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The Solutions Thread

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Solutions,

Defense:
Aldon, out in rehab... Lemon-yay!
Willis, out with injury, sign Larry Grant.
Put 8 in the box against strong running teams
Give up less short passing, by dropping one safety shallower (corner had better start to cover we are trying to help/hide them with deep safety help)
Tackle, Tackle, Tackle!

Offense:
Davis out injured, have a big mac attack!
Gore between the tackles (Iso, counter, belly), and off tackle only, 15-20 carries (Power runs)
Hunter on the toss, and in the screen, lots of zone blocking
More bunch concept plays to helps beat the press coverage
Full backs and Tight ends, running more wheel and crossing routes, to give Kaep a safe check down
Simplify play calling, take less deep shots.
Sign Hawkins for kick returns
Patton on the slant, and comebacks, Williams...gone



Fans:
Relax
Understand just because you are the favorite to win the super bowl in the preseason, doesn't mean you will, a winning season is good, a play off appearance is great.
Relax
Understand there are growing pains, when replacing players, Goldie, Alex, Iceman, Franklin, and Walker were important pieces.
Relax
Support the team, cheer, have fun, but remember, it's a game.
Relax.

Really like your note to the Fans...Couldn't have said it better. It's a game, not life and death. Like life there are ups and downs. The key is to learn to be ok with both and even see the gift of the downs. This could help us develop new players, identify and strengthen our weakness and mature our coaching staff especially Harbaugh. He has always had easy success. I don't think that is going to be the case this year. He's going to have to learn to settle down, not over-react and coach like his brother.
Originally posted by NCommand:
You probably shouldn't use the Bears game as a reference as they were on record as saying they had NO IDEA how to defend CK b/c at the time, "Nobody knew what he could do...not even our own coaches."

I'm seeing lots of blame on the lack of separation by the WR's. On the flip side, do you think Manning had great WR's in Denver? Or Brady in New England (esp. now)? Of course not. But what they ARE doing is spending extra time coaching them up, ensuring thet know their routes, focusing on precision, practicing and working with their OC's to ensure proper game plans. They also, in game, are making the correct pre snap reads and are throwing accurate balls. Right now, CK is off...WAY OFF on much of this and IMHO, Roman is not helping anyone with his college offense and poor personnel choices; he is VERY predictable.

Problem: HaRoMan and perceived WR's lack of separation
Solution/Rationale: It's beyond time we move to a traditional WCO. This involves three layers of options for a QB on every single pass play. Typically the first look is the deeper routes, scan the field from side to side, then look to the intermediate routes where the TE's find the soft zones and then finally, look to your outlets in the flats (RB's and FB's). Simple. Timing and precision passing is the key. Pre snap reads aren't as critical as one of the three options should be open every play. My personnel would be Baldwin at the X > Patton at the Y > Boldin at the Z. I'd rotate between two backs in I formations and two TE sets. Extra work would be done ala Jerry Rice of creating separation immediately off the LOS by the WR's (explosion off the LOS, hand fighting, beating press, using your big bodied WR's better for sheilding off DB's, teaching both VD and McDonald how to drop in soft zones and create outlets for CK). The WCO is predicated on precision and timing through perpetual repetition. Practice the first 20 plays until perfection. The short passing game will open up the inside/outside running game esp. in the second half. TAKE some real shots deep if that read is there. Otherwise defenses will continue to stack 8-9 in the box and play down hill under the 15 yards making it much harder to get separation by all receivers.

This is the best solution to the offensive woes I have read. The traditional WCO has the kind of structure that a young QB like Kap needs and also the young WR. Kap needs to be absolutely disciplined to read the field progressively in layers from deep to intermediate to check down. He is obviously not doing that, and it's probably because he hasn't had the offensive structure to train and support him to do so. The read option is a whole different animal. I would drop it except on rare occasion and trust that Kap will get his runs when defenses go man and leave lanes open.
Solutions:
- Run Kaep 20+ times per game.
- fake FG and punts like the Browns did vs Vikings
- rotate Patton, Williams, Baldwin and Moore in the WR#2 spot only running straight flys. This will tire the other teams #2 CB out. Assuming we string together a 5-6 play drive (the CB will be tired), we then throw 3 bombs in a row to that side hoping for a catch or PI penalty.
- Sign Mike Rumph to play CB and pick up Kentwan Balmer from his job bagging groceries at the local grocery store. Plug him in on the D-line.

All problems solved, we will every game. Very simple!!
Originally posted by webslinger9er:
Saw this on twitter and thought it would fit nicely in this thread for those who have a sense of humor...



AHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!! Common guys....you have to admit, this is pretty funny.
Gore up the middle. Then.. Gore up the middle.... Then for a grand 1st down............GORE UP THE MIDDLE! woop woop!
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Very good analysis and solution. Am really concerned about the D-line though. What to do about that? Gotta hope Carradine and Dial come back.

Well, like I described throughout my Team Needs thread, "Scheme is the Theme in 2013." http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/171861-team-needs-updates/page33/

But so far, that hasn't happened. We've remained vanilla and predictable/stubborn and very weak in rotation (if any at all).

Defense: (22)
DE (3): Justin Smith, Ray McDonald and Demarcus Dobbs; Quinton Dial & Tank Carradine (NFI)
NT (2): Glenn Dorsey and Tony Jerod-Eddie; Ian Williams (I.R.)
OLB (3): Dan Skuta/Corey Lemonier and Ahmad Brooks; Aldon Smith (NFI)
ILB (5): NaVorro Bowman, Michael Wilhoite and Nathan Stupar; Patrick Willis (Injured) & Nick Moody (I.R. designated to return)
CB (5): Tarell Brown, Carlos Rogers, Perrish Cox and Tramaine Brock; Chris Culliver, Eric Wright & Nnamdi Asomugha (I.R., NFI & Injured)
S (5): Donte Whitner, Eric Reid, Craig Dahl, C.J. Spillman and Raymond Ventrone

Well crap, this is what I have to work from, eh? Scheme is my Theme in 2013 so....

We are going to a 4-3 for the immediate future.



Dorsey/Dobbs (LDE) - McDonald (LDT) - Smith (RDT) - Brooks (RDE)

Bowman (SAM) - Wilhoite (MIKE) - Skuta (WILL)

Cox (LCB) - Whitner (SS) - Reid (FS) - Rogers (NICKLE) - Brown (RCB)

Rationale: Dorsey/Dobbs are good run stuffers and are good at getting a push up field. Having them wider out left on a 4 man DL means they can push up the field a bit and seal the edge allowing Bowman to clean up everything else inside while also covering the TE's. Both McDonald and Smith can now disrupt the G's and C's together! Both will help to shut down the run and collapse the pocket (critical for us on both fronts!). And nobody is running off tackle on Brooks and he will get some sacks as well from this spot and from the blind side (expect fumbles). Wilhoite is best with two monsters in front of him and playing down hill. Skuta is an experienced veteran who can be used to clean up the edges and he can rush from both inside and outside Brooks when needed. Lemonier can also sub in for Dobbs or Brooks to spell the pass rush. Rogers is done. He has half-assed it since he got his contract and is always in trail-mode. My scheme now is pure press and Cox is much more physical than Rogers. Rogers will play the nickle until he proves he can't. Brown will also be asked to press much more and no longer will 10 yard cushions be allowed on 3rd and 5's. Whitner will play a more traditional SS role and roam around in the box and clean up tackles, jam TE's and crossing WR's, etc. Reid is the playmaker in the backfield with sideline-to-sideline range. He is the catalyst. He will also, on occasion, be brought up to the LOS and blitz. He is lightning quick/fast. When/if Nnamdi comes back, he takes over for Cox at LCB and Cox moves to the NICKLE and Rogers sits save for the 4+ WR sets. Willis, naturally, will take over for Wilhoite when/if fully healthy.
[ Edited by NCommand on Sep 24, 2013 at 9:01 AM ]
Great call. Get their asses down to the vault and let's play 49er football - WCO.


NCommandVeteranPosts: 10,482 You probably shouldn't use the Bears game as a reference as they were on record as saying they had NO IDEA how to defend CK b/c at the time, "Nobody knew what he could do...not even our own coaches." I'm seeing lots of blame on the lack of separation by the WR's. On the flip side, do you think Manning had great WR's in Denver? Or Brady in New England (esp. now)? Of course not. But what they ARE doing is spending extra time coaching them up, ensuring thet know their routes, focusing on precision, practicing and working with their OC's to ensure proper game plans. They also, in game, are making the correct pre snap reads and are throwing accurate balls. Right now, CK is off...WAY OFF on much of this and IMHO, Roman is not helping anyone with his college offense and poor personnel choices; he is VERY predictable. Problem: HaRoMan and perceived WR's lack of separation Solution/Rationale: It's beyond time we move to a traditional WCO. This involves three layers of options for a QB on every single pass play. Typically the first look is the deeper routes, scan the field from side to side, then look to the intermediate routes where the TE's find the soft zones and then finally, look to your outlets in the flats (RB's and FB's). Simple. Timing and precision passing is the key. Pre snap reads aren't as critical as one of the three options should be open every play. My personnel would be Baldwin at the X > Patton at the Y > Boldin at the Z. I'd rotate between two backs in I formations and two TE sets. Extra work would be done ala Jerry Rice of creating separation immediately off the LOS by the WR's (explosion off the LOS, hand fighting, beating press, using your big bodied WR's better for sheilding off DB's, teaching both VD and McDonald how to drop in soft zones and create outlets for CK). The WCO is predicated on precision and timing through perpetual repetition. Practice the first 20 plays until perfection. The short passing game will open up the inside/outside running game esp. in the second half. TAKE some real shots deep if that read is there. Otherwise defenses will continue to stack 8-9 in the box and play down hill under the 15 yards making it much harder to get separation by all receivers.
Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/174929-the-solutions-thread/page3/#2Y6acihURpyrThcz.99
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Great call. Get their asses down to the vault and let's play 49er football - WCO.


NCommandVeteranPosts: 10,482 You probably shouldn't use the Bears game as a reference as they were on record as saying they had NO IDEA how to defend CK b/c at the time, "Nobody knew what he could do...not even our own coaches." I'm seeing lots of blame on the lack of separation by the WR's. On the flip side, do you think Manning had great WR's in Denver? Or Brady in New England (esp. now)? Of course not. But what they ARE doing is spending extra time coaching them up, ensuring thet know their routes, focusing on precision, practicing and working with their OC's to ensure proper game plans. They also, in game, are making the correct pre snap reads and are throwing accurate balls. Right now, CK is off...WAY OFF on much of this and IMHO, Roman is not helping anyone with his college offense and poor personnel choices; he is VERY predictable. Problem: HaRoMan and perceived WR's lack of separation Solution/Rationale: It's beyond time we move to a traditional WCO. This involves three layers of options for a QB on every single pass play. Typically the first look is the deeper routes, scan the field from side to side, then look to the intermediate routes where the TE's find the soft zones and then finally, look to your outlets in the flats (RB's and FB's). Simple. Timing and precision passing is the key. Pre snap reads aren't as critical as one of the three options should be open every play. My personnel would be Baldwin at the X > Patton at the Y > Boldin at the Z. I'd rotate between two backs in I formations and two TE sets. Extra work would be done ala Jerry Rice of creating separation immediately off the LOS by the WR's (explosion off the LOS, hand fighting, beating press, using your big bodied WR's better for sheilding off DB's, teaching both VD and McDonald how to drop in soft zones and create outlets for CK). The WCO is predicated on precision and timing through perpetual repetition. Practice the first 20 plays until perfection. The short passing game will open up the inside/outside running game esp. in the second half. TAKE some real shots deep if that read is there. Otherwise defenses will continue to stack 8-9 in the box and play down hill under the 15 yards making it much harder to get separation by all receivers.
Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/174929-the-solutions-thread/page3/#2Y6acihURpyrThcz.99
our wr coach sucks tho. i dont know how this guy has a job in the nfl. the only good receiver hes "produced" was crabtree who was the consensus best receiver in the draft so he didnt have to do much. his own guy from usc that we drafted didnt even pan out and he had experience with him.
Originally posted by NCommand:
You probably shouldn't use the Bears game as a reference as they were on record as saying they had NO IDEA how to defend CK b/c at the time, "Nobody knew what he could do...not even our own coaches."

I'm seeing lots of blame on the lack of separation by the WR's. On the flip side, do you think Manning had great WR's in Denver? Or Brady in New England (esp. now)? Of course not. But what they ARE doing is spending extra time coaching them up, ensuring thet know their routes, focusing on precision, practicing and working with their OC's to ensure proper game plans. They also, in game, are making the correct pre snap reads and are throwing accurate balls. Right now, CK is off...WAY OFF on much of this and IMHO, Roman is not helping anyone with his college offense and poor personnel choices; he is VERY predictable.

Problem: HaRoMan and perceived WR's lack of separation
Solution/Rationale: It's beyond time we move to a traditional WCO. This involves three layers of options for a QB on every single pass play. Typically the first look is the deeper routes, scan the field from side to side, then look to the intermediate routes where the TE's find the soft zones and then finally, look to your outlets in the flats (RB's and FB's). Simple. Timing and precision passing is the key. Pre snap reads aren't as critical as one of the three options should be open every play. My personnel would be Baldwin at the X > Patton at the Y > Boldin at the Z. I'd rotate between two backs in I formations and two TE sets. Extra work would be done ala Jerry Rice of creating separation immediately off the LOS by the WR's (explosion off the LOS, hand fighting, beating press, using your big bodied WR's better for sheilding off DB's, teaching both VD and McDonald how to drop in soft zones and create outlets for CK). The WCO is predicated on precision and timing through perpetual repetition. Practice the first 20 plays until perfection. The short passing game will open up the inside/outside running game esp. in the second half. TAKE some real shots deep if that read is there. Otherwise defenses will continue to stack 8-9 in the box and play down hill under the 15 yards making it much harder to get separation by all receivers.

I totally agree with you the precision and excution of the route running is severally lack right now. In regards to the lack of seperation, I would like to see two things. First I want to see even more bunch forms. Bunch forms give at least two WR free releases and due to the nature of the formation picks and rubs are numerous. Besides bodin has made his living in the bunch thru out his career. The bunch was used early and often vs GB but for some reason has taken a back seat the last two games. The second thing I would want to see more is WR motion like the old school flanker drive plays we use to run. Again this style of motion give the WR some momentum to gain seperation. Hell the niners use to run this play 8-10 times a game from several formations.

As for the offense as a whole, I would love to see the second drive of the colts game be the template until the WR gets heathy. The read option has really become a non play, and move back to our 2011 offense would again take advantage of our OL and get back to taking control of the game tempo and giving our defense a break.
Originally posted by Niners816:
I totally agree with you the precision and excution of the route running is severally lack right now. In regards to the lack of seperation, I would like to see two things. First I want to see even more bunch forms. Bunch forms give at least two WR free releases and due to the nature of the formation picks and rubs are numerous. Besides bodin has made his living in the bunch thru out his career. The bunch was used early and often vs GB but for some reason has taken a back seat the last two games. The second thing I would want to see more is WR motion like the old school flanker drive plays we use to run. Again this style of motion give the WR some momentum to gain seperation. Hell the niners use to run this play 8-10 times a game from several formations.

As for the offense as a whole, I would love to see the second drive of the colts game be the template until the WR gets heathy. The read option has really become a non play, and move back to our 2011 offense would again take advantage of our OL and get back to taking control of the game tempo and giving our defense a break.

Agreed, use "scheme" to help get these guys open. Roman has been running one or two WR's out in straight-line routes and simple curl routes making it incredibly easy for defenders to defend esp. when there is ZERO threat of one single deep ball (unless we are way behind). I wish people would go back to the first Rams game last year to see how Fischer used Danny Amendola (with one collar bone at the time). He was, basically, their ONLY weapon and we could not stop him. He moved him around all day long to create mismatches immediately off the LOS. The Vikings used to employ a similar set with Harvin, even lining him up in the backfield. Hey, even in our own history, we did similar things to get Rice the ball early and often. I challenge each and very fan in here to go to whomeam's video page and just watch the types of routes we run and ask yourself if these guys even have a chance to get open: http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/174093-seattle-game-uploaded/

Then come back here with your own solutions!
2014 Alex > 2014 Kap
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Niners816:
I totally agree with you the precision and excution of the route running is severally lack right now. In regards to the lack of seperation, I would like to see two things. First I want to see even more bunch forms. Bunch forms give at least two WR free releases and due to the nature of the formation picks and rubs are numerous. Besides bodin has made his living in the bunch thru out his career. The bunch was used early and often vs GB but for some reason has taken a back seat the last two games. The second thing I would want to see more is WR motion like the old school flanker drive plays we use to run. Again this style of motion give the WR some momentum to gain seperation. Hell the niners use to run this play 8-10 times a game from several formations.

As for the offense as a whole, I would love to see the second drive of the colts game be the template until the WR gets heathy. The read option has really become a non play, and move back to our 2011 offense would again take advantage of our OL and get back to taking control of the game tempo and giving our defense a break.

Agreed, use "scheme" to help get these guys open. Roman has been running one or two WR's out in straight-line routes and simple curl routes making it incredibly easy for defenders to defend esp. when there is ZERO threat of one single deep ball (unless we are way behind). I wish people would go back to the first Rams game last year to see how Fischer used Danny Amendola (with one collar bone at the time). He was, basically, their ONLY weapon and we could not stop him. He moved him around all day long to create mismatches immediately off the LOS. The Vikings used to employ a similar set with Harvin, even lining him up in the backfield. Hey, even in our own history, we did similar things to get Rice the ball early and often. I challenge each and very fan in here to go to whomeam's video page and just watch the types of routes we run and ask yourself if these guys even have a chance to get open: http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/174093-seattle-game-uploaded/

Then come back here with your own solutions!

You can only scheme plays so far. At some point, the WR's will be required to make a football play, get open and present themselves as a target. Remember Colin is not like Alex in waiting for WR's to be wide open, he likes to sling the football. I noticed Patton hasn't been getting a hole lot of snaps, so I'm wondering when they move him up and either Williams or Moore down. What those two are doing isn't working.
Originally posted by bzborow1:
You can only scheme plays so far. At some point, the WR's will be required to make a football play, get open and present themselves as a target.

Agreed. It's not like we don't know we play teams like Seattle x2 a year who excel in press coverage. So this leads me to ask, what the hell have they been doing all off season to combat it? Those are individual battles the WR have an advantage on b/c they know the play call, the route, timing, etc. So how are they still not winning those battles at the LOS and getting to their spots? To me this screams of poor coaching, technique, scheme, individual skill sets, etc. Even a raw WR should be winning SOME of these battles, even with limited coaching.
[ Edited by NCommand on Sep 24, 2013 at 10:21 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by bzborow1:
You can only scheme plays so far. At some point, the WR's will be required to make a football play, get open and present themselves as a target.

Agreed. It's not like we don't know we play teams like Seattle x2 a year who excel in press coverage. So this leads me to ask, what the hell have they been doing all off season to combat it? Those are individual battles the WR have an advantage on b/c they know the play call, the route, timing, etc. So how are they still not winning those battles at the LOS and getting to their spots? To me this screams of poor coaching, technique, scheme, individual skill sets, etc. Even a raw WR should be winning SOME of these battles, even with limited coaching.

I think they are just not good enough. No fault against them as individuals, but they are paid professionals whose job it is to get open and catch passes and they are not achieving that. In Boldin's case he's being double teamed, but all the others have been blanketed by single coverage.
[ Edited by bzborow1 on Sep 24, 2013 at 10:25 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed, use "scheme" to help get these guys open. Roman has been running one or two WR's out in straight-line routes and simple curl routes making it incredibly easy for defenders to defend esp. when there is ZERO threat of one single deep ball (unless we are way behind). I wish people would go back to the first Rams game last year to see how Fischer used Danny Amendola (with one collar bone at the time). He was, basically, their ONLY weapon and we could not stop him. He moved him around all day long to create mismatches immediately off the LOS. The Vikings used to employ a similar set with Harvin, even lining him up in the backfield. Hey, even in our own history, we did similar things to get Rice the ball early and often. I challenge each and very fan in here to go to whomeam's video page and just watch the types of routes we run and ask yourself if these guys even have a chance to get open: http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/174093-seattle-game-uploaded/

Then come back here with your own solutions!

I really think there are some old school WCO concepts that would be perfect for
This years team. They are Z-in, Texas and Q sprint option.

Z-in was a bill walsh staple play. Basically against Zone the flanker would run a hook, the TE would settle about 5 yards over center and the back would run to the flat. Against man the flankers hook became a deep in, TE route became a whip route and the back still occupied the flat. Basically this play encapsulated the Walsh offense settle into the zone and run away from man.

Texas concept is a cover 2 beater that sends the TE on a seam route and the back on the strong side runs an angle route. Lb takes seam away hit the back on the angle, conversely the lb takes the back the. Stick that seam route(kinda think kaep would excel at this throw given his arm strength). This concepts could also help against the qb spy's that kaep has gotten so far this year. Basically if the spy is too worried about kaep that should leave a shot to both the seam or angle route.

Finally q sprint option is probably the most iconic niner play of all time. "The catch " was its result but the beauty of it is that it gives the qb three options. U have a slot guy going to the flat off of a pick, the outside WR first tries to rub the defender so he slot is wide open, he then becomes the second target down the field. Finally the qb has the option to run. If run correctly it's almost impossible to stop. I would be willing to bet rice caught about 40 of these a year.

All these concepts could be packaged in current formation both under center and gun. However I would love to see these ran in traditionL forms (split, far ,near) just to give defenses something they haven't seen in 15 or so years. The great thing about these old concepts are the provide multiple options and in the case of Z-in they provide both a vertical and horizontal stretch that when ran correctly give great pass lanes.
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