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2013 - Week 2: Thoughts after watching the game...

Originally posted by xcfan:
anyone know what anthony davis is weighing these days? he looked like melissa mccarthy trying to kick slide.

He just signed a fat contract and had a chill offseason. He'll have to play his way into shape, hopefully by mid season. He sure looked slow last night.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
My thoughts from another thread.



I have to say I'm INCREDIBLY disappointed at the lack of preparedness on the part of the coaching and offensive gameplan. The defense looked great, lost in the shuffle is the fact that the 49ers defense made Russell Wilson look like a 3rd round rookie starting his first NFL game for the vast majority of the game. Having a healthy Aldon and Justin certainly helped but the gameplan was to keep Wilson contained and keep him in the pocket as much as possible and it worked, damn well, like a blueprint for the rest of the NFL in shutting that offense down. However, a defense can only do so much when they keep being put in bad positions because of offensive turnovers and bonehead penalties.


Looking at the turnover situation, this defense played REMARKABLY well last night, a hell of a game overall. But the offense, that was an embarrassment. Roman looked like he was simply winging it, no innovation, no creativity, absolutely nothing to challenge the defense or to get Seattle out of their comfort zone. Seattle imposed their will on this offense and they looked utterly pathetic, like they were happy to rest on their laurels after the Green Bay game. Roman seemed like he had bought into the hype and seemed to be trying to replicate the gameplan against Green Bay....against a FAR better secondary. It was an absolute joke, this was a team that had curb-stomped the 49ers the last time they played and the offensive gameplanning was essentially mailed in.


It's results like last night's why I think Roman is incredibly overrated. He'll put together some tremendous gameplans against flawed defenses such as Buffalo last year, as well as Chicago, who in spite of their success and racking up turnovers early on, were highly overrated defensively. Green Bay this year, I'm sure he'll put together a brilliant gameplan to light up a spotty Colts defense this weekend, but when this guy gets put on the spot, when he truly has to gameplan against a high quality defense, he routinely craps his pants and puts together a mediocre gameplan. You can't say that isn't true either, this team simply goes into the fetal position against top-tier defenses, doesn't even look like the same team out there, just highly predictable playcalls that good defenses eat up.


You can only get away with that so much. What they've been doing against Seattle the last two times, flat out has not worked. I'm hoping, that they don't plan on hitting their heads against a wall the third time and expecting that the possible return of Manningham and Crabtree will all of a sudden make everything alright. They need to attack Seattle in a vastly different fashion than they do against a majority of teams. Seattle's defense is ideally setup to shutdown this team's normal offensive playcalling and that defense gets up for games against the 49ers like crazy.


I just watched the game again and have to disagree. Our scheme wasn't great but without Seattle's crowd noise/snap anticipation advantage and all the personal fouls that game would have been winnable.

Roman figured out that Seattle wasn't covering our running backs so Bruce Miller was open on numerous occasions (that's why he saw so many targets). If we swap Miller out for McDonald (a bigger, faster, and better receiver) and connect on a few more of those touch passes that were wide open then we would have been just fine.

Secondly, Roman figured out that the Seattle D-Line was just charging into the backfield with no regard for any possible screen passes. Patton caught a screen pass that was wiped out by penalty, Williams caught a screen with 3 blockers ahead of him but somehow they ran right by Sherman and we only got 9 yards out of it, and we threw another screen pass to Boldin that got tipped because both DE's got amazing jumps on the ball.

Seattle was stacking the box with 8-9 defenders and their slot corners were playing way inside so the run game simply wasn't going to happen. They loaded up against the inside run knowing we don't have any fast outside guys or space players.

Honestly, we need to steal a couple plays from Chip Kelly's playbook. Bunch up the receivers and tight ends on the far outside then throw screens when Seattle cheats inside.

Specifically look at the plays against from Oregon vs USC:
http://fishduck.com/2013/06/take-and-give-oregons-bubble-zone-read-philosophy/
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by OregonNiner87:
Has Greg Roman & Co.'s bag of tricks been emptied? It seems like when they returned to the NFL from the college ranks they brought some unfamiliarity, whether it was college concepts or rehashed relics from decades ago. I remember Sunday night broadcasts when Gruden would break down a long list of such plays, and then remark about how different they were.

And then we went to the Super Bowl, went three straight pass plays in the endzone to lose, and the league has had a target on our back's for two offseasons now.

It doesn't really matter if they're out of tricks. Tricks never last long. In order to have sustained success you must play to your strengths, and know how to manipulate the defense into creating favorable matchups. I think our coaches can do that at a high level.

I think we tried to play to our strengths against Seattle, but we had trouble creating favorable matchups partly because of the crowd noise effecting communication, as well as a talented D that won their one-on-one matchups.

We definitely missed Crabtree, Manningham, LMJ, and Delanie.
First time poster here but I grew up watching the Niners during the late 80s. Aside from the days of Erickson-Nolan-Singletary, this is the worst beat down I remember from a 49er team expected to go places.

I thought Seattle outplayed us all practically all facets of the game. If you were able to take that bad taste out of your mouth, admittedly the defense played pretty well given the circumstances. But even then, the defense was nothing compared to Seattle. Seattle was swarming all over the place. Seattle's extra giddy-up is probably not attributed to superior defensive talent but more so playing on their own home turf and motivation to prove a point on national TV.

My biggest disappointment, however, is with Jim Harbaugh. Don't get me wrong. I do remember the dark ages and love Harbaugh. He's made the team relevant. My only wish with Harbaugh is that he would take a page (or rather a book) from a coach that he has been compared to - Bill Walsh.

I think Harbaugh's arrogance can get the best of him sometimes. Yes, we are the 49ers and we can do whatever we want... well except, when we are in Seattle. Walsh had some arrogance to himself. The great ones usually do. But what I loved about Walsh he didn't let his arrogance get in the way of his success. Walsh always found ways to motivate the team and put a chip on their shoulder.

As some have cited, Harbaugh is being too cute with the formations, shifting and motioning. I am not even sure why he is doing it. Is it to confuse the defense? Or is it to show the NFL how much of a genius he is? Walsh did things a certain way because there was a specific reason and most of all... because it was efficient. It wasn't because it was innovative. It was efficient.

I wish we would get back to the trap blocks, counter runs, and wham blocks. Give me some of that good ol' Detroit Lion wham blocking.

I just hope this arrogance does not trickle down to the players. Like I heard on the radio today, Seattle's gameplan this week was not about intimidation but Kap sure looked intimidated out there.

Overall, I am not too worried. It is still week 2. This team is still relatively young. Their leader hasn't even started a full 16 games yet. This team will go as far as Kap takes them - not because he has the talent to do so but because he is their leader. There will be situations where the 49ers will enter hostile environments and have their backs against the wall. Players will look to Kap and play up to his level. If he is rattled, the team will be rattled. Just like a pitcher, Kap will need to learn how to grind and play without his best stuff on occasion. Though admittedly, I am not sure what else Kap could have done this week when all the receivers were blanketed and the O-line leaving no holes for the running game. Even in dire situations like this, Kap will still need to make the right decisions or else the rest of the team will play like him as well.

Lastly, I think we will be in good hands as long as Balke is at the helm. He is probably the most critical piece to this franchise for the upcoming years.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Big_Daddy:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
"The problem wasn't the plan...it was the execution. Seattle was GLUED to receivers all night and the O-Line just couldn't get a push."

Marvin, its easy to glue our receivers when the personnel we have there is a full back as one of our receivers... running routes..getting the ball thrown to him, with of course him dropping it.

it might not have been the "plan", but it was the "personnel" the coaches choose to use. I mean they also had Osgood out there running routes, what threat does he pose?

we continue to run Gore out of the pistol formation...again personnel we use. I've said it before, but we should always have Hunter or James back there for the pistol. Hunter can pass block for alittle guy. And we need to run regular WCO formations for Gore.

its the coaches man....Seattle has adjusted to us, where as we still seem stubborn to make adjustments.


Thank you!!!!!! Everyone is good in the nfl. It's about adjustments. Our use of personnel and scheme just scream of arrogance. Our scheme obviously wasn't working and there was no plan to do anything different


I call BS on that one.

First series of the game and they came out in no huddle. That is a radical shift from anythig they've done before. The plan was to wear the defense down and slince the crowd. If they'd been able to convert a few first downs, it may have worked.

The problem was in EXECUTION.

Hell, if Miller can catch the ball the Niners might have been up 7-0. Instead there's a pick and the Niners never get in the endzone.

The score really doesn't matter because it was a CLOSE game before the 49ers started handing out 1st downs in the redzone on Personal Fouls. The score got nuts when they went down by more than 2 scores and THEN went outside their regular offense. What happened then?

Turnover city. Thats how the score got out of hand.

The score got really lopside and could have been worse had Seattle tried to score at the end, but it was a close game most of the way through before some mistakes blew it open. Credit goes to Seattle for taking advantage and just keeping at it when things weren't going well early.

I agree with Afrikan it was the game plan. You have to have a game plan that the players can execute, you can't try to implement something that calls for your team to play in a fashion they are not equipped to.

That's my issue, we don't have the receivers to beat the Seattle secondary man to man on the outside - to execute the game plan you have to be able to get open, if you can't get open receivers because it's a personnel match up problem in their favour then your game plan has to be something that the players you have can effectively run against the opposition they face.

Our issue was that we went for the passing game because they stuffed 8 in the box, trying to pass to WR covered by the best secondary in the league on long plays. We didn't bunch our receivers so we let their secondary play physical at the line and thus Kap didn't have anyone to throw to.

You cite the Miller drop, he has good hands for a fromer DE but he's not a pass catching TE or receiver...
[ Edited by Buchy on Sep 17, 2013 at 3:42 AM ]
Originally posted by Young2Rice4TD:
We definitely missed Crabtree, Manningham, LMJ, and Delanie.

Without a doubt.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
My thoughts from another thread.



I have to say I'm INCREDIBLY disappointed at the lack of preparedness on the part of the coaching and offensive gameplan. The defense looked great, lost in the shuffle is the fact that the 49ers defense made Russell Wilson look like a 3rd round rookie starting his first NFL game for the vast majority of the game. Having a healthy Aldon and Justin certainly helped but the gameplan was to keep Wilson contained and keep him in the pocket as much as possible and it worked, damn well, like a blueprint for the rest of the NFL in shutting that offense down. However, a defense can only do so much when they keep being put in bad positions because of offensive turnovers and bonehead penalties.


Looking at the turnover situation, this defense played REMARKABLY well last night, a hell of a game overall. But the offense, that was an embarrassment. Roman looked like he was simply winging it, no innovation, no creativity, absolutely nothing to challenge the defense or to get Seattle out of their comfort zone. Seattle imposed their will on this offense and they looked utterly pathetic, like they were happy to rest on their laurels after the Green Bay game. Roman seemed like he had bought into the hype and seemed to be trying to replicate the gameplan against Green Bay....against a FAR better secondary. It was an absolute joke, this was a team that had curb-stomped the 49ers the last time they played and the offensive gameplanning was essentially mailed in.


It's results like last night's why I think Roman is incredibly overrated. He'll put together some tremendous gameplans against flawed defenses such as Buffalo last year, as well as Chicago, who in spite of their success and racking up turnovers early on, were highly overrated defensively. Green Bay this year, I'm sure he'll put together a brilliant gameplan to light up a spotty Colts defense this weekend, but when this guy gets put on the spot, when he truly has to gameplan against a high quality defense, he routinely craps his pants and puts together a mediocre gameplan. You can't say that isn't true either, this team simply goes into the fetal position against top-tier defenses, doesn't even look like the same team out there, just highly predictable playcalls that good defenses eat up.


You can only get away with that so much. What they've been doing against Seattle the last two times, flat out has not worked. I'm hoping, that they don't plan on hitting their heads against a wall the third time and expecting that the possible return of Manningham and Crabtree will all of a sudden make everything alright. They need to attack Seattle in a vastly different fashion than they do against a majority of teams. Seattle's defense is ideally setup to shutdown this team's normal offensive playcalling and that defense gets up for games against the 49ers like crazy.

This.
Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman, who shadowed Boldin for much of the game, was quick to point out afterwards that Boldin's one reception did not come against him.
Cheap, cheaper, Sherman.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by Young2Rice4TD:
We definitely missed Crabtree, Manningham, LMJ, and Delanie.

Without a doubt.

We have a back that is better than LMJ in the open field, in my opinion. Kendall Hunter is healthy and we didn't pass to him or use him in the running game at all. Maybe one play? Patton would have helped too. I think it was the mind-numbing penalties that just killed us on top of Kaepernick's poor choices. When an excellent secondary like Seattle doesn't give you anything deep, you have to take underneath routes like Alex always did when he came up to Seattle. Alex beat Seattle consistently throughout his career, and now Kaepernick has gotten a total of 16 points in two games and had something like 6 or 7 turnovers.
I'll give Seattle props for doing what they did to the niner's but after re-watching this game, the hawks won because the 49ers gave it to them. Russell couldn't move the ball and if you watch the game the only reason they scored whether its 3 or 7 points was because of field position due to turnovers/Stupid pass interference/Stupid penalties that continued the drive. I'd say the only legit drive was the 51 yrd pass to Baldwin. If the Niners can correct their problems in offense against Sea and clean up their penalty issues the Dec 8 game would be a good game unlike the sloppy game we all just witnessed.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=330915026
Originally posted by 49ersOnMINE:
I'll give Seattle props for doing what they did to the niner's but after re-watching this game, the hawks won because the 49ers gave it to them. Russell couldn't move the ball and if you watch the game the only reason they scored whether its 3 or 7 points was because of field position due to turnovers/Stupid pass interference/Stupid penalties that continued the drive. I'd say the only legit drive was the 51 yrd pass to Baldwin. If the Niners can correct their problems in offense against Sea and clean up their penalty issues the Dec 8 game would be a good game unlike the sloppy game we all just witnessed.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=330915026

I wouldn't say the Niners gave it to them, rather the Niners made a lot of stupid mistakes, bone-headed penalties. I even thought Frank Gore was going to get penalized when he pushed someone's face. I'm sure that Seahawks were talking a lot on the field. Harbaugh needs to coach his players to be smart. If Seattle thinks they can get under the skin of our players, they'll keep doing it, keep trying to intimidate and act like a bully. What really surprised me is how badly Joe Staley played. On a lot of running plays and pass blocking miscues, the replay showed Staley getting beat, missing his blocks, etc. I'm sure that he wasn't the only one, but he is a crucial part of the line.

If the Niners want to win this year, they will need to become balanced on offense. Since Kaepernick took over, I feared this day would come, when the forever scrambling QB, quick strike deep pass-type of offense met its match, and subsequent demise. Kaepernick is good, but he's not good enough to overcome a gameplan that stops the run and the deep pass simultaneously. He has to take shorter plays and let the receivers try to gain yards after the catch. He needs to be more cerebral, instead of just trying to jam the ball in to tight windows. Kaepernick needs to mature as a QB, and utilize every part of the field, no matter how deep or how shallow he needs to go. He needs to improve his progression, checking each receiver, not locking into just one. He needs to be shifty with his eyes, use pump fakes and misdirection. These are all things that will hopefully become a part of his arsenal.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by Young2Rice4TD:
We definitely missed Crabtree, Manningham, LMJ, and Delanie.

Without a doubt.

Crabtree? His weakness is his lack of separation off the LOS and he isn't blazing quick or fast. I think Thurmond would have had no problems locking him up...if he does get a ball though, THAT is when he is dangerous (his strength and RAC abilities). He probably wouldn't have been tossed to the ground like Patton though. LOL. Manningham. Yes, his quickness off the LOS may have been a huge advantage for us esp. when running from the slot given how much attention was being given to Boldin and VD on the edges. LMJ? How would he help? It seems like we used Hunter on one snap...loss of 7 yards...he is much better than James in every facet. Delanie? Not in this game...we only used McDonald when VD got hurt and a couple targets outside that and THIS was a game I thought we'd highlight him in the soft zones for the aforementioned reasons. So again, doubt we would have even properly used him.
BTW: Does anyone have coaches film of the game? Given so many issues were in not winning the WR-CB battles in this game (assumption), is this true? Or was it our routes and designs were poor or CK was gun-shy and was hesitating?
Originally posted by Psinex:
I wouldn't say the Niners gave it to them, rather the Niners made a lot of stupid mistakes, bone-headed penalties. I even thought Frank Gore was going to get penalized when he pushed someone's face. I'm sure that Seahawks were talking a lot on the field. Harbaugh needs to coach his players to be smart. If Seattle thinks they can get under the skin of our players, they'll keep doing it, keep trying to intimidate and act like a bully. What really surprised me is how badly Joe Staley played. On a lot of running plays and pass blocking miscues, the replay showed Staley getting beat, missing his blocks, etc. I'm sure that he wasn't the only one, but he is a crucial part of the line.

If the Niners want to win this year, they will need to become balanced on offense. Since Kaepernick took over, I feared this day would come, when the forever scrambling QB, quick strike deep pass-type of offense met its match, and subsequent demise. Kaepernick is good, but he's not good enough to overcome a gameplan that stops the run and the deep pass simultaneously. He has to take shorter plays and let the receivers try to gain yards after the catch. He needs to be more cerebral, instead of just trying to jam the ball in to tight windows. Kaepernick needs to mature as a QB, and utilize every part of the field, no matter how deep or how shallow he needs to go. He needs to improve his progression, checking each receiver, not locking into just one. He needs to be shifty with his eyes, use pump fakes and misdirection. These are all things that will hopefully become a part of his arsenal.

Nice post. I agree...the bigger issue and really, where it all starts, is that this is an Anti-WCO. There are no built-in checkdown options (ala FB/RB) or intermediate options (ala Brent Jones) if those deeper routes aren't open. It "seemed" like many of our 2 or 3 receiving options were running deep and there wasn't much else if they weren't open. CK was forced to cramble and ad lib and he missed a few short ones but clearly, there were no BUILT-IN outlets. And that is brutal against a team like Seattle. We are very lucky CK didn't get injured.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by communist:
Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman, who shadowed Boldin for much of the game, was quick to point out afterwards that Boldin's one reception did not come against him.
Cheap, cheaper, Sherman.
you would like to think he would but i think he wants big money,, dorsey is a good starter so we just need a body behind him. i think with our salary cap situation it will be a cheap body which is fine,, we just need someone behind dorsey