so well an any others.

I'm not saying Cooper is a scrub but let's keep some perspective here. He hasn't proven himself to be a shutdown corner in just one game. What he has shown is that he deserves another shot to prove that he is.

BTW, this is not just about your post. It seems that the popular opinion here is that he's a clear cut winner. That simply isn't the case yet.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,605
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
That is true, but most 7th round picks don't make NFL rosters. Ours did. Most 7th round picks don't play well in preseason. Our's did.

What does that mean? That means we might have a good player from the 7th round, who might be able to play in this league, and play in the league for FOUR YEARS for peanuts. How nice would it be to have a backup quarterback, playing on a cheap contract for the next three years? THAT is how you use leverage in the era of the salary cap. THAT is what the draft is for, in the era of the salary cap.

And then there's Cooper. He is the number three corner on a team with tons of corners. On a team that is 4-0. How do you let him walk, because Brock has more experience with the defense? Sometimes you just have to keep the talent, even if it lacks experience. ESPECIALLY in the salary cap era of football. The Chiefs now have a solid DB for FOUR YEARS of cheap labor. MAN that would have been nice for us.

Cooper has played ONE NFL GAME against a team who is 0-4 and was mostly covering a WR (Nicks) who had 0 catches the previous week. Let's not get too carried away. Did he do a great job in that one game? Of course. That's obvious but it takes more than one game before we can write him off as "the biggest loss". Tim Rattey threw for 417 yards in one game. Didn't do so well an any others.

I'm not saying Cooper is a scrub but let's keep some perspective here. He hasn't proven himself to be a shutdown corner in just one game. What he has shown is that he deserves another shot to prove that he is.

BTW, this is not just about your post. It seems that the popular opinion here is that he's a clear cut winner. That simply isn't the case yet.

Not sure what Cooper will do in the future, but right now I would rather have him more than Hawkins, Daniels, and Johnson combined.

I do think that losing Cooper will prove to be a mistake. But, as you said, it is early, so who really knows.
Originally posted by buck:
Not sure what Cooper will do in the future, but right now I would rather have him more than Hawkins, Daniels, and Johnson combined.

I do think that losing Cooper will prove to be a mistake. But, as you said, it is early, so who really knows.

I can't disagree with that. I just never understand how people make such big picture assessments based on 1 pixel. At least get enough to form a megapixel.
[ Edited by trellblaze on Oct 3, 2013 at 8:52 PM ]
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