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Impressions after today's game

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
35 carries for a microscopic 90 yards.

Hmmm.

Not going to put this all on the oline.

But something wasn't right. More likely the scheming than the execution.
they purposely ran it up the middle to GB's fat guys the first 3 quarters, then started running it outside in the 4th and they got some yards.
Originally posted by strat1080:
Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
what I got from that game, packers dline is full of fat dudes. the offensive line holds on every play for the packers, and should have been way more calls for it. But overall team looks fine, should jell as the season goes and also improve when crab and manham come back.


To be fair. I saw plenty of un-called holds for the Niners. All in all the refs let em play for this one. I saw Rogers constantly tugging Randall Cobb's jersey . He just couldn't run with him. For the most part it was just the blatant stuff that called.
NO, NO, NO, the packers were holding EVERY SINGLE PLAY! Every slow motion replay, there were blatant holds by GB's oline.
11 Penalties that helped produce 14 points.

Way too long getting plays off again.

Our defense is not as good. Our DB's were not good and our pass rush was horrible.

Our OL has always been overrated in the running game IMO. It just finally showed up.

I have no idea how Matthews wasn't tossed for punching Staley in the face. Staley did nothing to get a penalty there.
[ Edited by bigwads on Sep 9, 2013 at 9:26 AM ]
  • cciowa
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oh and the other thing I am very very happy we have a good locker room unlike the dolphins who had a nice win but wallace b***hing about getting one catch,, and while some are down on our run game yesterday ( i am not one), we are not like the giants who are now having to give a tryout to brandon jacobs. its just a little thing but again I am very happy about the culture and climate that has been created here
Plain and simple, the defense isn't good unless it's rested. If we're going to throw the ball a lot, that's not going to eat up clock, which is why running the ball is a defenses best friend.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by MSteitz468:
NO, NO, NO, the packers were holding EVERY SINGLE PLAY! Every slow motion replay, there were blatant holds by GB's oline.

ok, just stop. there is holding everywhere, we held to. some people really get carried away in their hysteria about the refs and it really takes away from the game. with one or two exceptions they have nothing to do with anything and as you saw, even if your theory is true,, we were good enough to overcome that silly stuff,. that is what good teams do, they do not set there complaining about the refs or calls or non calls,,. they just play the game,,, my only deal is to get this s**t straight in regards to getting plays in on time. jesus
A couple of things for me.
1) More substitution of the Defensive line to keep them fresh into the 4th Quarter. I only saw Dorsey in a couple of times and it looked like he held his own against the run - didn't notice him much on passes. Put Dorsey in on first down and then put Ian Williams in.
2) Run scheme was very unimaginative. I have to believe it was intentional, but a concern nonetheless.
3) Sure wish Kap had connected on that pass to Kyle Williams. Kyle had opened a HUGE gap behind the defense, but Kap waited abit too long, or didn't put enough air under the ball (and yes, the defender got there early and prevented Kyle from making the catch). If Kap can connect with another WR on a couple of long passes early in the season, this whole thing will open up.
4) I know it was a tight game, but I sure would have loved to have seen the Rookies in a bit more. I saw Patton blocking on one play, but that was it. No sign of Lemon at all. See point #1 above.
5) Sorry, but the new Kicker isn't inspiring confidence. Dawson didn't kick it out of the endzone like GB's kicker did, and that funky rotation he puts on his FG attempts invites the ball to drift, especially in the Candlestick breeze.
6) Timely snaps - if Kap tries to do an audible confirmation/calloff on every snap up in Seattle, it will be ugly.
7) Too many times the defense played "soft" - one CB or both giving the WR a 5-10 yard cushion. Hate it hate it hate it.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by bigwads:
11 Penalties that helped produce 14 points.

Way too long getting plays off again.

Our defense is not as good. Our DB's were not good and our pass rush was horrible.

Our OL has always been overrated in the running game IMO. It just finally showed up.

I have no idea how Matthews wasn't tossed for punching Staley in the face. Staley did nothing to get a penalty there.
over rated in the run game? my lord we had the best run blocking line in the nfl last year. sunday was a case where green bay was set to stop the run because they did not respect our ability to pass. they had three fat guys plugging up the middle and thats tough for anyone.. did you not notice when we needed a tough yard we got it,, when we got into the red zone our run game led by gore came through, when we ran a sweep outside we did well. there is nothing over rated about this line in regards to the running game,. Last year my issue was pass protection and they were more than good yesterday in that area. our defense made plays when they needed to. good pressure on rogers, batted down pass by brooks, great stop by bowman at crunch time. great play to keep the wide out in bounds at the end. after we struggled tackling in the first half, that got corrected in the second half
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by MSteitz468:
NO, NO, NO, the packers were holding EVERY SINGLE PLAY! Every slow motion replay, there were blatant holds by GB's oline.

ok, just stop. there is holding everywhere, we held to. some people really get carried away in their hysteria about the refs and it really takes away from the game. with one or two exceptions they have nothing to do with anything and as you saw, even if your theory is true,, we were good enough to overcome that silly stuff,. that is what good teams do, they do not set there complaining about the refs or calls or non calls,,. they just play the game,,, my only deal is to get this s**t straight in regards to getting plays in on time. jesus

Sorry but some of the holds were so blatant that I had to involuntarily laugh out loud. One that stands out was where SEVERAL of our guys were trying to disengage from blockers to chase down a Green Bay player (don't recall if it was a RB or WR) heading downfield, yet could not because they were ALL grabbed to keep them from going AWAY from, not through, the blocker. It was so blatant that I just knew there'd be a call, but of course, there wasn't. Yes, I saw holds on both sides, as there always are, but you'd expect the really obvious ones, like that, to be called. Call me a homer, but it seemed GB got away with alot more than SF.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
35 carries for a microscopic 90 yards.

Hmmm.

Not going to put this all on the oline.

But something wasn't right. More likely the scheming than the execution.


Is basically picking their poison. I guess they priortized their D in stopping the run and read-option and would rather taje their chances in playing Kap's passing game.

Having said that, they had great formations. I felt we didn't make enough adjustments. No way you can let Matthews just bullrush through a gaping hole to attack your QB and RB in such a dominant fashion. We just didn't have the right match-up to stop Matthews. Every team we play this season are going to look at yesterday's tape. We need to play a fast and strong body to counter such a guy. We will be playing the Texans this season, imagine what might JJ Watt do to us if we don't have that person to neutralize him ? So, in that sense we were a bit passive as in playing to what the opposing D gave us.

If you think about it, we basically simplified the task for them. The fact that we pretty much just abandoned the QB run meant all they had to do was to stop the traditional RB run. I guess they probably thought the 9ers' strength was really in our running game and if they could make us one-dimensional and forced us to throw they would have a far better chance in winning the game. But, sorry to say they under-estimated Kap, Anquan and Vernon.
The packers are 5 deep on the defensive line with good players. Raji and Jolly are great run stoppers. Nothing to do with bad play calls or scheme. If you watch the trenches those two just consistently won their match ups.
[ Edited by natrone06 on Sep 9, 2013 at 10:48 AM ]
Originally posted by socal9er42:
A couple of things for me.
1) More substitution of the Defensive line to keep them fresh into the 4th Quarter. I only saw Dorsey in a couple of times and it looked like he held his own against the run - didn't notice him much on passes. Put Dorsey in on first down and then put Ian Williams in.
2) Run scheme was very unimaginative. I have to believe it was intentional, but a concern nonetheless.
3) Sure wish Kap had connected on that pass to Kyle Williams. Kyle had opened a HUGE gap behind the defense, but Kap waited abit too long, or didn't put enough air under the ball (and yes, the defender got there early and prevented Kyle from making the catch). If Kap can connect with another WR on a couple of long passes early in the season, this whole thing will open up.
4) I know it was a tight game, but I sure would have loved to have seen the Rookies in a bit more. I saw Patton blocking on one play, but that was it. No sign of Lemon at all. See point #1 above.
5) Sorry, but the new Kicker isn't inspiring confidence. Dawson didn't kick it out of the endzone like GB's kicker did, and that funky rotation he puts on his FG attempts invites the ball to drift, especially in the Candlestick breeze.
6) Timely snaps - if Kap tries to do an audible confirmation/calloff on every snap up in Seattle, it will be ugly.
7) Too many times the defense played "soft" - one CB or both giving the WR a 5-10 yard cushion. Hate it hate it hate it.


IMO this is a great post and accurate.

One slight comment. I just don't think that Williams is a starting quality WR. I've made this point before and I don't want to belabor it, but it just bothers me that the Niners haven't done anything about it. He lacks any explosiveness (People mistake his choppy running style for explosiveness; it's not). There's no burst and quick twitch change of direction that one expects out of shorter receivers. I don't think one's going to suddenly change. He's in his fourth year and has basically shown nothing. IMO there were at least three receivers the Niners cut who were better. Don't believe that Brandon Moore is the answer either . . . he's what? another three year veteran who has shown nothing in games. Just wish the Niners would give Patton more chances, because I believe that he will prove to be the best of the rest.

Now on the long ball to Williams: At the time I thought that real starting caliber WR would have made that catch. A WR has to guage the flight of the ball and adjust accordingly. Then, it's how badly do you want it. Boldin in the same position makes that catch. Later that evening on the NFL Network, Michael Irvin made that exact same point. I also believe that Patton, because of the attitude he shows, also makes that catch.

Niners, in the past, have been known not to show their complete hand. Especially when an important game is coming up. So maybe that's happening here. But:

1. Yes, please more substitutions on defense. Man, give Lemonier some chances.

2. Very pleased with the play of Eric Reid. Gives one hope that he could be an upgrade at this position. Asomough . . . not so much . . . not good. DBs have to do better.

3. Dawson? Not again!

4. Kap. There's nothing smooth about the way he runs the offense. His play calling needs to improve . . . a lot. Critically, to get the offense playing in rythmn. He will improve, I'm sure, but the offseason practice would have produced better results, I would have hoped. And the Niners are playing their most critical opponent next week in their hostile stadium where getting the plays off (and rythmn) will be much more difficult. Could cost them the game.
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by socal9er42:
A couple of things for me.
1) More substitution of the Defensive line to keep them fresh into the 4th Quarter. I only saw Dorsey in a couple of times and it looked like he held his own against the run - didn't notice him much on passes. Put Dorsey in on first down and then put Ian Williams in.
2) Run scheme was very unimaginative. I have to believe it was intentional, but a concern nonetheless.
3) Sure wish Kap had connected on that pass to Kyle Williams. Kyle had opened a HUGE gap behind the defense, but Kap waited abit too long, or didn't put enough air under the ball (and yes, the defender got there early and prevented Kyle from making the catch). If Kap can connect with another WR on a couple of long passes early in the season, this whole thing will open up.
4) I know it was a tight game, but I sure would have loved to have seen the Rookies in a bit more. I saw Patton blocking on one play, but that was it. No sign of Lemon at all. See point #1 above.
5) Sorry, but the new Kicker isn't inspiring confidence. Dawson didn't kick it out of the endzone like GB's kicker did, and that funky rotation he puts on his FG attempts invites the ball to drift, especially in the Candlestick breeze.
6) Timely snaps - if Kap tries to do an audible confirmation/calloff on every snap up in Seattle, it will be ugly.
7) Too many times the defense played "soft" - one CB or both giving the WR a 5-10 yard cushion. Hate it hate it hate it.


IMO this is a great post and accurate.

One slight comment. I just don't think that Williams is a starting quality WR. I've made this point before and I don't want to belabor it, but it just bothers me that the Niners haven't done anything about it. He lacks any explosiveness (People mistake his choppy running style for explosiveness; it's not). There's no burst and quick twitch change of direction that one expects out of shorter receivers. I don't think one's going to suddenly change. He's in his fourth year and has basically shown nothing. IMO there were at least three receivers the Niners cut who were better. Don't believe that Brandon Moore is the answer either . . . he's what? another three year veteran who has shown nothing in games. Just wish the Niners would give Patton more chances, because I believe that he will prove to be the best of the rest.

Now on the long ball to Williams: At the time I thought that real starting caliber WR would have made that catch. A WR has to guage the flight of the ball and adjust accordingly. Then, it's how badly do you want it. Boldin in the same position makes that catch. Later that evening on the NFL Network, Michael Irvin made that exact same point. I also believe that Patton, because of the attitude he shows, also makes that catch.

Niners, in the past, have been known not to show their complete hand. Especially when an important game is coming up. So maybe that's happening here. But:

1. Yes, please more substitutions on defense. Man, give Lemonier some chances.

2. Very pleased with the play of Eric Reid. Gives one hope that he could be an upgrade at this position. Asomough . . . not so much . . . not good. DBs have to do better.

3. Dawson? Not again!

4. Kap. There's nothing smooth about the way he runs the offense. His play calling needs to improve . . . a lot. Critically, to get the offense playing in rythmn. He will improve, I'm sure, but the offseason practice would have produced better results, I would have hoped. And the Niners are playing their most critical opponent next week in their hostile stadium where getting the plays off (and rythmn) will be much more difficult. Could cost them the game.


I don't know about point #4. Yes, there's definitely room for improvement; this is, after all, only his 11th start. But on a day where he shredded the opposing defense and continually led clutch drives down the field, gaining 494 yards of total offense, I would not consider this a serious concern. This looks like an elite offense. I definitely didn't like that we were still taking so long to get the ball snapped, but part of that is getting the plays to Kap faster. Kap overall played a phenomenal game and showed why defenses are going to have a very tough time stopping this offense.
Originally posted by real9erfan:
I don't know about point #4. Yes, there's definitely room for improvement; this is, after all, only his 11th start. But on a day where he shredded the opposing defense and continually led clutch drives down the field, gaining 494 yards of total offense, I would not consider this a serious concern. This looks like an elite offense. I definitely didn't like that we were still taking so long to get the ball snapped, but part of that is getting the plays to Kap faster. Kap overall played a phenomenal game and showed why defenses are going to have a very tough time stopping this offense.


I hope that you're right.

But I stand by what I said. He has off-the-charts physical skills, but he's too herky-jerky calling plays at this point. And certainly not clock aware.

Also "phenominal" is too rich a characterization. The Niners scored . . . punted . . . scored . . . punted . . . scored . . . well, you get the idea. They had a lot of breaks go their way and had excellent field position, yet they allowed the Packers to stay in the game instead of putting them away. They just couldn't establish a rythmn. "Phenominal" would have been squashing the Pack when they were down.

Kap is still growing. he hasn't developed a "smooth" style yet. He's not at, say, Luck's level in that regard, for example. And I pick Luck because I consider both to be 2nd year QBs. Luck has started more games, but Kap has spent an extra year observing.

I can't lie. I'm worried about next week, because the crowd factor will make getting plays sorted out even more difficult. If Kap comes through this test playing well and victorious, I'll feel a lot better about the SB prospects.
The Niners are the Kings of the 5 yard penalty. It was annoying problem that seemingly hasn't gotten corrected since last year. It's inexcusable stuff.