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We need a true nose tackle

Bryant Young is available
Originally posted by JerryRice1848:
Bryant Young is available

Not a true two-gap NT but he would be "the man" again next to Justin Smith in a 4-man DL formation! Even today. LOL
Had the Packers taken Crabtree instead we would have Raji
Originally posted by stefano89:
u are the only one who thinks this. what do u think dorsey an williams are. have you seen them?

You'll see when we sign an actual A gap NT and we start getting off the field on 3rd down. No credibility in your post--Williams is a NT who's unknown for the most part, but got pushed atound a but in preseason and could be Harbaughs dlineman version of Marlon Moore. Ugh.

And Dorsey is a stout 4/3 interior lineman. Hes not going to take on more than one OT in the game and be able to handle it.

***Moving on and waiting for the front office to get the right guy to help our chances
Matt Barrows (@MattBarrows) of the Sac Bee had it right on KNBR Monday, when he said the defense plays well but then finally collapses in the fourth quarter because they have been on the field too long. That's exactly what happened in the last two games.

This should be obvious, but apparently it's not. A few more numbers to chew on:

3rd down percentage is not the problem. For the year --- 14 / 38 = 36.8%. That's a very good defensive 3rd down %.

How the defense did on 3rd down last 2 games:

Seattle was 5 / 16 = 31.3% against us, 22% in the 1st half ...............In their other games they converted 43.5 %
Indy was 5 / 12 = 41.7% against us, 17% in the 1st half...................In their other games they converted 52.0 %

Those are good percentages, but in each game they started to convert more in the 2nd half. Why? Defense tired out. It's clear as day the defensive struggles have been a by-product of the offense not sustaining any drives. You cannot honestly watch these games and tell me the offense is not largely responsible.

The 49ers offense has ran 184 plays in 3 games (29th in NFL). It's not like we're moving ball but running out of time because the defense is not getting off the field. It's the opposite. The 49ers are not moving the ball AT ALL. The defense is getting off the field, but with decreasing frequency as the game progresses. Not surprising when they're on the field all game long.

If you think the "right" NT is going to fix this problem you're dreaming. This is a massive team failure and no one player is the problem or the solution. It's not just Dorsey tiring out late in games, it's the entire defense. Smith, McDonald, Brooks, Bowman....they were all getting washed out in the 4th. Every defense, no matter how talented, needs rest. People expect this defense to play 2/3 of the game and be stout against the run at all times. That's ridiculous and it's not how football works.
[ Edited by SofaKing on Sep 24, 2013 at 2:32 PM ]
  • xcfan
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we lost a good one in ian williams. good feet; good lateral movement. he could be stout and active. it's a big loss, that takes our defense down a peg.
  • xcfan
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,718
michael carter's daughter is available. she's built just like him.

I think the benefits of having a NT in the game are obvious to our coaching staff. However, they obviously feel that we have so many great players in that front 7, that they prefer to give the extra man to the backfield, where we are weaker.

In general, our defense is playing very well. They do have a hard time getting off the field sometimes, but they don't give up a lot of points.... at least not when the game is still in hand.

Personally, I'd like to see us find a shut-down corner in the draft next year. Then we can afford to keep an extra DL in the game more. For now though, our approach will be fine.... as long as the offense picks it up!
Originally posted by xcfan:
michael carter's daughter is available. she's built just like him.


Do it, Balke.
we're eventually gonna be a 4-3 team IMO
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Matt Barrows (@MattBarrows) of the Sac Bee had it right on KNBR Monday, when he said the defense plays well but then finally collapses in the fourth quarter because they have been on the field too long. That's exactly what happened in the last two games.

This should be obvious, but apparently it's not. A few more numbers to chew on:

3rd down percentage is not the problem. For the year --- 14 / 38 = 36.8%. That's a very good defensive 3rd down %.

How the defense did on 3rd down last 2 games:

Seattle was 5 / 16 = 31.3% against us, 22% in the 1st half ...............In their other games they converted 43.5 %
Indy was 5 / 12 = 41.7% against us, 17% in the 1st half...................In their other games they converted 52.0 %

Those are good percentages, but in each game they started to convert more in the 2nd half. Why? Defense tired out. It's clear as day the defensive struggles have been a by-product of the offense not sustaining any drives. You cannot honestly watch these games and tell me the offense is not largely responsible.

The 49ers offense has ran 184 plays in 3 games (29th in NFL). It's not like we're moving ball but running out of time because the defense is not getting off the field. It's the opposite. The 49ers are not moving the ball AT ALL. The defense is getting off the field, but with decreasing frequency as the game progresses. Not surprising when they're on the field all game long.

If you think the "right" NT is going to fix this problem you're dreaming. This is a massive team failure and no one player is the problem or the solution. It's not just Dorsey tiring out late in games, it's the entire defense. Smith, McDonald, Brooks, Bowman....they were all getting washed out in the 4th. Every defense, no matter how talented, needs rest. People expect this defense to play 2/3 of the game and be stout against the run at all times. That's ridiculous and it's not how football works.

Truth be told, NT is a need for this team. It's just not the biggest problem nor the one I am most concerned about at the moment. I agree with you that if the offense could do a halfway decent job, this conversation about the nose tackle wouldn't even be taking place. We have what we've always had, a serviceable player in the middle, which was good enough for us to be a top 5 defense last year. The only difference is we have an offense that can't even get us 17 to 20 points a game which is good enough for a win with a defense as good as ours has been the last 2 seasons.
Surprised nobody has brought this thread up again since Dorsey tweaked his hammy.

I find no shortage of irony in the fact that this year was supposed to feature a heavy rotation of D-lineman to keep McDonald and Cowboy fresh aaaaaand the team is forced to bring a guy up from the p-squad to potentially play against the Titans. Make no bones about it, this is a tough situation.

Fortunately, I'm not terribly afraid of Tennessee's ability to run up the middle nor am I too threatened by Ryan Fitzpatrick taking over and winning it on his own. Furthermore, there's really only the Seahawks and the Saints left on the schedule for this season as teams that I think can really threaten the Niners with their running game.

Truly, I think the team can get by with playing with what they have and hopefully get some guys healthier as the season goes forward. One of the rookies will need to contribute significantly, my hope is Dial becomes a stuffer in the middle. I hear he's huge.
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Truth be told, NT is a need for this team. It's just not the biggest problem nor the one I am most concerned about at the moment. I agree with you that if the offense could do a halfway decent job, this conversation about the nose tackle wouldn't even be taking place. We have what we've always had, a serviceable player in the middle, which was good enough for us to be a top 5 defense last year. The only difference is we have an offense that can't even get us 17 to 20 points a game which is good enough for a win with a defense as good as ours has been the last 2 seasons.

I agree, it's not the biggest need, although that comes down to semantics and personal preference. That said, we had good offensive production against the Cards and with TJE in at NT (laughable), we were run on for 109 yards (5.2 a carry). So yes, we DO need help at the NT position. The Cards had what, 16 total yards rushing against the Hawks? While we can get by using a bunch of DE's in the NT role, when we do play a power running team or a team centered on running, we could see some more collapses in the 4Q. More importantly, right now, Smith is hurt (shoulder), Dorsey (don't exoect him back for weeks - hamstrings are tricky), Williams (lost for the season) and McDonald (torn tricept) is also hurt. Nobody here wants to see TJE starting at NT or even PS player Purcell. I'd take a non-conditioned Dial over either (somewat kidding). If I'm the Titans, I play down hill all game long with a running-back-committee. Let's pray Dial and Carradine can somehow, someway, get up to speed VERY quickly!
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 18, 2013 at 10:34 AM ]
You guys who think we're ok with where we are on the dline with the players we have (including EVEN I.Williams, Dorsey, TJE, Dobbs AND Dial) need to realize by week 15, J. SMITH AND McDonald are going to be ran into the f**king ground
If we are going to acquire a true NT...it would have to be through a trade IMO , there are no serviceable NT's on the street,