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Can someone explain this to me??

  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 24,151
Originally posted by Rascal:
Pete Carroll is not serious ? Definitely more serious than me if he is willing to sacrifice a spot on the 53 for BJ.

Why do you keep saying I am serious ? I already said let's start Skelton. I want to go in big time and bet for a loss so I can get that new Lambo. Have you seen an Aventador up close ? It costs over $800 grand here, so I could use more cash. I am thinking orange or black. What do you think ?
bud, you are now more insane than I ever have been you can not be reasoned with right now. all this because of a third round project? you act like you want ck to get hurt so we can bring in skeleton then you hope he fails so you can prove to the world how smart you are? not trying to put words in your mouth but that is where i am following these connect a dots to?
BJ Daniels was never gonna play this year.

Don't worry we can find the next BJ Daniels next year in the 7th round...
Originally posted by NCommand:
Wow, I was gone for 1/2 a day and this thread got derailed quickly!

Just to stay on point, "my" only issue is that many of thes players could be helping us at positions of need now while developing along the way and "could" pay off for us even more down the road. This is about a series of moves, not BJ Daniels!

The focus is on these players with US...if we had them right now...not where they currently are (which will takes weeks to get up to speed with their respective teams):
Gray - Dixon can't be an H-back and has slimmed down to play more RB this year. Gray appeared to have a nice skill set in the mold of Walker and if he could have learned to be a short yardage runner, proper blocking technique, etc. we could have had something here. We currently do not have an H-back.
Harper - still waiting to be activated...period. What's his role?
Ventrone - (sounds of crickets here)
Williams - to start at the X spot coming off an ACL. I consider this a personnel move b/c now, his role is already being dimisnished.
Owen - only brought in to be cut apparently?
Cooper - Baalke wanted to get bigger with he and Nnamdi. Nnamdi goes down and we sure could use Cooper now, at least developing behnd Cox/Brock.
Haralson - good move IMHO. He deserved to be a starter and we needed to cut $ (same with Jennings). Sadly he went to a 4-0 Saints team in the NFC. We get a late 7th.
Johnson - I guess there weren't enough red flags re: Aldon but he's done here for a while. Johnson's been training in this defense for a full year and would have been nice to have on punt block and coverage units and as another pass rusher. Instead we have to go get a guy off the streets in Cunningham. We get a late 7th.
Hawkins - not the sharpest tool in the shed. But that's what you need in your returner. LOL. He also seemed to have some potential as a slot guy as well. He signed with the Chargers.
Lockette - no biggie here but he was an excellent gunner and later, we got "size" with Baldwin instead. Brock/Cox and Spillman have been unimpressive in these roles so far (lots of penalties).
McCoy - meh move here but does make more sense "now" if we plan to go back to our roots more and be less mobile at the QB position.
Skelton - anyone seriously think he'll be pushing for the #2 in a year or two? Really? Many thought Daniels had that realistic chance.
Baldwin - good move; finally got on the field and caught a couple balls...but we're into game 5 now.
Morris - we risked him and then learned from Cooper that you don't take that risk with someone you think has real promise so we quickly moved him to the 53...and then we lost...
BJ Daniels - to this very same mentality. Obviously anyone with 1/2 a brain could see he would be picked up immedately by the Hawks. God fit for him. He could be pushing for the #2 this year or next.

It's fair to question this long series of moves (or non-moves) no matter how much you "trust the FO." But I'll tell you what, I'd much rather have many of these guys right now b/c of who's on the team now or b/c of our current need/situation. We stil have many more pressing needs at OT, NT and a pure FB behind Miller.

The thing I find comical are the comments re: what some of these players have done for other teams (so far) or that they'd never be activated here or the rationale for "supporting" these moves...it's the same rationale but on the other side of the coin. We ALL have very small sample sizes...this is used to justify ANY move this FO makes. On the other side, this small sample size is ALL we have and what we did see, we see potential to help out now or into the future.

Either way, let's hope all of these moves pan out for everyone (except for the Hawks and Saints) and keep perspective here...in 2 more weeks, we'll find out what reserves will come off the PUP/NFI list and then, we might see a bunch of these guys get kicked to the curb...hopefully, for the better!

Go Niners! Always...


Good post. That pretty much covers it.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,611
Originally posted by Rascal:
Good post. That pretty much covers it.

Now, there you go being serious again.
Originally posted by cciowa:
bud, you are now more insane than I ever have been you can not be reasoned with right now. all this because of a third round project? you act like you want ck to get hurt so we can bring in skeleton then you hope he fails so you can prove to the world how smart you are? not trying to put words in your mouth but that is where i am following these connect a dots to?


Hey, don't put words in my mouth. Where did I say I want Kap to get hurt ?

If you are not clear, ask and don't make assumptions.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Wow, I was gone for 1/2 a day and this thread got derailed quickly!

Read the original post again. The original poster could not have been serious.

We have not cut or gotten rid of all the half decent players on the roster.

LMAO! "Why does this organization continue to make questionable roster decisions... it seems everyone that is half way decent we are cutting or getting rid of..."

Its fair and reasonable to question many of the FO moves (Lord knows we have made 200 of them since I started my Team Needs thread in the off season)...I can also understand the frustration with losing guys in our AA an AAA farm clubs (so-to-speak) for nothing or next to nothing (late 7th rounders) but like another poster noted, its really the 46 we should be most focused on (and what happens after week 6). We can see how these players do on other teams (not really fair but it's all we have now) and revist this thread at a later date like we did with both the 2011 and 2012 drafts. It's a similar concept. In the end, let's just hope all these personnel moves are what's best for the team!
Originally posted by Rizvi49er:
BJ Daniels was never gonna play this year.

Don't worry we can find the next BJ Daniels next year in the 7th round...

You guys really are missing the boat on this one. For a 3rd string QB you've developed to this point, you're hope is that he climbs up to #2 at some point NEXT YEAR or has the skill set to hold the fort down if the #1 & #2 get hurt. Nothing more. The flip side is consider all the players WE have brought in that haven't been activated THIS YEAR. It's all about current team needs and development (while playing now or not) and for down the road. Johnson is a guy we developed for a year and 1/2 and then gave him to another team. You think we'll pick up a 7th next year and he'll be ready to go as a backup next year and he'll be further along than BJ Daniels is now (or in a yer from now under our system)? That's backwards thinking IMHO.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 24,151
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by cciowa:
bud, you are now more insane than I ever have been you can not be reasoned with right now. all this because of a third round project? you act like you want ck to get hurt so we can bring in skeleton then you hope he fails so you can prove to the world how smart you are? not trying to put words in your mouth but that is where i am following these connect a dots to?


Hey, don't put words in my mouth. Where did I say I want Kap to get hurt ?

If you are not clear, ask and don't make assumptions.
well, you seem to be foaming at the mouth wanting skeleton to come in so i assume that means ck would have to be hurt? when someone asks you if you are serious,, you say you are dead serious so i have to take you at your word.I am sorry but for you to get worked up into a complete rabid lather because we just cut a third round project i just assume you are being silly
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Good post. That pretty much covers it.

Now, there you go being serious again.


Oh sure, when I like a post, I have to give credit where credit is due. Got to give props to fellow posters who are on point.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
I don't think BJ Daniels will be taking Tavaris Jackson's place anytime soon.

I would hope not...he just got there. This isn't about today...it's a 3rd string QB with potential to move up the ranks over the next year or two. Jackson is 75 years old so one could conclude that if Daniels continues to be developed, he'll have a good shot for the #2 next year (sort of what many thought about our current situation behind CK for next year).


Sure, he could move up the ranks. He could also be cut, end up on someone's practice squad, etc. We simply don't know enough about him. I think Harbaugh would have liked to have been able to put him on the practice squad and then move him up to the 53-man again. I just think Harbaugh was so concerned about McCoy being backup to CK that he felt he HAD to bring in someone else as BJ is not ready to take on that role presently. Sometimes things simply don't pan out exactly the way we want them, but Harbaugh also knew he wasn't going to lose any sleep if another team ended up snatching BJ.
If you look at the top teams in the league, they are strictly pocket passers..ok.. Russel Wilson doesn't impress me...but Seattle's defense is carrying the team and the offsense has a good run game and the passing gets some lucky plays from time to time.

When we look at the 49ers this season, when Kaepernick has his running taken away from him, he's not that great a pocket passer. He doesn't read the field, find the openings doesn't bode that that well. Yes he's athletic..but in the long term, this inability to be a high precision passer, threading the needle, will finally catch up. Which brings us back to B J Daniel...5-11 and what kind of pocket passer is he? Probably not a very good one. He might have played really poorly in practice, not grasping the offense (or maybe there is a fly in the oitment...some secret the 49ers are not letting us know about him)

If Harbaugh was so keen on him he would have kept BJ Daniels at #3, and Skelton at #2 , and get rid of McCoy. He doesn't want those read-option plays he had last year. They don't work anymore.

Harbaugh should know that in order to win in this league, you have to be a pocket passer first..additional tools to run are an asset...

Is Harbaugh is concerned about Kaepernick as a long term pocket passer? He may be..To tell you the truth I am.

Therefore, BJ Daniels does not fit into the long term scheme of things. I think the 49ers knew he would be grabbed by another team before clearing waivers.
Originally posted by cciowa:
well, you seem to be foaming at the mouth wanting skeleton to come in so i assume that means ck would have to be hurt? when someone asks you if you are serious,, you say you are dead serious so i have to take you at your word.I am sorry but for you to get worked up into a complete rabid lather because we just cut a third round project i just assume you are being silly


No, no, no. You have not followed the exchanges between buck and I. He said I am serious, I said I am not. Even when I was serious, it wasn't just about the BJ move, it is the series of moves that NCommand has detailed.
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
I don't think BJ Daniels will be taking Tavaris Jackson's place anytime soon.

I would hope not...he just got there. This isn't about today...it's a 3rd string QB with potential to move up the ranks over the next year or two. Jackson is 75 years old so one could conclude that if Daniels continues to be developed, he'll have a good shot for the #2 next year (sort of what many thought about our current situation behind CK for next year).


Sure, he could move up the ranks. He could also be cut, end up on someone's practice squad, etc. We simply don't know enough about him. I think Harbaugh would have liked to have been able to put him on the practice squad and then move him up to the 53-man again. I just think Harbaugh was so concerned about McCoy being backup to CK that he felt he HAD to bring in someone else as BJ is not ready to take on that role presently. Sometimes things simply don't pan out exactly the way we want them, but Harbaugh also knew he wasn't going to lose any sleep if another team ended up snatching BJ.

Agreed! I think this was a now-later move:
Now: We wanted a more experienced veteran to be a #3 JUST in case something were to happen to CK or McCoy...and adding a veteran would continue to push McCoy.
Later: The hope was we'd sneak Daniels onto the PS and then bring him back up to the 53 if Skelton sucked (wasn't learning the offense fast enough) or even next year where he'd genuinely compete for the #2.
Risk: The risk is that you see enough talent in him to keep him on the 53 or PS, the coaches put in many hours to develop him, he works hard, did all he could do in his limited snaps/time but the now-later move back fires and you lose him altogether. And that is exactly what happened here. That is what has happened to Cooper.

It's a risk all great teams/FO's need to weigh...
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,611
Originally posted by NCommand:
LMAO! "Why does this organization continue to make questionable roster decisions... it seems everyone that is half way decent we are cutting or getting rid of..."

Its fair and reasonable to question many of the FO moves (Lord knows we have made 200 of them since I started my Team Needs thread in the off season)...I can also understand the frustration with losing guys in our AA an AAA farm clubs (so-to-speak) for nothing or next to nothing (late 7th rounders) but like another poster noted, its really the 46 we should be most focused on (and what happens after week 6). We can see how these players do on other teams (not really fair but it's all we have now) and revist this thread at a later date like we did with both the 2011 and 2012 drafts. It's a similar concept. In the end, let's just hope all these personnel moves are what's best for the team!

The original claim was:

"Why does this organization continue to make questionable roster decisions... it seems everyone that is half way decent we are cutting or getting rid of...".

I will acknowledge that the claim is not well written, but Baalke and Harbaugh clearly have not been cutting or getting rid of everyone that is half way decent.

If you want to defend that claim go ahead. Be my guest.

Of course, it is reasonable and fair to question the moves the front office makes. But, that does not by any stretch of the imagination that every question raised is either fair or reasonable.
Originally posted by jimmythegreekjr:
If you look at the top teams in the league, they are strictly pocket passers..ok.. Russel Wilson doesn't impress me...but Seattle's defense is carrying the team and the offsense has a good run game and the passing gets some lucky plays from time to time.

When we look at the 49ers this season, when Kaepernick has his running taken away from him, he's not that great a pocket passer. He doesn't read the field, find the openings doesn't bode that that well. Yes he's athletic..but in the long term, this inability to be a high precision passer, threading the needle, will finally catch up. Which brings us back to B J Daniel...5-11 and what kind of pocket passer is he? Probably not a very good one. He might have played really poorly in practice, not grasping the offense (or maybe there is a fly in the oitment...some secret the 49ers are not letting us know about him)

If Harbaugh was so keen on him he would have kept BJ Daniels at #3, and Skelton at #2 , and get rid of McCoy. He doesn't want those read-option plays he had last year. They don't work anymore.

Harbaugh should know that in order to win in this league, you have to be a pocket passer first..additional tools to run are an asset...

Is Harbaugh is concerned about Kaepernick as a long term pocket passer? He may be..To tell you the truth I am.

Therefore, BJ Daniels does not fit into the long term scheme of things. I think the 49ers knew he would be grabbed by another team before clearing waivers.

Very nice post! I think some on here would say though that Daniels looked like a mobile pocket passer in pre season. He's not just a read-option QB. He seemed to have good pocket feel and awareness, had a nice deep arching touch on the ball, kept plays alive, could run if needed, etc. A 3rd QB is a guy who you coach up on the finer points of QBing. He appeared to have all the raw abilities, maybe even more than McCoy on many levels but just needed that extra year to develop which is what we were probably hoping we could do under the Hawks radar en route to the PS. Right now, either in SF or Seattle, he seems to be a good, young developing QB that fits both current systems well.