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Baalke: pay Crabtree whatever he wants

  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 24,057
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Yes..I think what we are seeing is the need for so much diversity in scheme that we are limited to power running as our mainstay. The more multi-dimensional an O can be the harder it is to stop. This is what Bill Walsh did. His offenses could do it all. The D couldn't settle into a focus on stopping one thing and beat us. If they focused on stopping the run they'd beat them with the pass. If they tried to shut down the passing game they would run them off the field.

Frank doesn't seem to like running out of spread formations. Looking back to week 1, we used an O that blew the Pack away on the pass. The run wasn't working at all in the game so Kap through for 400+. The next two weeks we tanked trying to pass so we defaulted to the power running game with Frank the Tank. It was sort of like a pendulum swing that we're now just trying to work ourselves out of not that Crabs is back.

Frank is coming to the end, and lately we are seeing that he can't be the ongoing focus of the O. It will have to change, but it will take the offseason to make this shift. We'll see it all unfold in free agency and the draft. This is where they show their hand. If they extend Crabs and not iupati that is a sign.
i think you underestimate gore. the word defaulted makes it seem like its tragic we have to do that . in case you did not know after a 1-2 start that is exactly how we got back on track. and if roman had chosen to stay with the "defaulted" power run game vs the colts we would have won that game. we are not a pass first team, never have been and under JH never will be. sorry but you are incorrect in your analysis about the state of our team in my opinion
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Yes..I think what we are seeing is the need for so much diversity in scheme that we are limited to power running as our mainstay. The more multi-dimensional an O can be the harder it is to stop. This is what Bill Walsh did. His offenses could do it all. The D couldn't settle into a focus on stopping one thing and beat us. If they focused on stopping the run they'd beat them with the pass. If they tried to shut down the passing game they would run them off the field.

Frank doesn't seem to like running out of spread formations. Looking back to week 1, we used an O that blew the Pack away on the pass. The run wasn't working at all in the game so Kap through for 400+. The next two weeks we tanked trying to pass so we defaulted to the power running game with Frank the Tank. It was sort of like a pendulum swing that we're now just trying to work ourselves out of not that Crabs is back.

Frank is coming to the end, and lately we are seeing that he can't be the ongoing focus of the O. It will have to change, but it will take the offseason to make this shift. We'll see it all unfold in free agency and the draft. This is where they show their hand. If they extend Crabs and not iupati that is a sign.
i think you underestimate gore. the word defaulted makes it seem like its tragic we have to do that . in case you did not know after a 1-2 start that is exactly how we got back on track. and if roman had chosen to stay with the "defaulted" power run game vs the colts we would have won that game. we are not a pass first team, never have been and under JH never will be. sorry but you are incorrect in your analysis about the state of our team in my opinion

I think the poster is trying to say we could stand the use a little balance. Much like how the Detroit Lions could've used a little balance in previous years. We do have the players to have a nice passing game. We are capable of having more of a 50-50 balance. We can lean more on one aspect of the offense or the other depending on the type of defense we are playing and the strength/weakness of that defense. I don't want us to be a pass first team. I want us to pass more WITHOUT abandoning the run. I want to see more balance. And it would be great if we used the skill position players that were active on offense. Instead of simply trying to keep defenses on their heels with how we line up, we can also do the same with our personnel.
I don't know about you, but I see lots of yards left on the field in each game (mostly the short to intermediate, keep the chains moving type of passes). Defenses should be fearful of going 8 in the box against us and right now, they are not.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Yes..I think what we are seeing is the need for so much diversity in scheme that we are limited to power running as our mainstay. The more multi-dimensional an O can be the harder it is to stop. This is what Bill Walsh did. His offenses could do it all. The D couldn't settle into a focus on stopping one thing and beat us. If they focused on stopping the run they'd beat them with the pass. If they tried to shut down the passing game they would run them off the field.

Frank doesn't seem to like running out of spread formations. Looking back to week 1, we used an O that blew the Pack away on the pass. The run wasn't working at all in the game so Kap through for 400+. The next two weeks we tanked trying to pass so we defaulted to the power running game with Frank the Tank. It was sort of like a pendulum swing that we're now just trying to work ourselves out of not that Crabs is back.

Frank is coming to the end, and lately we are seeing that he can't be the ongoing focus of the O. It will have to change, but it will take the offseason to make this shift. We'll see it all unfold in free agency and the draft. This is where they show their hand. If they extend Crabs and not iupati that is a sign.
i think you underestimate gore. the word defaulted makes it seem like its tragic we have to do that . in case you did not know after a 1-2 start that is exactly how we got back on track. and if roman had chosen to stay with the "defaulted" power run game vs the colts we would have won that game. we are not a pass first team, never have been and under JH never will be. sorry but you are incorrect in your analysis about the state of our team in my opinion

Gore and the power running scheme have become less effective. His yards per carry keep dropping. He is coming to the end of his career. Age wins and he's at the place where it all falls off a cliff quickly. Hard to deny this. Another year, maybe....

Yes, we "defaulted", because we felt we had no choice. Week one was a clear indicator of their desire to have the capacity to win through the air and let Kap carry the offense. They next two weeks we came out trying to wing it and it didn't work. Kap wasn't ready the WR talent wasn't either.

Doesn't mean we don't want to have a power running game, but not to "have" to have it to win against playoff quality competition. Look at the perennial playoff teams. They all have a QB that can carry the team and they can beat you either way. This is where I believe Harbaugh knows he has to go.

I think we've built up a "meme" here on the Zone with Harbaugh as a ground and pound first, Bo Schembechler idol. I don't think we give him enough credit. He will do whatever it takes to win and he and Baalke are plenty intelligent. They see as most of us do that Kap will be the center in the future and needs to be for this team to have a chance at the ring every year.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Yes..I think what we are seeing is the need for so much diversity in scheme that we are limited to power running as our mainstay. The more multi-dimensional an O can be the harder it is to stop. This is what Bill Walsh did. His offenses could do it all. The D couldn't settle into a focus on stopping one thing and beat us. If they focused on stopping the run they'd beat them with the pass. If they tried to shut down the passing game they would run them off the field.

Frank doesn't seem to like running out of spread formations. Looking back to week 1, we used an O that blew the Pack away on the pass. The run wasn't working at all in the game so Kap through for 400+. The next two weeks we tanked trying to pass so we defaulted to the power running game with Frank the Tank. It was sort of like a pendulum swing that we're now just trying to work ourselves out of not that Crabs is back.

Frank is coming to the end, and lately we are seeing that he can't be the ongoing focus of the O. It will have to change, but it will take the offseason to make this shift. We'll see it all unfold in free agency and the draft. This is where they show their hand. If they extend Crabs and not iupati that is a sign.
i think you underestimate gore. the word defaulted makes it seem like its tragic we have to do that . in case you did not know after a 1-2 start that is exactly how we got back on track. and if roman had chosen to stay with the "defaulted" power run game vs the colts we would have won that game. we are not a pass first team, never have been and under JH never will be. sorry but you are incorrect in your analysis about the state of our team in my opinion

Barry never said we'd become a pass first team, he said that we could become more balanced offensively, 50/50 pass/run.

I also disagree with the notion that we'll never become anything more than just a one dimensional power running team when the Harbaugh and the coaches themselves showed willingness to pass the ball, abandon the run, and run the offense through Kap because they thought he was ready to take on that responsibility. As we know now, he's not there yet, our receiving core was anemic at the time, and pass blocking isn't the oline's thing.

Will we become the Patriots? Probably not. Power running will still likely be a staple for this team but it doesn't have to be just who we are. You don't think when Kap gains more experience and he has more quality receiving options that we won't become more balanced on offense? I think it's inevitable.
Contract Forecast: Michael Crabtree--
5 years 46,408,739 total 9,281,748 avg/year
http://www.spotrac.com/premium/research/nfl/contract-forecast-michael-crabtree-410/
[ Edited by Ronnie49Lott on Jan 28, 2014 at 10:43 PM ]
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Contract Forecast: Michael Crabtree--
5 years 46,408,739 total 9,281,748 avg/year
http://www.spotrac.com/premium/research/nfl/contract-forecast-michael-crabtree-410/

If we got Crabtree signed for that amount, we probably can keep everyone. That old Beach Boys song is in my head now, Wouldn't It Be Nice.
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Contract Forecast: Michael Crabtree--
5 years 46,408,739 total 9,281,748 avg/year
http://www.spotrac.com/premium/research/nfl/contract-forecast-michael-crabtree-410/

If we got Crabtree signed for that amount, we probably can keep everyone. That old Beach Boys song is in my head now, Wouldn't It Be Nice.
My mistake it's actually a couple of million lower at 44,812,278. Average Annual Salary: $8,962,456. Guaranteed Money: $13,600,000.

Great read on Crabtree's production and value thus far in light of the upcoming contract situation:

http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/1/29/5355554/49ers-michael-crabtree-contract-49ers-free-agents-2015
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Contract Forecast: Michael Crabtree--
5 years 46,408,739 total 9,281,748 avg/year
http://www.spotrac.com/premium/research/nfl/contract-forecast-michael-crabtree-410/

If we got Crabtree signed for that amount, we probably can keep everyone. That old Beach Boys song is in my head now, Wouldn't It Be Nice.
My mistake it's actually a couple of million lower at 44,812,278. Average Annual Salary: $8,962,456. Guaranteed Money: $13,600,000.

that seems pretty fair. cruz got 6 yrs 46 million last season. i got no clue what seattle was thinking giving harvin 6 yrs 67 million.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 24,057
going back a million pages to the original topic,,, the niners never over pay for anyone. never, they set a price and that is the way it is. that formula has gotten us to three nfc title games, over paying someone will not get us over the hump and winning a super bowl in my opinion and it may set you back in your goals.
Originally posted by cciowa:
going back a million pages to the original topic,,, the niners never over pay for anyone. never, they set a price and that is the way it is. that formula has gotten us to three nfc title games, over paying someone will not get us over the hump and winning a super bowl in my opinion and it may set you back in your goals.

if you're a niner draft pick who gets to the final year of your contract and dont have it extended by seasons end, dont expect to be back.
Originally posted by crabman82:
if you're a niner draft pick who gets to the final year of your contract and dont have it extended by seasons end, dont expect to be back.

This. With that being said I really hope we resign this guy
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Originally posted by crabman82:
if you're a niner draft pick who gets to the final year of your contract and dont have it extended by seasons end, dont expect to be back.

This. With that being said I really hope we resign this guy

yeah i hope out of aldon, kaep and crab we can get 2 of those done in the offseason.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 24,057
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Originally posted by crabman82:
if you're a niner draft pick who gets to the final year of your contract and dont have it extended by seasons end, dont expect to be back.

This. With that being said I really hope we resign this guy
oh i agree, however if crabtree demands a obscene amount of money then you let him walk. people screamed when goldson took a hike and we ended up ok. sure i have some issues with roman and the niners at times but I am 100 per cent sold on how they run this team, how they set a price for a player, never overpay, for all the times i can get nuts,, I NEVER get crazy if the niners are not active on day one or two of free agency. they wait in the weeds, let the insanity die down, let the price come down, look for the "right" player, not over pay and get their man. that is the only way to operate in this nfl world in my opinion
  • cciowa
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  • Posts: 24,057
Originally posted by crabman82:
yeah i hope out of aldon, kaep and crab we can get 2 of those done in the offseason.

that would be huge. most think and rightfully so that aldon and ck should be given top priority. you always take care of your cornerstones on both sides of the ball in my opinion