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We're giving up an average of 28 points per game over the last 9 games

without a good secondary blitzing might not be a good idea
I don't want to hear about the defense. It isn't perfect and never was. The problem we have been dealing with in our losses is not about the defense. It is about the inept offense to score points AND turning the ball over to the opponent in unfavorable field position.
The answer is always somewhere in between extremes. Football is the ultimate team game with every facet connected to each other...offense affects the defense, defense affects the offense, ST, play calling, culture of the game, personnel packages, etc.

The thing this defense used to pride itself on was NOT giving up the TD's esp. on the ground in the RZ...we'd give up huge yards though; bend but don't break, but once inside the RZ, we only gave up FG's. While we did play much better offensive teams over this stretch, the results are all the same and that is we ARE giving up those TD's now, both in the air (Whitner alone gave up 13 TD's last year plus had responsibility on the first 3 TD's in the Superbowl, as a quick reference) and we are also giving up easy TD's on the ground inside the 10, typically, right up the gut. This is the most well conditioned team in football and we are only into week 3. We also have a deep rotation of quality players compared to last year. While I'm willing to concede the offense has NOT helped the defense esp. over the past two games, the end result in each of these games (and dating back) have been the same. We ARE giving up those TD's. And THAT is not a championship defense. We have serious problems on defense and they shouldn't be minimized b/c the offensive issues are more glaring "right now."

Many of those issues have been highlighted in other threads (no two-gap NT or rotation, lack of quality DE depth or rotation, out-muscled against power running teams, getting beat up, teams running right at Justin/Aldon with success, CB's are small and weak, untimely penalties, playing "dumb," blown assignments, missed tackles, using the personnel incorrectly; to their weaknesses, critical injuries to the top three positions in NT, CB and ILB/OLB, huge drop off on INT's and PD's, etc.). B/c we have been unable to get off the field on 3rd downs d/t an inability to stop the run, the defense has also contributed to their own demise late in 4Q and the offense has been counterproductive in helping them as well.

The defense has and has HAD serious issues for some time now that many of us have been highlighting...and the offense and coahing decisions aren't helping matters.
[ Edited by NCommand on Sep 24, 2013 at 8:01 AM ]
I'm not sure if this thread or the replies are a shot at the qb or the offense in general but correct me if I'm wrong but I remember our previous qb had 3 & out issues too. If this is a shot at the whole offense in general coo but if it's a shot at the qb, gtfoh. The playcalling sucks(coaching), Kaep's fn(kin up, WRs' can't get open & the oline is fn(kin too. The position doing their jobs is the RBs'.
[ Edited by calinig4life on Sep 24, 2013 at 7:59 AM ]
Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:
Originally posted by 9erempire:
Defense hasn't been the same since we made the QB switch and ran a higher tempo risk-taking offense. I think there is a correlation between the two because the defense is out on the field more so than before.

We need to get that methodical WCO control type offense.

Originally posted by trellblaze:
I think the problem with our Defense is our Offense (time of possession and field position?).

Originally posted by Forkenick:
The offense is the problem. It is giving too many possessions to the opposing team. Our defense can only stop so many drives in a game while the offense flounders.

Exactly the PROBLEM is!!!!

  • cciowa
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3 and outs is the main reason for that.. now we also have not tackled very well,, there is no excuse not to have some sort of a pass rush last sunday vs a makeshift line, we continue to give other teams, what looks like,, wide open holes in the midde of the defense where the wide outs can just camp out,, and our drive extending penalties are huge. I know many are ultra sensitive about our defense but they have been gashed to and now we have alot of first stringers MIA
The defense has gotten a little soft and the pass rush is not what it was. We need to be more creative in applying pressure instead of just doing the same thing every down.
I haven't read any of the preceding posts, but I'm sure there's a handful of level-headed fans who agree that our defense has looked stout through most of these losses. All up to point they wore down from being on the field for nearly the entire 60 minutes. Those 3-and-outs will do that to you.
Originally posted by PrisonOfGlass:
I haven't read any of the preceding posts, but I'm sure there's a handful of level-headed fans who agree that our defense has looked stout through most of these losses. All up to point they wore down from being on the field for nearly the entire 60 minutes. Those 3-and-outs will do that to you.

Yes understandable but a great defense should also force more 3 and outs.
Originally posted by NCommand:
The answer is always somewhere in between extremes. Football is the ultimate team game with every facet connected to each other...offense affects the defense, defense affects the offense, ST, play calling, culture of the game, personnel packages, etc.

The thing this defense used to pride itself on was NOT giving up the TD's esp. on the ground in the RZ...we'd give up huge yards though; bend but don't break, but once inside the RZ, we only gave up FG's. While we did play much better offensive teams over this stretch, the results are all the same and that is we ARE giving up those TD's now, both in the air (Whitner alone gave up 13 TD's last year plus had responsibility on the first 3 TD's in the Superbowl, as a quick reference) and we are also giving up easy TD's on the ground inside the 10, typically, right up the gut. This is the most well conditioned team in football and we are only into week 3. We also have a deep rotation of quality players compared to last year. While I'm willing to concede the offense has NOT helped the defense esp. over the past two games, the end result in each of these games (and dating back) have been the same. We ARE giving up those TD's. And THAT is not a championship defense. We have serious problems on defense and they shouldn't be minimized b/c the offensive issues are more glaring "right now."

Many of those issues have been highlighted in other threads (no two-gap NT or rotation, lack of quality DE depth or rotation, out-muscled against power running teams, getting beat up, teams running right at Justin/Aldon with success, CB's are small and weak, untimely penalties, playing "dumb," blown assignments, missed tackles, using the personnel incorrectly; to their weaknesses, critical injuries to the top three positions in NT, CB and ILB/OLB, huge drop off on INT's and PD's, etc.). B/c we have been unable to get off the field on 3rd downs d/t an inability to stop the run, the defense has also contributed to their own demise late in 4Q and the offense has been counterproductive in helping them as well.

The defense has and has HAD serious issues for some time now that many of us have been highlighting...and the offense and coahing decisions aren't helping matters.


I agree. To just blanketly write off the defense's performance as "fine" and primarily the fault of the offense is shortsighted at best. The bend-don't-break style usually gave up yards through the air, but once the opposing team got down inside the red zone, 49er D would stiffen and almost NEVER allowed rushing TDs. Now it's becoming a regular occurrence. Regardless of what the score was at particular point of the game over the past two weeks, it should be pretty alarming to any 49er fan how the cornerstone of this defense--the front 7's ability to stuff the run--has been gouged, giving up 170+ yds in consecutive games.

And I'll say it again, Lacy was getting chunk yardage in the 4th qtr of the GB game. I have no doubt they're getting tired late in games, due in part to bad 49er offense, lack of consistent/effective rotation, not creating turnovers, etc. But were they that tired in the first half vs SEA and Indy? Those teams had 100+ and 65 yds rushing in the 1st half. I'd love to see a chart on rushing yards surrendered in the nickel, because my guess that's where the bulk of the yards are coming from.

I do agree with others saying the defense will, almost by default, get "better" once the offense/HarMan extricate their heads from hind end. But I don't think it's a cure-all, and there's still a lot to get cleaned up to get this D back among the "elite", not to mention having to deal with all the injuries. And rehab.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by susweel:
Yes understandable but a great defense should also force more 3 and outs.

and rush the passer and not struggle to make tackles in the first half when they are rested and not make so many drive extending penalties and do better on third down
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by susweel:
Yes understandable but a great defense should also force more 3 and outs.

and rush the passer and not struggle to make tackles in the first half when they are rested and not make so many drive extending penalties and do better on third down

Yes opening drive of the game Indy takes the balls and stuffs down their asses. I dont think 3 and outs had anything to do with that.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by susweel:
Yes understandable but a great defense should also force more 3 and outs.

and rush the passer and not struggle to make tackles in the first half when they are rested and not make so many drive extending penalties and do better on third down

Yes opening drive of the game Indy takes the balls and stuffs down their asses. I dont think 3 and outs had anything to do with that.
sus is right, overlooked is the fact that teams are starting out well against a well rested defense. what we needed at home was a three and out but no. that want is now increased tenfold thursday on the road against a well coached team. we have missed so many tackles it is pathetic. and as sus said,, it is not only taking place when the defense is "tired"
Interesting to know what % of these points were scored in the 2nd half or 4th quarter. If the opposing team's offense is on the field for 35-40mins, defense is out of breath.

If the defense is giving up points in the 1st half, that's another problem.
Originally posted by mayo49:
We were top 10 in run defense and that has disappeared these last 3 games. We're not as stout as we were with Soap and RJF. We have to get better or it's going to be a long season for the defense getting off the field.

It really hurts when you lose you starting NT to a questionable cut block week 2 his 1st game starting