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2013 - Week 1: Thoughts after rewatching the game...

Originally posted by Karma:
Mike & Mike said this almost exactly this morning. Greenburg was livid that Staley was flagged. And of course the league has come out and said it was a mistake. I think we got our due.

Has the NFL apologized for the Superbowl yet? We have the Sports Science video to prove it now. LOL
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Marvin, I hadn't heard that before. It sure didn't work very well last time up in SEA....and if we really were doing that, SEA is one place where it should be contraindicated.

Whomeam, that sounds like a precise evaluation of what was going on. Honestly, usually the first two plays in each series, we looked like a fuster cluck about to happen. And, usually in the first two calls, that's what did happen. This is a little like cutting off your nose to spite your face....or, translated, we are waiting until D commits and then calling the play. Boy, I bet that works great up in SEA. Roman and Coach better not even consider that up there, because KAP cannot, as in definitely change things mid count up there. I kept wondering WTF was going on, but your observation just put the name on what I saw....but I couldn't figure it out. I think you did. Whatever, if we go the line in SEA, we probably should stick wth the play, and have a bailout TE or RB for every play that we needed to change out of. On those, the RB or TE become defacto bailouts. Changing plays in SEA is a non starter, because there is no way to do it. Can't believe they really did that up there last yr. jeez.


Correct...It didn't work so well in Seattle.

They know that tho. I'm very currious what they do in Seattle.

Wouldn't it be funny if all of the sudden they went uptempo in Seattle and catch Seattle flat footed?
Originally posted by Marvin49:
OK...

...to everyone who is talking about how much time is on the clock when the ball is snapped.

Its intentional.

Many teams are trying to speed up the pace, tire a defense, and prevent substitutions.

The 49ers aren't trying to do that. They wait till the last second to force the defense to declare. Thats why there are a number of shifts and checks BEFORE the snap. Thats why there used to ALWAYS be 2 plays called at the line and the QB could "let it roll" or "Kill, Kill, Kill". Now I think its "Green, Green, Green" and Kill, Kill Kill". At Stanford, Luck had THREE playcalls at the line.

This is just the way the offense is built. Even when Alex was in there they would almost always snap the ball with only a few seconds on the clock. Kaep is still a young player. Thats just the way it is and he'll improve as time goes on. There is justa ton of stuff that happens before the snap and it partially how we end up with recievers running WIDE OPEN at times because they get into the correct alignment most of the time before the snap.

This DOES create issues when players can't hear tho. I'm very curious how they will adjust next week in Seattle.

Yes, the Niners will make adjustments as the season goes on and Kap will also get better/quicker in getting the right play called at the line per what he sees, etc. We have to stop burning time outs, though, and also stop getting those illegal formation penalties called where players are either just lining up wrong or just aren't sure where to line up due to the expansive playbook (as Harbaugh said during his press conference earlier today). They may have to end up simplifying things a little more on O to get everyone on the same page w/ formations, beat the playclock before it hits "1" and thus, being able to save our TOs. It didn't hurt us too bad yesterday, but we need to preserve our TOs for when we truly need them. Nothing better, though, than seeing our O on those long, time-consuming drives to keep our D off the field and rested along w/ keeping the ball out of good QBs hands like Rodgers (I'm very glad we don't resort to the hurry-up O).

I'm also very interested to see what adjustments are made going up to Seattle this Sunday. If the Niners can cut down on their overall penalties and shore up their clock management (maybe snap it w/ 3-5 seconds left), look out.
[ Edited by LottDMontanaO on Sep 9, 2013 at 4:14 PM ]
Originally posted by Whomeam:
The more I watch the video of the game, I wonder if some of the blame for the play clock stuff deserves to be put on how much we switch out players on offense. It seems like every play theres 2-3 new people jogging on and 2-3 people jogging off and we have to wait for them to get out before they can huddle. And then they get the play call, then he tells the huddle the play, then they line up. Maybe if they stop switching out players so much they can get right into the huddle and save some time.

Good point. Remember, we run a college-like "package offense" where each play may have unique players for specific goals in mind. I think every single player on the active 46 (offense) got on the field, even Patton. It's usually in stark contrast to Fangio's defense. LOL
Originally posted by Karma:
Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:
I'm laughing at some people crying about not checking down enough...after throwing for 3 TDs, 400+ yards and a W. So now people care about QB play?

I think it's just an area of his game that could improve. If you look at the Super Bowl and the regular season finale in Seattle, you see two teams that took away the deeper passes and the edge rushing of Kaep. Heck, Kaep and Crabtree made a living with the quick slant and YAC. I don't think anyone is saying that Kaep should have thrown more checkdowns yesterday. I think we just want to see more diversity to continue his development. Green Bay decided to take away all of the running game and left themselves vulnerable deeper because they don't have the talent in the secondary. Teams like Seattle will be able to use less man power to take away the 15+ yard completions. Kaep just needs to improve his 5 yard touch passes. Look at the rocket he fired at McDonald that would have been a first down. We certainly don't want to go back to the days when Gore lead the team in receiving and we averaged 4 yards per completion, but right now touch passes/check downs are Kaep's weakness.

Being his 11th NFL start, there are definitely areas that he'll need to and will improve on. But it is silly to be nitpicking at Kap after going 27/39, 412 yards, 3 TDs and no picks. Not saying you per se are doing the nitpicking and I actually get your point, but a passer rating of 129.4 means you did just about everything right. So it just seems a little off to hear people saying, "well, he could did this better" or "he coulda done that better."
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Sep 9, 2013 at 4:03 PM ]
Originally posted by wrongway9erfan:
Nice analysis Marvin. Always a great read. I think all the read option hype worked well against the Packers even though Kap didn't use his run part of the option as he did against GB in last year's playoff game. Roman has turned the read option into a triple option by adding the play action--this is why Kap had a little more time to throw because he was freezing the linebackers and then they have to make up for lost time against the likes of VD--good luck with that. The read option wrinkle is great because it is always keeping the defense wondering what the heck is coming next. This Sunday in Seattle expect Roman to blow up their defense with a lot of running inside & outside. The Seahawks run defense isn't very good as we shall find out.

The hype is not what worked against the Pakcers, they simply 100% completely dedicated their defense to stopping the read option and rolling coverage on top of Boldin or Vernon, most times. It is pretty simple really, they simply stuck to a press zone coverage most of the game, almost always had one spy on the inside of the hashes on Kap and had their D end's rushing up the field. What this did is simple, it took away every real option of "the read-option". On the other side of the coin donating so much personnel and position exposed their secondary as the coverage was being dictated pre-snap via our formations. The point I think most people on here are missing is that, the Packers did EXACTLY, what they wanted to do in this game, they wanted to force a shoot out and were betting that their QB could out perform the 9ers, now everyone in the league can see what selling out to stop the read option and trying to force a QB duel ends like.
[ Edited by nvchamp9ers on Sep 9, 2013 at 4:46 PM ]
BTW...another bonus to using the entire play clock especially against up-tempo teams?

It makes the 49ers control the clock in a BIG way and also keeps the 49ers defense on the bench resting so they have energy for the next No Huddle, Up tempo drive from the opposing team.

The Packers wanted to go up tempo all game and it never worked because the 49ers offense kept giving the 49ers defense a long rest.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Sep 9, 2013 at 4:30 PM ]
Originally posted by Marvin49:
BTW...another bonus to using the entire play clock especially against up-tempo teams?

It makes the 49ers control the clock in a BIG way and also keeps the 49ers defense on the bench resting so they have energy for the next No Huddle, Up tempo drive from the opposing team.

The Packers wanted to go up tempo all game and it never worked because the 49ers offense kept giving the 49ers defense a long rest.

Great point. Key stat is the Packers only ran 58 plays despite running an up-tempo offense. We dominated TOP. That's going to help for next week. We'll have fresh legs going into Seattle, unlike last year when the Patriots ran 90 plays on us the prior week.
[ Edited by SofaKing on Sep 9, 2013 at 4:32 PM ]
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Marvin, I hadn't heard that before. It sure didn't work very well last time up in SEA....and if we really were doing that, SEA is one place where it should be contraindicated.

Whomeam, that sounds like a precise evaluation of what was going on. Honestly, usually the first two plays in each series, we looked like a fuster cluck about to happen. And, usually in the first two calls, that's what did happen. This is a little like cutting off your nose to spite your face....or, translated, we are waiting until D commits and then calling the play. Boy, I bet that works great up in SEA. Roman and Coach better not even consider that up there, because KAP cannot, as in definitely change things mid count up there. I kept wondering WTF was going on, but your observation just put the name on what I saw....but I couldn't figure it out. I think you did. Whatever, if we go the line in SEA, we probably should stick wth the play, and have a bailout TE or RB for every play that we needed to change out of. On those, the RB or TE become defacto bailouts. Changing plays in SEA is a non starter, because there is no way to do it. Can't believe they really did that up there last yr. jeez.


Correct...It didn't work so well in Seattle.

They know that tho. I'm very currious what they do in Seattle.

Wouldn't it be funny if all of the sudden they went uptempo in Seattle and catch Seattle flat footed?

Said it in another thread but I am begging for the first 20 plays to be scripted...no huddle.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
MAN its great to be back in the regular season again.

1) Kaep (and I know the Kaepernicks say Kap...I just can't bring myself to do it...lol): CAREER regular season statline as a starter - 8 starts, 147 comp, 231 att, 63.6 comp%, 2012 yards, 8.7 YPA, 13 TDs, 3 INTs, 104.75 QB Rating. Not bad for a kids first 8 starts. Add in the Postseason and it looks even better. He wasn't perfect yesterday though. He's still having issues with the play clock. I think some of that is the coaching staff not getting the play in there in time, but I only once saw him call timeout before the clock expired. He's not seeing the clock as much as he should and Harbaugh is the one who's having to call TO.

2) Packers defensive scheme: Interesting. It looked to me like the DE's and OLBs of the Packers would rush up the field and stop once they got parallel to Kaepernick. At that point they'd stop and try to loop under or at least close the gap so he couldn't escape. This seriously limited his ability to scramble. Additionally, they played the CBs close to the line so that while the OLB would run right at the mesh point on any read option play, the DB would come up and make a hit on the QB if he kept it. Smart. Decent plan. What they did is force Kaepernick to stand in the pocket and beat them with his arm. Unfortunately what they also did was give him extra time in the pocket by altering the rush of the DEs and OLBs and forced the safeties into really bad situations. I give Capers credit for making sure what happened last year didn't happen again, but unfortunately for the Packers Kaepernick can beat you from the pocket just as well as he can do so with his legs.

3) The "bad call": National Media just STOP. Much ado about nothing. This one is so freakin easy to rip apart it isn't even funny. YES, they screwed up enforcing the call. Boo-hoo. They ALSO messed up flagging Staley to begin with and messed up by not ejecting Clay Matthews when he threw 2 punches. Bottom line is that the Niners got a do-over on a 3rd and 6 when they in fact SHOULD have had 1st and goal. B***h all you want Packer fans, but the reality is that the Niners got shafted in that exchange, not the Packers. Hell...this whole thing happened because Clay tackled Kaep SIX YARDS out of bounds. Kinda hallow to b***h about an offsetting penalty when it was all started by a clearly dirty play to begin with. The 49ers just made it a moot point because they scored a TD on that 3rd and 6. Moreover, the Packers lost by SIX. Not by 4. Clay should ALSO have been flagged for taunting later in the game after tackling Kaep for a loss and that would ALSO have given the 49ers a 1st and goal. They didn't seem to have too much trouble pulling out the flag on Bowman on the Packer sideline.

4) Running Game: Not worried one bit. Packers clearly sacrificed pass coverage to kill the run game. They thought that the best way to win was to force Kaep to play QB. He did. They lost. Period.

5) Eric Reid: Really encouraged. Missed a tackle but largely played well agaist possibly the best QB in the league. Made some plays out there. Hitting people all over, even on special teams. Great catch on the INT and great D on the Free Play. Most of all tho, I didn't see Rodgers victimize the rookie. Good start.

6) Run D: Yup...the Run D is back. :) Great to see Justin in there at full strength again. Also interesting to see them subbing him out more than I've seen in the past. I kept seeing Dorsey in there and kept getting nervous because I was worried Smith was hurt. Looks like they are just trying to keep him fresh and finally have guys who can give him a spell. Will be interesting when they get Carradine back what happens.

7) Nnamdi: Eeks. Not sure what to think there. Was in position to make a play and didn't on a few. Not sure why he was standing 5 yards into the endzone on the last Packer TD. One of those missed tackles was ugly. He did tho make a good play on one of those third and longs. I'm not sure if the issue here is Nnamdi or if it's just Rodgers being Rodgers. Some of those throws and catches...wow.

8) Roman: I know there are many out there who don't like him, but I am going to be really sad to see Greg Roman go. He consistantly outschemes his opponent and he did so again yesterday. He knew exactly how to attack GB when they over corrected to stop the run and the read-option. He didn't change midgame. He was throwing the ball right out of the shoot. They PLANNED on putting the game on Kaeps arm. Even with Anquan (and more on him later) being a speed challenged player he was able to scheme him getting WIDE OPEN on some of those receptions. It's NUTS.

9) Vernon: Gotta feel good for Vernon. He's a weapon again. A big one. That has to terrify defenses. A QB who can run and a monster O-Line. You counter with LBs and then you have this freakish TE that can outrun your corners down the field. How the hell do you stop that? You counter with DBs and they just run it down your throat. Wow.

10) Boldin: Saved him for last. INCREDIBLE move by Baalke...even though we could give most of the credit to JOHN Harbaugh for picking up the phone to call his brother. Baalke gets credit for saying yes. I've spent most of the offseason on Seattle Seahawk boards. All I heard all offseason was that Boldin was an old-man and he doesn't get separation. I heard that it worked in Baltimore because Flacco trusted him to throw it when he wasn't really open. I heard that Kaep wouldn't do that. Yeah. OK. Well first off Roman schemed ways to get him open and even when he wasn't Kaep put the ball right there anyway. I don't expect him to go over 200 yards again (especially this week), but he was one hell of a pickup and I can't imagine where we'd be had that deal not been done. Just wait till Crab comes back...wow. I'm just hoping they can find a way to extend Boldin for a few years for not too much $$$ ala Justin Smith.

"KAP" - Colin Kaepernick
BS flags for unsportsmenlike conduct on us all game long.
Thanks for your time end insights Marvin.
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
MAN its great to be back in the regular season again.

1) Kaep (and I know the Kaepernicks say Kap...I just can't bring myself to do it...lol): CAREER regular season statline as a starter - 8 starts, 147 comp, 231 att, 63.6 comp%, 2012 yards, 8.7 YPA, 13 TDs, 3 INTs, 104.75 QB Rating. Not bad for a kids first 8 starts. Add in the Postseason and it looks even better. He wasn't perfect yesterday though. He's still having issues with the play clock. I think some of that is the coaching staff not getting the play in there in time, but I only once saw him call timeout before the clock expired. He's not seeing the clock as much as he should and Harbaugh is the one who's having to call TO.

2) Packers defensive scheme: Interesting. It looked to me like the DE's and OLBs of the Packers would rush up the field and stop once they got parallel to Kaepernick. At that point they'd stop and try to loop under or at least close the gap so he couldn't escape. This seriously limited his ability to scramble. Additionally, they played the CBs close to the line so that while the OLB would run right at the mesh point on any read option play, the DB would come up and make a hit on the QB if he kept it. Smart. Decent plan. What they did is force Kaepernick to stand in the pocket and beat them with his arm. Unfortunately what they also did was give him extra time in the pocket by altering the rush of the DEs and OLBs and forced the safeties into really bad situations. I give Capers credit for making sure what happened last year didn't happen again, but unfortunately for the Packers Kaepernick can beat you from the pocket just as well as he can do so with his legs.

3) The "bad call": National Media just STOP. Much ado about nothing. This one is so freakin easy to rip apart it isn't even funny. YES, they screwed up enforcing the call. Boo-hoo. They ALSO messed up flagging Staley to begin with and messed up by not ejecting Clay Matthews when he threw 2 punches. Bottom line is that the Niners got a do-over on a 3rd and 6 when they in fact SHOULD have had 1st and goal. B***h all you want Packer fans, but the reality is that the Niners got shafted in that exchange, not the Packers. Hell...this whole thing happened because Clay tackled Kaep SIX YARDS out of bounds. Kinda hallow to b***h about an offsetting penalty when it was all started by a clearly dirty play to begin with. The 49ers just made it a moot point because they scored a TD on that 3rd and 6. Moreover, the Packers lost by SIX. Not by 4. Clay should ALSO have been flagged for taunting later in the game after tackling Kaep for a loss and that would ALSO have given the 49ers a 1st and goal. They didn't seem to have too much trouble pulling out the flag on Bowman on the Packer sideline.

4) Running Game: Not worried one bit. Packers clearly sacrificed pass coverage to kill the run game. They thought that the best way to win was to force Kaep to play QB. He did. They lost. Period.

5) Eric Reid: Really encouraged. Missed a tackle but largely played well agaist possibly the best QB in the league. Made some plays out there. Hitting people all over, even on special teams. Great catch on the INT and great D on the Free Play. Most of all tho, I didn't see Rodgers victimize the rookie. Good start.

6) Run D: Yup...the Run D is back. :) Great to see Justin in there at full strength again. Also interesting to see them subbing him out more than I've seen in the past. I kept seeing Dorsey in there and kept getting nervous because I was worried Smith was hurt. Looks like they are just trying to keep him fresh and finally have guys who can give him a spell. Will be interesting when they get Carradine back what happens.

7) Nnamdi: Eeks. Not sure what to think there. Was in position to make a play and didn't on a few. Not sure why he was standing 5 yards into the endzone on the last Packer TD. One of those missed tackles was ugly. He did tho make a good play on one of those third and longs. I'm not sure if the issue here is Nnamdi or if it's just Rodgers being Rodgers. Some of those throws and catches...wow.

8) Roman: I know there are many out there who don't like him, but I am going to be really sad to see Greg Roman go. He consistantly outschemes his opponent and he did so again yesterday. He knew exactly how to attack GB when they over corrected to stop the run and the read-option. He didn't change midgame. He was throwing the ball right out of the shoot. They PLANNED on putting the game on Kaeps arm. Even with Anquan (and more on him later) being a speed challenged player he was able to scheme him getting WIDE OPEN on some of those receptions. It's NUTS.

9) Vernon: Gotta feel good for Vernon. He's a weapon again. A big one. That has to terrify defenses. A QB who can run and a monster O-Line. You counter with LBs and then you have this freakish TE that can outrun your corners down the field. How the hell do you stop that? You counter with DBs and they just run it down your throat. Wow.

10) Boldin: Saved him for last. INCREDIBLE move by Baalke...even though we could give most of the credit to JOHN Harbaugh for picking up the phone to call his brother. Baalke gets credit for saying yes. I've spent most of the offseason on Seattle Seahawk boards. All I heard all offseason was that Boldin was an old-man and he doesn't get separation. I heard that it worked in Baltimore because Flacco trusted him to throw it when he wasn't really open. I heard that Kaep wouldn't do that. Yeah. OK. Well first off Roman schemed ways to get him open and even when he wasn't Kaep put the ball right there anyway. I don't expect him to go over 200 yards again (especially this week), but he was one hell of a pickup and I can't imagine where we'd be had that deal not been done. Just wait till Crab comes back...wow. I'm just hoping they can find a way to extend Boldin for a few years for not too much $$$ ala Justin Smith.

"KAP" - Colin Kaepernick


Can't do it. I hate it. It bugs me.

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Originally posted by Psinex:
No kidding. But Kaepernick ignores his outlet passes and underneath routes to the point where he's almost greedy for long plays. If he took more underneath routes, he would eat up more clock and extend drives. With Kaepernick, it seems like it's either feast or famine. Yesterday, everything worked out well because our passing game tore up Green Bay's secondary, but let's not fool ourselves. Several of their key starters were out, and they were playing undermanned.

Against a better defense like Seattle, Kaepernick's most likely not going to throw for 400 yards. If our running game can't get going, we are going to be in big trouble. We will need shorter completions to get down field with the occasional long strike. Balance is the key.


Kaepernick is aggressive like his idol Brett Favre, he just has been good at taking care of the ball. I love my Qb
Originally posted by Marvin49:
MAN its great to be back in the regular season again.


Let me respond to your great points:

BUT FIRST - Huge props to Whitner - that play to knock Cobb upfield/inbounds and keep the clock rolling was brilliant and heady game awarenss.

1) Kaep - nothing more needs to be said, they dared him, he did it with authority.

2) Packers defensive scheme: AGREE 100% "the DE's and OLBs of the Packers would rush up the field and stop once they got parallel to Kaepernick. At that point they'd stop and try to loop under or at least close the gap so he couldn't escape. This seriously limited his ability to scramble. Additionally, they played the CBs close to the line so that while the OLB would run right at the mesh point on any read option play, the DB would come up and make a hit on the QB if he kept it." PLAY ACTION OFF THE READ OPTION - it is tough to execute because the QB's body position is way off from a throwing stance, but if they could design something it would be devastating against the above defensive scheme.

4) Running Game: - Kendall Hunter looked 110% - nice- that guy is quick!

5) Eric Reid: Loved the big - legal - hits! Very cool - he fit right in at the NFL level no problem.

6) Run D: I thought it was a little soft, but Willis and Bowman seemed to stay back a bit to hedge coverage more than blow-up run holes.

7) Nnamdi: Eeks. That was odd - he seemed to be in position a lot and then flounder. Agree, may have mostly been Rodgers, not a lot of QB's would have thrown into NA's coverage position.

8) Roman: Needs to develop a play-action throw off the read option action. The OLB is crashing inside, and the DBs are stopping their feet looking inside to cover a Kap outside run, THERE HAS TO BE A WAY to take advantage of that with a throw.

9) Vernon: He made some catches yesterday I don't think he had the hands for in the past. Very cool.

10) Boldin: INCREDIBLE - but we can't work him like that all season or he will fade, LOL. No fighting the clock, need to ease off him and keep him fresh - he is toooo valuable in a play-off run. Get some young guys some work - Patton :)