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Our coaching staff is too arrogant....

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by 9erempire:
Something is definitely wrong with our coaching staff when they failed to land Peyton freaking Manning. Manning probably didn't like how stubborn our coaches are. He was probably going to be forced to run Harbaugh and Roman's offense.

Can you believe it? He chose John Fox over Harbs and company and at the time, Denver was a crappy team compared to our NFC championship team.

It has to make you wonder how these guys are in real life.

This is b******t........to be kind. There's no telling what happened with the Manning situation, all that we do know is that Denver rolled out the red carpets for him, offered him an insane amount of money and basically gave him veto power over the offense. Why would anyone turn that down? I don't believe that any other team could have competed with Denver on what they were offering, especially on the financial part. Also, Denver was a playoff team at the time, one with a loaded defense and good players on offense.

I was very sure that if the 49ers offered Manning $18 million/year, the Broncos could easily up the pay to $20 million. They had close to $30 million in cap room last season. The Broncos also had a huge advantage over the 49ers: Manning can be THE MAN. With SF, he'd have to contend with Jim Harbaugh.
Originally posted by THEMerts80:
I think when an Ex-NFL QB-Coach inherits the best defense in the league and improves the offense slightly more than what two offensively challenged head coaches had done perviously that is going to equal winning seasons. Fact of the matter is that the Cowboy is the main Cog/MVP of this defense and the defense has lost a lot of luster from the previous year due to age, no change in scheme, and free agency exits (Goldson, etc.). Think about it, I bet you all hate Rex Ryan more than anyone and he took the s**tty Jets to the AFC championship game two seasons in a row, technically Harbaugh has only gotten one step further so far. I think the winning ways of the past were a bit of a marriage due to half the games being won were by Akers foot. I would say in the past I liked Harbaugh more but I still had the same philosophy feelings that I mentioned above in my previous rant.

There's no denying that he inherited a great team. Still, how did that team do in the W-L category before he got here?

As for the D, well first of all, VERY FEW defenses maintain the level of play as our 2011 D for multiple seasons. Our D is STILL one of the tops in the league and is most definitely good enough to win a championship IF the Offense does its job - which is the main reason for the defensive decline this season - along with special teams play. Harbaugh's first magical year? Special teams was the best in the league by far and our time of possession was amazing. This season so far we're near the bottom in both categories. You don't think that would have a major effect on our D? What was the average field position in the Colts game?

Even if this season turns out to be mediocre, you still have one lackluster season vs 2 NFC Championship appearances. Is that enough to warrant a change in coaching staff?
Originally posted by mebemused:
Kudos to Peyton Manning, looks like he made the right choice.

Clearly, there is a disconnect between what plays Greg Roman thinks will succeed, and the result of that play. Defenses are crashing the gaps and disrupting our blocking schemes before they can start. Of course, crashing gaps leave defenses vulnerable to screens, draws, and traps, but we haven't called many. Against the Colts, we threw one bubble screen to Hunter.

I have no idea why Roman went away from the I formation that was successful early in the Colt's game.

Kaep, with his strong arm and sculpted physique, wants to go mano e mano against an opponent. So if he can throw a laser pass 20 yards down field, he much prefers to beat you with his strength. I remember in the Superbowl, Flaco lobbed a couple of bombs and let his receiver adjust to the ball. I've never seen Kaep throw a true lob pass deep. Most are throws that arrive on a roop. Last week, Wilson lobbed a throw to Lynch that went for a walk in TD. Hopefully, as Kaep matures, he will use all the throwing trajectories available to a QB.

As was said earlier, we haven't seen many slants or quick 3 step drop and throw passes. The longer passes that Kaep favors, and may audible into, require a 5 step drop, and more time to develop. Kaep was sacked 3 or 4 times against the Colts. Each one killed a drive. Either the 49ers are too confident about their vaunted offensive line, or Kaep is allowed to make the subset of throws that he likes to make. In contrast, Luck, who also has a big arm threw quick, 3 step drops, and rarely had a pass completion over 10 yards. The 25 yard gain to Reggie Wayne came off a 2 yard reception. That was Alex Smith's formula.

No matter how breathtaking Kaeps laser throws, if those are the only throws he can make, it makes the job of the secondary easier. As Kaep matures and can be accurate with all the throws, than he will be the nightmare for defenses that Roman and Harbaugh think he is right now.

In the Colt game, he often had receivers out of the backfield open in the flat, but by the time he checked through all his reads, someone on the D was converging on the wide open running back. Plus, Kaep's touch throws lack accuracy.

Good post. Lots of reasonable points.

The above is new though. He was perfect last year with touch throws. One reason why I was excited.
I had never thought about it until you mentioned it.

Well, if you can remember about the Super Bowl debacle, Roman never apologized or said anything to show he was remotely sorry for the disastrous playcalling.

Likewise, I just watched the latest Harbaugh interview, when asked why he stopped running the ball in the 2nd half after the TD, he didn't even have the guts to admit from hindsight it might have made more sense to call for run plays. He just said again it was how they wanted to call the plays.

So, I guess yes you can call that arrogance with no sense of accountability.
I still don't understand why you bring in a guy like Baldwin with his size and put him on the bench. If guys are healthy and can help the team, use them. The learning the playbook deal is old. These guys have been playing ball most of there lives. It sure didn't take Richardson long to run against us as well as he did. Put Baldwin out on the field and see what he can do. It can't be any worse than what's out there now.
Originally posted by SportsFan:
Or play James a la Sproles. Get him on some screen passes.

Screen pass? What's that???

/sarcasm
Originally posted by fastforward:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by 9erempire:
Something is definitely wrong with our coaching staff when they failed to land Peyton freaking Manning. Manning probably didn't like how stubborn our coaches are. He was probably going to be forced to run Harbaugh and Roman's offense.

Can you believe it? He chose John Fox over Harbs and company and at the time, Denver was a crappy team compared to our NFC championship team.

It has to make you wonder how these guys are in real life.

This is b******t........to be kind. There's no telling what happened with the Manning situation, all that we do know is that Denver rolled out the red carpets for him, offered him an insane amount of money and basically gave him veto power over the offense. Why would anyone turn that down? I don't believe that any other team could have competed with Denver on what they were offering, especially on the financial part. Also, Denver was a playoff team at the time, one with a loaded defense and good players on offense.

I was very sure that if the 49ers offered Manning $18 million/year, the Broncos could easily up the pay to $20 million. They had close to $30 million in cap room last season. The Broncos also had a huge advantage over the 49ers: Manning can be THE MAN. With SF, he'd have to contend with Jim Harbaugh.

Denver is in the AFC. San Fran - and Eli - are in the NFC. To me, that's why he ultimately chose Denver. Not because he didn't want to contend with Harbaugh or Roman.
Originally posted by 9erempire:
Their arrogance have hurt the very team we root for. After 3 years of Harbaugh and his coaching staff I have come to realized they are very stubborn. There is no doubt that they will do anything to win but their lack of adjustments in the game is pure arrogance. They would rather lose doing it their way than make any adjustments during the game to win.

As good as coaches they are, they have seemingly gotten out coached by any competent coach in the league. They run the pistol option and feel like their game plan is bullet proof but when a coach like Carrol figures them out, they don't want to admit to being out-smarted so they continue with their game plan like it's better than the other teams'.

Our scoring drive against the Colts is a perfect example of this. They drove the ball and dominated on that series but they like to go back to their damn original game plan because they refuse to admit how their game plan is a failure. Pure madness, how can you stop running what's working?

Well put. I agree.
I don't usually feed the negative, but I actually agree with this.

It's my sincerest hope that this finally serves as a wake-up call. Especially with all of the missing pieces (e.g., injury or suspension), it may be time to get back to our roots -- ball control, disciplined defense, sound special teams, and selective big-play selections. Our success resides in being Methodical.
Originally posted by olapac:
Originally posted by fastforward:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by 9erempire:
Something is definitely wrong with our coaching staff when they failed to land Peyton freaking Manning. Manning probably didn't like how stubborn our coaches are. He was probably going to be forced to run Harbaugh and Roman's offense.

Can you believe it? He chose John Fox over Harbs and company and at the time, Denver was a crappy team compared to our NFC championship team.

It has to make you wonder how these guys are in real life.

This is b******t........to be kind. There's no telling what happened with the Manning situation, all that we do know is that Denver rolled out the red carpets for him, offered him an insane amount of money and basically gave him veto power over the offense. Why would anyone turn that down? I don't believe that any other team could have competed with Denver on what they were offering, especially on the financial part. Also, Denver was a playoff team at the time, one with a loaded defense and good players on offense.

I was very sure that if the 49ers offered Manning $18 million/year, the Broncos could easily up the pay to $20 million. They had close to $30 million in cap room last season. The Broncos also had a huge advantage over the 49ers: Manning can be THE MAN. With SF, he'd have to contend with Jim Harbaugh.

Denver is in the AFC. San Fran - and Eli - are in the NFC. To me, that's why he ultimately chose Denver. Not because he didn't want to contend with Harbaugh or Roman.

yeah he didnt want to be in the same conference as his brother, just like jim and john prefer to be in opposite conferences.
[ Edited by crabman82 on Sep 24, 2013 at 11:17 AM ]
WAT too much over-reaction about JH.

He didn't all of a sudden become a terrible coach. I think, as someone else mentioned, he is stubborn and hopefully it's a good kick in the ass and he wakes up.

His and his coaching staff's shortcoming is a failure to make adjustments when needed.

Peyton put on a clinic of short, 5-7 yard passes that made me early WCO days. When Joe would hit Ring, Waters or Craig for 5 yards and keep the chains moving. We need to go back to that.
Honeymoon is over for Harbaugh. Give it a few more losses, and s**t's gonna get real.
The arrogance is palpable and it's not going to bode well for Harbaugh if things continue to go south. People tolerated it as long as the team was winning, but they won't if the team is losing, and Harbaugh cops some childish "my way or the highway" attitude about it.

There's already a sizable section of both the fanbase and the media that dislikes him...it's going to get ugly for him fast.
Start winning Harbs, and no one's gonna care if you're an a*****e.
Originally posted by 9erempire:
Their arrogance have hurt the very team we root for. After 3 years of Harbaugh and his coaching staff I have come to realized they are very stubborn. There is no doubt that they will do anything to win but their lack of adjustments in the game is pure arrogance. They would rather lose doing it their way than make any adjustments during the game to win.

As good as coaches they are, they have seemingly gotten out coached by any competent coach in the league. They run the pistol option and feel like their game plan is bullet proof but when a coach like Carrol figures them out, they don't want to admit to being out-smarted so they continue with their game plan like it's better than the other teams'.

Our scoring drive against the Colts is a perfect example of this. They drove the ball and dominated on that series but they like to go back to their damn original game plan because they refuse to admit how their game plan is a failure. Pure madness, how can you stop running what's working?

Oh, good lord. After two of the most successful seasons to begin an NFL head coaching career, you are going to sit here and lay this entire thing on them and blame the past two weeks on a lack of adjustments? Did you watch the games? Our guys are getting beat on both sides of the ball in the trenches. Our WRs are not getting ANY separation from man coverage. Kap is forced to try to put the ball into the tightest of windows, and when that doesn't work, he starts letting the ball fly towards the end of the game to see if ANYTHING works (aside from the first INT in the SEA game, every INT he has thrown has been when we were way behind and he was trying to get something going). Let's not forget the horrific amount of game changing penalties we have gotten (both warranted and unwarranted). Finally, the injury toll that we stayed away from the past two years is finally catching up with us.

There are a number of reasons we suck right now and hopefully the team can right the ship. But by trying to lay this current state of our team on Harbaugh and Roman's arrogance to not adjust their game plans is silly. The second drive in the IND game was great with them pounding the rock. Do you think maybe that their game plan was to have the running game open the passing game? Turns out, it just didn't work.
Originally posted by fastforward:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by 9erempire:
Something is definitely wrong with our coaching staff when they failed to land Peyton freaking Manning. Manning probably didn't like how stubborn our coaches are. He was probably going to be forced to run Harbaugh and Roman's offense.

Can you believe it? He chose John Fox over Harbs and company and at the time, Denver was a crappy team compared to our NFC championship team.

It has to make you wonder how these guys are in real life.

This is b******t........to be kind. There's no telling what happened with the Manning situation, all that we do know is that Denver rolled out the red carpets for him, offered him an insane amount of money and basically gave him veto power over the offense. Why would anyone turn that down? I don't believe that any other team could have competed with Denver on what they were offering, especially on the financial part. Also, Denver was a playoff team at the time, one with a loaded defense and good players on offense.

I was very sure that if the 49ers offered Manning $18 million/year, the Broncos could easily up the pay to $20 million. They had close to $30 million in cap room last season. The Broncos also had a huge advantage over the 49ers: Manning can be THE MAN. With SF, he'd have to contend with Jim Harbaugh.

Let's not forget that I am sure he did not want to compete with the defenses in our division. The AFC West is almost as much of a cake walk as the AFC East has been for the Patriots.