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Can someone explain this to me??

Originally posted by buck:
The original claim was:

"Why does this organization continue to make questionable roster decisions... it seems everyone that is half way decent we are cutting or getting rid of...".

I will acknowledge that the claim is not well written, but Baalke and Harbaugh clearly have not been cutting or getting rid of everyone that is half way decent.

If you want to defend that claim go ahead. Be my guest.

Of course, it is reasonable and fair to question the moves the front office makes. But, that does not by any stretch of the imagination that every question raised is either fair or reasonable.

Yeah, I'm with you...

I just didn't think I took the OP's comment too literal here; just frustration with losing players he thought had real potential (whether now b/c of current needs or down the road). That said, I shouldn't speak for the OP. Either way, THAT claim is one I would never argue (that we are getting rid of everyone that is half-way decent).
  • buck
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Originally posted by Rascal:
No, no, no. You have not followed the exchanges between buck and I. He said I am serious, I said I am not. Even when I was serious, it wasn't just about the BJ move, it is the series of moves that NCommand has detailed.


I was in the exchange with you and I really could not tell if or when you were being serious.

It does seem, and quite often, that your dislike of the front office goes to point of wanting to have the team fail.

Maybe, the problem is my ability to comprehend, but maybe you are letting your frustrations get out of hand.
[ Edited by buck on Oct 3, 2013 at 12:08 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by jimmythegreekjr:
If you look at the top teams in the league, they are strictly pocket passers..ok.. Russel Wilson doesn't impress me...but Seattle's defense is carrying the team and the offsense has a good run game and the passing gets some lucky plays from time to time.

When we look at the 49ers this season, when Kaepernick has his running taken away from him, he's not that great a pocket passer. He doesn't read the field, find the openings doesn't bode that that well. Yes he's athletic..but in the long term, this inability to be a high precision passer, threading the needle, will finally catch up. Which brings us back to B J Daniel...5-11 and what kind of pocket passer is he? Probably not a very good one. He might have played really poorly in practice, not grasping the offense (or maybe there is a fly in the oitment...some secret the 49ers are not letting us know about him)

If Harbaugh was so keen on him he would have kept BJ Daniels at #3, and Skelton at #2 , and get rid of McCoy. He doesn't want those read-option plays he had last year. They don't work anymore.

Harbaugh should know that in order to win in this league, you have to be a pocket passer first..additional tools to run are an asset...

Is Harbaugh is concerned about Kaepernick as a long term pocket passer? He may be..To tell you the truth I am.

Therefore, BJ Daniels does not fit into the long term scheme of things. I think the 49ers knew he would be grabbed by another team before clearing waivers.

Very nice post! I think some on here would say though that Daniels looked like a mobile pocket passer in pre season. He's not just a read-option QB. He seemed to have good pocket feel and awareness, had a nice deep arching touch on the ball, kept plays alive, could run if needed, etc. A 3rd QB is a guy who you coach up on the finer points of QBing. He appeared to have all the raw abilities, maybe even more than McCoy on many levels but just needed that extra year to develop which is what we were probably hoping we could do under the Hawks radar en route to the PS. Right now, either in SF or Seattle, he seems to be a good, young developing QB that fits both current systems well.


I couldn't have put it better, NCommand !!

jimmythegreekjr, I think NCommand pretty much covered it. The thing is don't fall for the old misconception that "running QBs can't throw". I think you might be thinking along the lines of Tim Tebow, in that case yes he can't throw. But, I think BJ has shown he can be a pocket passer too, much like Russell Wilson disregard whether you are impressed with Wilson or not. The TD pass he threw to Chuck Jacobs was a high arching ball with touch. Ironically, the high arching deep ball and fades are the types of throws that Kap is not so great at and will need to work on.
Originally posted by buck:
I was in the exchange with you and I really could not tell if or when you were being serious.

It does seem, and quite often, that your dislike of the front office goes to point of wanting to have the team fail.

Maybe, the problem is my ability to comprehend, but maybe you are letting your frustrations get out of hand.


First of all, whether the team fails or not it has nothing to do with me.

If I don't like a move, I will say it, or conversely if I like a move I will say it too.

Your problem is you don't allow people to question with your usual line of you are not an NFL GM or coach.

I have told you many times, you are entitled to your opinion and so am I. You know from the onset whenever I make a criticism say on the FO or anything for that matter you would never agree anyway. There is no point to beat it to death.

You will notice if you instigate a comment, I don't even bother to comment on it cos is pointless.

But, on the contrary, if I post a comment, you are always first on the scene and will keep harping on it non-stop. That can be annoying. Or if you choose to keep doing it, I could just revert to just ignoring it. I am fine with that too.

As to whether I am always unhappy with the FO, that will depend on what they do. I only react to it. But, if you take a look at NCommand's list, it is quite long unfortunately.
  • buck
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Originally posted by Rascal:

But, I think BJ has shown he can be a pocket passer too, much like Russell Wilson disregard whether you are impressed with Wilson or not. The TD pass he threw to Chuck Jacobs was a high arching ball with touch.

Slow down a second.

First, we have not seen very much Daniels and what we have seen has been limited to preseason games.
At best, he has shown that he might be able to become a good quarterback.

Sometimes, we do not know the answers to questions and some times we do not even know the questions.

At this point, we do not know what Daniels will do in Seattle or what Skelton will do in SF.
At this point, we do not know why Daniels was released or why Skelton was signed.

We can list what we think could happen, but we should not confuse our anticipation of what could happen with reality.

In my experience, confusing the two leads to frustration, and when I am frustrated my reasoning capacity is limited.
When I am frustrated, I tend to make rash and irrational judgments.

When I have enough common sense it let things play out, I tend to learn more, and learning is a good thing.

Relax, maybe circumstances will unfold that allow us to see things more clearly. Maybe.
A big problem I had was getting rid of BJ. he played good in preaseason for a rookie and made some nice throws. i don't understand how skelton can possibly have more upside than this kid.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Rascal:

But, I think BJ has shown he can be a pocket passer too, much like Russell Wilson disregard whether you are impressed with Wilson or not. The TD pass he threw to Chuck Jacobs was a high arching ball with touch.

Slow down a second.

First, we have not seen very much Daniels and what we have seen has been limited to preseason games.
At best, he has shown that he might be able to become a good quarterback.

Sometimes, we do not know the answers to questions and some times we do not even know the questions.

At this point, we do not know what Daniels will do in Seattle or what Skelton will do in SF.
At this point, we do not know why Daniels was released or why Skelton was signed.

We can list what we think could happen, but we should not confuse our anticipation of what could happen with reality.

In my experience, confusing the two leads to frustration, and when I am frustrated my reasoning capacity is limited.
When I am frustrated, I tend to make rash and irrational judgments.

When I have enough common sense it let things play out, I tend to learn more, and learning is a good thing.

Relax, maybe circumstances will unfold that allow us to see things more clearly. Maybe.


I am relaxed. What is there not to be relaxed about when the kid has already been claimed by the Seahawks ? Even if he turns out to be a stud, is too God damn late.
  • buck
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by buck:
I was in the exchange with you and I really could not tell if or when you were being serious.

It does seem, and quite often, that your dislike of the front office goes to point of wanting to have the team fail.

Maybe, the problem is my ability to comprehend, but maybe you are letting your frustrations get out of hand.


First of all, whether the team fails or not it has nothing to do with me.

If I don't like a move, I will say it, or conversely if I like a move I will say it too.

Your problem is you don't allow people to question with your usual line of you are not an NFL GM or coach.

I have told you many times, you are entitled to your opinion and so am I. You know from the onset whenever I make a criticism say on the FO or anything for that matter you would never agree anyway. There is no point to beat it to death.

You will notice if you instigate a comment, I don't even bother to comment on it cos is pointless.

But, on the contrary, if I post a comment, you are always first on the scene and will keep harping on it non-stop. That can be annoying. Or if you choose to keep doing it, I could just revert to just ignoring it. I am fine with that too.

As to whether I am always unhappy with the FO, that will depend on what they do. I only react to it. But, if you take a look at NCommand's list, it is quite long unfortunately.

OK. thanks for the response.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by buck:
I was in the exchange with you and I really could not tell if or when you were being serious.

It does seem, and quite often, that your dislike of the front office goes to point of wanting to have the team fail.

Maybe, the problem is my ability to comprehend, but maybe you are letting your frustrations get out of hand.


First of all, whether the team fails or not it has nothing to do with me.

If I don't like a move, I will say it, or conversely if I like a move I will say it too.

Your problem is you don't allow people to question with your usual line of you are not an NFL GM or coach.

I have told you many times, you are entitled to your opinion and so am I. You know from the onset whenever I make a criticism say on the FO or anything for that matter you would never agree anyway. There is no point to beat it to death.

You will notice if you instigate a comment, I don't even bother to comment on it cos is pointless.

But, on the contrary, if I post a comment, you are always first on the scene and will keep harping on it non-stop. That can be annoying. Or if you choose to keep doing it, I could just revert to just ignoring it. I am fine with that too.

As to whether I am always unhappy with the FO, that will depend on what they do. I only react to it. But, if you take a look at NCommand's list, it is quite long unfortunately.

OK. thanks for the response.

Rascal doesn't even know I exist anymore. I AM THE SADS!

I think the saddest thing lost in all of this is that JIM HARBAUGH WAS AN NFL QUARTERBACK FOR 14 YEARS! I think he knows a lot when it comes to the guy that throws the ball, should probably trust his judgement.
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
A big problem I had was getting rid of BJ. he played good in preaseason for a rookie and made some nice throws. i don't understand how skelton can possibly have more upside than this kid.

1. He's bigger.
2. He has starting experience.
3. He's got a better arm.
4. He's just 25 years old.
5. He's a winner.

Skelton was able to produce winning records in his starts during his first two seasons behind the worst line in football. It's clear Harbaugh didn't like Daniels enough to keep him as his third.

We don't know enough about Daniels' work ethic and ability to pick up the system. Clearly, he wasn't worth a spot on the 53. Every other team in football had the opportunity to claim Daniels and Carroll was the only one who did.

I trust Harbaugh has more knowledge about NFL Quarterbacks in one finger then the collective knowledge of this forum.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by buck:
Let's look at some of the recent roster cuts that have been criticized

1. Lavelle Hawkins

Chargers signed WR Lavelle Hawkins after Malcolm Floyd was hurt. He has not played a game yet.

2. BJ Daniels

Daniels was released by 49ers. He was picked up off waivers by Seattle. He has not played a game yet.

3. Parys Haralson

Has played in 4 games and started 2. He has 2 solo tackles, 3 assists and 1 sack.

4. Cam Johnson

Johnson has played in four games for the Colts. He has 1 solo tackle.

5. Marcus Cooper

Has played in four games and he has started 1. He has 1 pass defended and 4 tackles. He has played well on special teams.

6. Brandon Jacobs

Jacobs has played in three games. He has rushed 11 times for 11 yards. Has one reception for 5 yards.


I am sure I missed somebody.

So, far it looks like Baalke made a mistake by not keeping Marcus Cooper.

Hawkins and Daniels have not played in a game yet this year.

The trades for Johnson and Haralson do not seem to be mistakes.

Jacobs has done next to nothing in New York.

Cooper (cb) appears to be the biggest loss. He filled in for Flowers over at KC...and did a solid job. Dems some shoes.

Cooper appears to be the ONLY loss. Let's call it for what it is. And even in the case of Cooper, I understand what the front office was thinking. They already had five and Cooper wasn't going to make the roster over any of the others. We'll see if Cooper holds up however. One of the webzone's favorite whipping boys, Tramaine Brock, had a great game last week as well.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by Rascal:

Rascal,

I recently read your forum post on 49erswebzone.com and would love to bring you on board despite your lack of professional scouting credentials and work history within high level organized football.

Regards,

Jed York


Dear Jed,

Many thanks for your offer. I would like to take the opportunity to say I am impressed with your open-minded approach to football. A parallel springs to mind, Bill Gates never even graduated from Havard and just look at what he has achieved. Likewise, I might not have any scouting experience in my resume, I am more than confident I will be able to perform an outstanding job to dissect and remedy your current talent evaluation issues.

Perhaps you can private message me whereby we can iron out the contract details.


Kind regards,

Rascal

Your commitment to the delusion is noted.

You are now King of Niner Talk.
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by Rascal:

Rascal,

I recently read your forum post on 49erswebzone.com and would love to bring you on board despite your lack of professional scouting credentials and work history within high level organized football.

Regards,

Jed York


Dear Jed,

Many thanks for your offer. I would like to take the opportunity to say I am impressed with your open-minded approach to football. A parallel springs to mind, Bill Gates never even graduated from Havard and just look at what he has achieved. Likewise, I might not have any scouting experience in my resume, I am more than confident I will be able to perform an outstanding job to dissect and remedy your current talent evaluation issues.

Perhaps you can private message me whereby we can iron out the contract details.


Kind regards,

Rascal

Your commitment to the delusion is noted.

You are now King of Niner Talk.

I figured this out a long time ago when Rascal predicted a Levi's Stadium-Russell Wilson PR fiasco in the off-season based off his YEARS of advertising experience.

Glad I'm not alone anymore.
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Rascal doesn't even know I exist anymore. I AM THE SADS!

I think the saddest thing lost in all of this is that JIM HARBAUGH WAS AN NFL QUARTERBACK FOR 14 YEARS! I think he knows a lot when it comes to the guy that throws the ball, should probably trust his judgement.

This can never be overstated enough!

That said, Baalke is the GM and makes the personnel decisions. He's the one who decides to keep coach-favorites such as Ventrone for Seely, Owen M. for Harbaugh, etc. But he's also the one to cut guys like Owen M. also. I have NO doubt there is regular communication between all of the coaches and GM over personnel. But it doesn't mean Baalke isn't going to make some unpopular moves among the coaching staff either (Cam Johnson was a favorite of Fangio). Another thing to consider in all of this is that Kaepernick has, so far, regressed quite a bit this season. Over in the CK thread, posters have identified a number of issues inlcuding poor mechanics, relying on arm strength, his feet, timing, etc. So if the argument is that Harbaugh is a QB-whisperer and knows who's got talent and doesn't, there are a number of factors that play into the decision to retain or rid the roster of one. And really, for all we know, Harbaugh himself may have wanted to retain Daniels and contiue to help develop him over starting from scratch with a new veteran who will have to unlearn a number of poor habits before starting with a clean slate and developing.

PS: Collie just signed with the Pats.
This can go on forever. Who knows if something went south with Daniels, or not. It would be bad form for the front office to publicly announce something like that so we will never know.

Personally, I liked him in preseason. He produced a couple of drives with the same icky mess of players and game plan that stymied Tolzhein and McCoy.

I was hoping he would get garbage time against the Rams. Oh well. We'll have a better sense of whether this was an irrelevant move, smart, or stupid by the end of the season. As I mentioned there's more urgent issues for the organization to deal with right now.
[ Edited by brodiebluebanaszak on Oct 3, 2013 at 1:35 PM ]