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I-Formation, Two TE and Jumbo package.....anyone remember these?

Originally posted by SFrush:
Not necessarily because they still have Earl Thomas (all pro safety) who's versatile enough to cover a wideout in their nickel packages. Thomas coverage ability also gives Kam Chancellor more flexibility to creep into the box.

I'm sorry but I think it's very naive to expect Patton and Moore take Seattle out of their gameplan. They're very good defensively and last night their front four were manhandling our Oline.

Then how do you beat them?

What we've been doing sure as hell hasn't been working, seeing as we've gotten our asses kicked the last two times we've played them.

If it's to the point where we're that scared of the Seahawks, we might as well just hand them the division title.

Look at how Seattle is beating us, they're beating us using our gameplan, beating us at our game, and they're doing it without breaking a sweat.

The gameplan that Harbaugh and Roman came up with last night was nothing short of crap, it played right into what Seattle wanted us to do.

It's not the stadium (even though that field has been a pain since it opened), it's our game plans. Our coaching staff has no clue how to counter Seattle.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
This. It's not surprising the best secondary in the NFL was able to shut down a passing offense that only sends out 3 pass catchers on a route at most. Had we ran spread the field with WRs we could have established more of a ground game and actually move the ball.

The spread is not just about throwing, its about creating room to run. That's the key

I agree with this x1000. Running primarily 2 WR formations against that defense is futile, you need to spread them out, have 4 or 5 targets going downfield...its not like they were biting on the playaction or read option fakes anyways. Roman needs to be more Chip Kelly and less Chris Ault when facing that defense. Spread them out, get them out of their base defense to move the ball, then go back to running the Power I behind center, no more gimmicky s**t, personnel wise they are built perfectly to shutdown plays out of the pistol formation
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
This. It's not surprising the best secondary in the NFL was able to shut down a passing offense that only sends out 3 pass catchers on a route at most. Had we ran spread the field with WRs we could have established more of a ground game and actually move the ball.

The spread is not just about throwing, its about creating room to run. That's the key

I agree with this x1000. Running primarily 2 WR formations against that defense is futile, you need to spread them out, have 4 or 5 targets going downfield...its not like they were biting on the playaction or read option fakes anyways. Roman needs to be more Chip Kelly and less Chris Ault when facing that defense. Spread them out, get them out of their base defense to move the ball, then go back to running the Power I behind center, no more gimmicky s**t, personnel wise they are built perfectly to shutdown plays out of the pistol formation

Yup. I don't understand the rationale to run primarily 2 WR sets on that team. Sherman will shut down half the field IF YOU LET HIM. We had 1 WR on his side of the field all game. It's not like I'm saying run 4 WR sets exclusively. Just do it enough to get them to back off, and once they do, go back to your power run game.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201112240sea.htm


The last time we beat Seattle in Seattle, we ran the football, we stopped any kind of passing offense they could put together (which our team did do last night BTW), we only had 6 penalties, and pretty much played a field position battle. Now can spreading them out work? Possibly. I just don't recall Kaep ever making lots of quick decisions in terms of getting the ball out to the receiver. It's a nice little chess match the 49ers have to figure out. And we won't know if they've truly figured it out until they beat Seattle in Seattle. Unless the plan is to go spread and just run out of that formation, but even still I think Seattle can cover our guys, even if an extra defender is committed to the box. I do know this, I think we would be fine, even if yesterdays game plan and hardly any running at all had Kaep actually played, gasp, conservative. The defense played well enough to win the game. I think the mentality needs to be error free football, don't turn the ball over, don't make the big mistake, don't give their crowd added incentive, just try to keep the chains moving by running, passes to backs and TEs, pulling guards, etc, and Kaep running if he sees any openings. Anything to keep the chains moving. And on defense, for goodness sakes, avoid the trash talk and personal fouls. Play the game as if you're playing against the refs at well because that's how it seems its going to go. It's nothing wrong with a field position battle for certain games. And this definitely would have been the game. I don't think Seattle scores so much against them, even at home, if they had to go 80+ yards each time.
  • Garcia
  • Veteran
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Im pretty sure lining up in the I-Formation would have easily won us that game.
[ Edited by Garcia on Sep 16, 2013 at 4:13 PM ]
A lack of creativity is the problem.

1. Staff did not create a unique game plan for this particular team beyond the no huddle. They needed not-before-seen plays that totally shakes it up.
2. Staff did not account for the possibility their game plan might have to be scrubbed if it doesn't work in the second half and have a plan B.
3. Why on earth would you not throw to check downs and outlets that were wide open all game long Kaep!?

Bill Walsh wins this game.
Originally posted by NCommand:
How about instead of handing off on a fake reverse we actually RUN the reverse and see what happens with one of our speedsters. .

Yeah, if I see the fake end around again that no one in their right mind believes I'm gonna barf.

I think we didn't fool the Packers three times last week on that play, and we didn't fool the Seahawks at least once last night. That's a lot of not fooling. A world record. I can't wait to not fool all our other opponents on the same absurdly developed play which takes the receiver about 15 yards behind center so EVERYONE IN THE STADIUM CAN SEE IT"S A REVERSE...

....god help us....
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Agree. We're inconsistent at times because we run a schizophrenic offense. HarRoman outsmart themselves sometimes. I also think they are very stubborn. The offensive packages they ran tonight were like the exact opposite of what you want to do against a defense like this.

Agree

Agree
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 9erempire:
What the hell happened to these plays?

Seriously! Going with the read-option against a defense that WANTS to kill your QB? We are lucky CK didn't get hurt...seriously. We might have the two best TE's in the game and only used one. When we used the other he ran over Dick Sherman like a truck and then ONLY went back to him once VD got hurt. I'm pretty sure Hunter played one snap last night. LOL. The bigger difference was that when Wilson had to scramble, he had plenty of dump-off options. We had NOTHING. There would be 20+ yards between the LOS and our closest WR. You allow smaller guys like Williams and Patton to play man and get man-handled? How about run them from the slot or out of the Q formation. How about instead of handing off on a fake reverse we actually RUN the reverse and see what happens with one of our speedsters. Two TE's in the passing game together would be nice (one clears out while the other drops down in the zone). How about ONE positive, short play call on 1st down? Just humor me...would love to see something other than a 2nd and 17 play. Wouldn't a 2nd and 5 be cool, fans? I thought last year we played vanilla up there but this was even more vanilla (I didn't even know this was possible).

Good post.

It almost seems as if Harbaugh is convinced that the only thing Kaepernick can run is the pistol or read/option influence.

Take the training wheels off your boy, Harbaugh. Give him those easy targets over the middle with a couple of TEs or RB. Use some quickness. Make Seattle's defense work against them instead of just trying to challenge it on every play. When they blitz, throw behind it. When the stack the box, put a bunch out on the side and give your quick guys a chance to rub off some of the big Seahawk defenders. Do more than just changing the lineup positions.
Originally posted by Garcia:
Im pretty sure lining up in the I-Formation would have easily won us that game.
It would have. Look at the personnel and formation when we do use it. Look at these formations, the defense doesn't know what we are going to do. They have a better chance to with us playing the Pistol than our actual bread and butter.





We can run out of these formations. Guys can get in motion. It's much more deceiving than being all the way back in Pistol or Shotgun.
Originally posted by dj43:
Good post.

It almost seems as if Harbaugh is convinced that the only thing Kaepernick can run is the pistol or read/option influence.

Take the training wheels off your boy, Harbaugh. Give him those easy targets over the middle with a couple of TEs or RB. Use some quickness. Make Seattle's defense work against them instead of just trying to challenge it on every play. When they blitz, throw behind it. When the stack the box, put a bunch out on the side and give your quick guys a chance to rub off some of the big Seahawk defenders. Do more than just changing the lineup positions.

I'm starting to believe this. I don't think he's fully confident in Kap just yet. People like to crown Kap as the next best thing but I'm not so sure Harbs is ready to crown him as the guy just yet.

Harbs is running this Pistol because it's easy for Kap.
Originally posted by 9erempire:
I'm starting to believe this. I don't think he's fully confident in Kap just yet. People like to crown Kap as the next best thing but I'm not so sure Harbs is ready to crown him as the guy just yet.

Harbs is running this Pistol because it's easy for Kap.


That's crazy talk.

I mean, if it's true, it's insane. He gave up on Smith so easily to go to Kaepernick, and now he doesn't have faith in him?

I think the pistol has to go, at least to the point where we don't use it unless we are with a healthy lead in a game.

I'm curious.....what was so special about kaepernick that night against the Bears? Meaning, how was he able to do so well that game. It simply can't be that the Bears underestimated him?

We had the best lineup ever for that game.....healthy Crabtree & Manningham, Kyle Williams, and Vernon Davis. Lasted only a few games.
Originally posted by 9erempire:
It would have. Look at the personnel and formation when we do use it. Look at these formations, the defense doesn't know what we are going to do. They have a better chance to with us playing the Pistol than our actual bread and butter.





We can run out of these formations. Guys can get in motion. It's much more deceiving than being all the way back in Pistol or Shotgun.


Awesome pics.

Agree that those formations are more deceptive than what we've normally been using.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Yeah, if I see the fake end around again that no one in their right mind believes I'm gonna barf.

I think we didn't fool the Packers three times last week on that play, and we didn't fool the Seahawks at least once last night. That's a lot of not fooling. A world record. I can't wait to not fool all our other opponents on the same absurdly developed play which takes the receiver about 15 yards behind center so EVERYONE IN THE STADIUM CAN SEE IT"S A REVERSE...

....god help us....

In general the play action and various fakes weren't working because running that far behind the line isn't scaring ANYBODY. They need to go back to punching teams in the face on offense, getting them back on their heels and THEN running the play-action. Seattle's play action worked considerably better because Lynch and Turbin were running hard and breaking some big runs throughout the game, the 49ers b******t finesse running out of the pistol isn't scaring anyone right now.