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hand out your kudos here

I'm a bit worried about pre-snap calls up in Seattle as well. People don't give a Kap enough credit for all the checks he makes at the line of scrimmage and he did it a lot against Green Bay. He won't really have that option up in Seattle. The offense was struggling with crowd noise at home yesterday. Hopefully this is the year we get W in Seattle. It would really shut that fan base up in big way!
Kudos to the ref(s) that let GB get off a snap where the play clock had already hit 0. The play they ran was the Lacy fumble where Bowman punched the ball out.
So kudos to Kap for his presnap reads yesterday. I know clock management takes away from that some but he still more times than not checked to just the right play and kept GB's defense on their heels for most of the game!
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Clearly you and I don't know the cause/effect here. Maybe all the pre-snap activity is partly the reason why teams have difficulties stopping this pretty explosive offense. You say it's hurting us, but I see no actual/direct proof of that. IMO, Kap being a young QB still struggles to play at the right tempo, getting guys lined up immediately after the last play is over so there's enough time to call the next play, make all the pre-snap reads and execute.

Production-wise, it makes no sense to me to schematically change what they're doing or how they're doing it. What makes more sense is to have Kap play with better tempo, and that will happen over time. We forget sometimes that this is only his 11th start ever in the NFL.


It it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

I see people shifting around, the clock winding down, Kap looking to his left, yelling at a TE (putting his eyes away from the gameclock), the TE begins to move, and then we call a timeout. We do a HECK of a lot of shifting, more than I have ever seen from this team. Is it the reason that we have been successful? I highly doubt it. It is the reason we are getting false starts, delay of games, wasted time outs? I think it is a strong contributing factor. Being able to prove it is obviously impossible.

We'll see how we look up in Seattle. I just don't want to picture a scene where Kap is running around, yelling at players to line up over here, or over there. Where the clock is winding down, the crowd is deafening, and then we waste all our timeouts before the 1st quarter is even over.

We'll have to see how it all plays out in the ultimate pre-snap testing ground. Seattle.

I hear what you're saying, but I also don't think a team should make drastic changes to something that is working ~95% of the time. If what they were doing wasn't getting results and racking up the timeouts/false starts/delay of games, I'd agree wholeheartedly with you. But for the most part, this is working and has worked for Harbaugh everywhere he's gone, so I personally see no reason for major changes.

Regarding Seattle, they'll likely work out a system of hand signals/silent counts (as most teams do), but that's only 1 game a year in that kind of extreme environment. Again, not a reason in my book to overhaul what you're doing and what's been working. As this season wears on and going into next season, I doubt the delays in play-calling/pre-snap adjustments will be much of an issue.
Kudos to no-one getting hurt yesterday
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
Kudos to no-one getting hurt yesterday

This is actually not true. Clay Matthews sprained his vagina.
Kudos to the Pack stopping the read-option, enabling Kap to showcase his arm to the tune of 400 yards
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Well why don't you go back and see why it was 3rd and long on a few of those plays. Was it due to penalties or just a good play by their defense?

Greg Roman has to dial up those plays, in order for them to be in the right situation to gain all those yards and a 34 point score. This isn't the run-n-shoot, where receivers are just running out and finding the soft spots in the zones or on the fly adjustments.


Some of them were penalties yes, but only due to the complications our pre-snap activities create. We run all over the place, sometimes the clock runs down, resulting in a penalty. That goes on the scheme. We also have to call timeouts because of the pre-snap running around. Half the time Kap has to correct someone who is lined up wrong, wasting more time.
Sometimes the lineman are sitting there in the stance, listening to Kap yell and holler at players to line up correctly, this causes false starts.

The SCHEME is what is creating the foundation for the delay of games and false start penalties.

I didn't see Green Bay running around so much. How come they can run a powerful offense without all the pre-snap complexity and confusion? I just don't see how it is worth it. ONE guy shifting, fine, but when I see half the team running around, backwards, forwards, left, right. That is TOO much, and it definitely hurt us more than it helped us.

If we think we can do all this stuff in Seattle, with all that noise, we will be rudely awakened with three times as many false starts, time outs wasted, delay of games and busted plays.

Dude your talking about scheme and pre-snap mistakes, not to mention comparing the two offenses which I have no clue why.

And after all that said, WTF does that have to do with play-calling??

If Kaepernick checks outta a play and gets a delay of game, how is that play-calling at fault? We all know, that HC to QB communication has to be precise (don't know if that's the word I'm looking for), the HC will tell his or coach his QB to audible if he doesn't like what he sees in the defense. Offenses and defenses are constantly adjusting to each other pre-snap, that has nothing to do with play-calling.

What I'm giving kudos to Roman for is the way he mixed it up and beat GB's defense unexpectedly.
Kudos to Harbaugh constantly riding the refs about getting calls right. I know the refs probably dread 49er games and the rest of the NFL fans look Harbs as a baby... but I agree with Him the majority of the time. Our shifts on the Oline or the late hit by Mathews etc .. It's good to see a coach that is going to stay on top of the Refs to make sure they do their jobs correctly.
kudos to cj spillman for tackle of packers return man inside the 10 yard line--way to get downfield
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Dude your talking about scheme and pre-snap mistakes, not to mention comparing the two offenses which I have no clue why.

And after all that said, WTF does that have to do with play-calling??

If Kaepernick checks outta a play and gets a delay of game, how is that play-calling at fault? We all know, that HC to QB communication has to be precise (don't know if that's the word I'm looking for), the HC will tell his or coach his QB to audible if he doesn't like what he sees in the defense. Offenses and defenses are constantly adjusting to each other pre-snap, that has nothing to do with play-calling.

What I'm giving kudos to Roman for is the way he mixed it up and beat GB's defense unexpectedly.

Mods and Ghost: You are circling the wagons here.

NO TEAM in the NFL in the last 40 years has had as many delay of game penalties during a season as we did last year.

Not one.

That is a problem that needs correcting. It's obvious and you are both in denial about it.

You are also unfairly blaming Kap if you think the problem is all due to pre-snap improvising and other adjustments.

The playbook is too complicated for professionals. It's overly baroque and needs to be trimmed.

This was an embarassment last year and Harbaugh promised it would be corrected.

It hasn't been.

Last week the shifts, formations, play options, designed reads etc were ineffective in developing a ground game against the Packers (35 rushes, 90 yards -- subtract one run by Hunter and it's 34 rushes, 70 yards).

What was missing from the game was nimble adjustment from the booth. We shouldn't rely on a sophomore QB to figure out how to improvise and scheme running plays at the line.

I think back on the preseason and how quickly Denver pushed in plays to take advantage of Lemonhead blowing past the tackle and I wonder, why can't we have that too? I think we're in love with our own complication and are reluctant to accept the evidence that is in front of our eyes when it's not working.

Also, the idea that our muddling is somehow "setting up" the pass game is a day dream.

Shooting ourselves in the foot like this is the reason the game was close against a mediocre Packer roster that would be NOWHERE without Aaron Rogers.

We won't be so lucky against a stacked team that is clicking on all cylinders.
[ Edited by brodiebluebanaszak on Sep 10, 2013 at 3:05 AM ]
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Mods and Ghost: You are circling the wagons here.

NO TEAM in the NFL in the last 40 years has had as many delay of game penalties during a season as we did last year.

Not one.

That is a problem that needs correcting. It's obvious and you are both in denial about it.

You are also unfairly blaming Kap if you think the problem is all due to pre-snap improvising and other adjustments.

The playbook is too complicated for professionals. It's overly baroque and needs to be trimmed.

This was an embarassment last year and Harbaugh promised it would be corrected.

It hasn't been.

Last week the shifts, formations, play options, designed reads etc were ineffective in developing a ground game against the Packers (35 rushes, 90 yards -- subtract one run by Hunter and it's 34 rushes, 70 yards).

What was missing from the game was nimble adjustment from the booth. We shouldn't rely on a sophomore QB to figure out how to improvise and scheme running plays at the line.

I think back on the preseason and how quickly Denver pushed in plays to take advantage of Lemonhead blowing past the tackle and I wonder, why can't we have that too? I think we're in love with our own complication and are reluctant to accept the evidence that is in front of our eyes when it's not working.

Also, the idea that our muddling is somehow "setting up" the pass game is a day dream.

Shooting ourselves in the foot like this is the reason the game was close against a mediocre Packer roster that would be NOWHERE without Aaron Rogers.

We won't be so lucky against a stacked team that is clicking on all cylinders.

This.

4 timeouts wasted due to endless shifting and getting the plays in late. That is MOST of our timeouts burned for nothing. Incredible.
False start on Goodwin (should never happen with a center).
Illegal formation: Turns 3rd and 1 into 3rd and 6 at the goal line.
False start on Staley, just after Kap had to scream to correct people where to line up.
Kap sacked by Matthews on a read option, a play where everybody in the stadium knows the Packers are not going to buy a Kap fake to the running back.
On the next play, another false start on Goodwin. Again, the center is a player who should never false start.
Quarterback keeper for -3 yards. Risk injuring Kap on a play that never had a chance.
Tons of rushing plays for negative yardage.

Our brilliant scheme created:
Four lost timeouts.
Three false starts (this is a HOME game).
One Illegal formation.
Two big hits on Kap for negative yards.
TEN rushing plays for 1 yard or less.

Not only this, but if I was on the other teams D-line, I would just look at the clock and rush the moment it was about to hit "0" because almost every play we were barely able to get the ball snapped in time.

No other team in the league bumbles around like this before the snap, yet other teams, like the Broncos, Patriots, Packers, Saints, Falcons, and many others can run a powerful offense without the pre-snap tap dancing.
I find it incredibly hard to believe that Kap NEEDS all this scheme to be effective. "Well, if we didn't do all this mumbo jumbo, we wouldn't be as effective." That is bull. We were effective because of the immense TALENT that we have on offense. The scheme is not helping us. The only difference between what Kap did last game and last year, is that he had more pass attempts, therefore, he had more passing yards.

The coaches have already talked about simplifying what they are doing, and they sure as heck better get this right before going up into Seattle.
We should have had a comfortable win against Green Bay, but with all the bumbling around, we made it a close game. Bumbling around up in Seattle is not going to create a favorable outcome.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Sep 10, 2013 at 7:55 AM ]
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
kudos to boldin for blocking the s**t out of shields and then punking him when the fight started lol

+1