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How did Ian Williams and Dorsey Do vs Pack?

Originally posted by Disp:
I honestly don't even remember Williams being in there, but PFF graded him as our worst player despite only 10 snaps.


So going by that Dorsey outplayed Williams, and the rotation is important.

That said though, Williams role is to be doubled and bottle up the middle while others make the pass rush so its a little flawed in that respect.

Not liking the minus signs on the secondary regardless of it being against Rogers.

1st game. Getting in the flow and fixing technicalities will come quickly me thinks.
  • buck
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Originally posted by 49erWay:
Well based on your remarks then it sounds like maybe our rotation doing "alright," and not even present on passing downs is not a very good thing.

We need some "really good" rotation for both passing and running downs.

So basically we've barely made any progress here unless Carradine is a wild card?

We have played one game.
Also, not doing well is sort of relative. The Pack did f-all on the ground, so saying they didn't do well is really sort of bs. They didn't do well in relation to a guy like Justin Smith...that is still leaves a ton of room for being pretty damn good.
Did Lemonier get any playing time? didn't notice him
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by Disp:
I honestly don't even remember Williams being in there, but PFF graded him as our worst player despite only 10 snaps.


This is why I don't pay attention to PFF, Ahmad Brooks overall is worse than Ian Williams!! WTF

Nnamdi Asomugha overall is 1.3 and 1.7 in pass-coverage...again WTF, even though Asomugha gave up a couple passes I thought he was fairly decent vs. GB.

Those numbers never tell the full story of a player, that site is garbage.
Nnamdi gave up 63 yards, had a missed tackle, and gave up a touchdown. Not a terrible game, but not a good one either.
Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:
Did Lemonier get any playing time? didn't notice him

I seen him on ST for sure but don't think he played at OLB. Brooks and Smith played almost all the snaps if I remember correctly from Maiocco's breakdown.

As for Dorsey and Williams I don't think we are going to ask a lot from them. We will play a lot of 4 man fronts with Brooks, McDonald, Justin, Smith. We played with the NT about 40 percent of the snaps last year (sopoaga 30ish, RJF 10ish). I don't think we are expecting either to get much pass rush but I am sure we would like them to at least hold so the QB can't escape up the middle. As for the run game again they aren't expected to make many tackles just hold the middle so the LBs and Justin/McDonald can get there. I doubt Williams or Dorsey will be as stout as that first year with Sopoaga or that one year with Franklin. They will probably be about average to slightly above average and let the other guys around them do the work. That being said we aren't spending much on those guys so not a big deal. I could still see us drafting a NT or maybe DE for depth next year even with Carradine and Dial back. McDonald, Smith, Williams, Carradine, Dorsey, Dial, rookie (high as 3rd round?). I don't see Dobbs being re-signed and Tukuafu is gone already. We should have a much better depth next year with Carradine, Dorsey, Dial and possibly a rookie compared to this year with Dorsey, Dobbs and Jerod-Eddie.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Sep 11, 2013 at 10:51 PM ]
Originally posted by Kolohe:
This is why I don't pay attention to PFF, Ahmad Brooks overall is worse than Ian Williams!! WTF

Nnamdi Asomugha overall is 1.3 and 1.7 in pass-coverage...again WTF, even though Asomugha gave up a couple passes I thought he was fairly decent vs. GB.

Those numbers never tell the full story of a player, that site is garbage.

Yeah sometimes their grades make no sense.

Like I mentioned in another thread, Kap had a 3.0 grade for week 1. Carson Palmer had a 7.0. How the hell was Carson Palmer more than TWICE as good as Kap was last week. I honestly have no clue.
[ Edited by SofaKing on Sep 11, 2013 at 10:52 PM ]
Williams started the game at NT. He didn't play very many snaps but for the most part it looked like he was getting pushed off the line. One play in the first half he was double teamed and gave up a good 3 yards of space. He held his own against one on one which really accounts for nothing at his position.

Here's a series where I noticed the largest contributions.

At the beginning of the 3rd Dorsey actually came on for Smith and Williams was still in at NT. First down the LT and C singled Williams and Dorsey and the G pulled. Lacy ran through the space between the C/T and Dorsey peeled off for the tackle. 2nd and 8 the C/LG/LT essentially sealed off Dorsey/Williams. Dorsey was double teamed. Lacy shot up the middle for 7yards. Mcdonald/Brooks missed the backside tackle. 3rd and 1 Williams is subbed out as the Niners switch to the nickle with Dorsey in as RDE. Rodgers in the read option. The oline run blocks to the left. Dorsey controls his blocker(Guard with LT scraping). Rodgers keeps the ball and runs for the first down since the entire front 7 fell for the run and left the back side open. 1st and 10 Dorsey at RDE. He pushes the Guard back into Rodgers but Rodgers still had enough time to find Finley at right pylon. It looked like a 35 yard throw. Whitner is able to force Finley out of bounds before he touches the ground. 2nd and 10. Dorsey at RDE. Essentially the same play. He collapses the pocket by pushing the Guard back but Rodgers still has enough time to find Cobb up the middle for a 14 yard completion. Dorsey gets replaced by Smith and the Packers score the next play.

Williams didn't look so good. I was more impressed with Dorsey but yet again at RDE he had problems finishing the pressure. Williams at NT seems to be unable to handle the DT. This isn't the verdict. I still think these guys have some adjusting to do. Dorsey showed some positive signs. He worked the Guard into the backfield in two successive downs. He also wasn't pushed off the ball. Williams is essentially riding on preseason.
Originally posted by eonblue:
Williams started the game at NT. He didn't play very many snaps but for the most part it looked like he was getting pushed off the line. One play in the first half he was double teamed and gave up a good 3 yards of space. He held his own against one on one which really accounts for nothing at his position.

Here's a series where I noticed the largest contributions.

At the beginning of the 3rd Dorsey actually came on for Smith and Williams was still in at NT. First down the LT and C singled Williams and Dorsey and the G pulled. Lacy ran through the space between the C/T and Dorsey peeled off for the tackle. 2nd and 8 the C/LG/LT essentially sealed off Dorsey/Williams. Dorsey was double teamed. Lacy shot up the middle for 7yards. Mcdonald/Brooks missed the backside tackle. 3rd and 1 Williams is subbed out as the Niners switch to the nickle with Dorsey in as RDE. Rodgers in the read option. The oline run blocks to the left. Dorsey controls his blocker(Guard with LT scraping). Rodgers keeps the ball and runs for the first down since the entire front 7 fell for the run and left the back side open. 1st and 10 Dorsey at RDE. He pushes the Guard back into Rodgers but Rodgers still had enough time to find Finley at right pylon. It looked like a 35 yard throw. Whitner is able to force Finley out of bounds before he touches the ground. 2nd and 10. Dorsey at RDE. Essentially the same play. He collapses the pocket by pushing the Guard back but Rodgers still has enough time to find Cobb up the middle for a 14 yard completion. Dorsey gets replaced by Smith and the Packers score the next play.

Williams didn't look so good. I was more impressed with Dorsey but yet again at RDE he had problems finishing the pressure. Williams at NT seems to be unable to handle the DT. This isn't the verdict. I still think these guys have some adjusting to do. Dorsey showed some positive signs. He worked the Guard into the backfield in two successive downs. He also wasn't pushed off the ball. Williams is essentially riding on preseason.

Well said! Exactly what I saw too. Hopefully it was just a 1st game jitters for Williams.
[ Edited by 808niner4lyphe on Sep 12, 2013 at 4:21 AM ]
I don't understand something on the PFF numbers. It shows Brooks with 60 total snaps run 22/rush 35/ cover3. Smith has a similar breakdown. Does that mean Brooks rushed the passer 35 times?
People in the zone seem to still believe a 3-4 defense plays a NT the majority of the time. The 3-4 is the BASE defense, which means it is the defense they draft for. The advantage of the 3-4 is the 3-4 DE's can become tackles on nickel and dime package downs. Essentially Ray McDonald and Justin Smith are 4-3 DT's with Brooks and Aldon rushing.

Tank Carradine will be a big upgrade when he is healthy. The niners will not put a premium on NT. They plan to run up scores, if this is the case other teams will need to pass to keep up, keeping the NT to 20 or less snaps per game.
Oh this game is exactly why we signed Dorsey, we will see why an if we got our money's worth. This kid is a run stopping beast. He was stuck on a terrible D last year an graded out as a top run stuffing D lineman. Dorsey never developed into the sackmaster KC thought but man can this guy plug up holes. He an Williams will be on the field alot on Sunday. I personally feel that he is an upgrade over soap an Jean Francois. So excited to see him play. He has alot of good years left
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
I don't understand something on the PFF numbers. It shows Brooks with 60 total snaps run 22/rush 35/ cover3. Smith has a similar breakdown. Does that mean Brooks rushed the passer 35 times?

I'm pretty sure "cov" is when they're lined up specifically in pass coverage on a pass play against a specific player. So Brooks was in on 35 pass rush (passing play) situations, and 3 where he was lined up in man coverage.
Originally posted by Disp:
I'm pretty sure "cov" is when they're lined up specifically in pass coverage on a pass play against a specific player. So Brooks was in on 35 pass rush (passing play) situations, and 3 where he was lined up in man coverage.

Ok. So you are saying that of 35 "pass rush" situations, some were zone coverage responsibilities, and some were "blitzes" i.e. actual pass rush situations from the LB position. Yes?