What Is Baalke's Preoccupation With 7th Round Draft Choices?

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by bret:
@jeff22: If we keep a bunch of rookies, we pay them 500k/year and if we cut them they're done. But after a few years (I think it's 4) they become "vested veterans". Now they cost close to a million $ a year, and if you cut them their salary is guaranteed.

I get the financial end and a point I made in another thread was Cam should be cheaper. He is younger, has higher upside (in comparison to Skuta), and is a cheap alternative. 3/14/2013: Signed a two-year, $3 million contract. The deal included a $300,000 signing bonus. Skuta is eligible for annual $50,000 workout bonuses in both seasons. 2013: $1 million (+ $150,000 roster bonus), 2014: $1.3 million, 2015: Free Agent.

To me Cam is the better player and would cost less now. 12/21/2012: Signed a two-year, $795,000 contract. 2013: $405,000, 2014: Exclusive Rights Free Agent.

i think it comes down to that they could get something for Cam now. Skuta would probably get zilch. So the Niners are happier to let Cam go for a 7th and roll with Skuta, moreso than cutting Skuta and getting nothing.

Originally posted by monsterzero789:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by bret:
@jeff22: If we keep a bunch of rookies, we pay them 500k/year and if we cut them they're done. But after a few years (I think it's 4) they become "vested veterans". Now they cost close to a million $ a year, and if you cut them their salary is guaranteed.

I get the financial end and a point I made in another thread was Cam should be cheaper. He is younger, has higher upside (in comparison to Skuta), and is a cheap alternative. 3/14/2013: Signed a two-year, $3 million contract. The deal included a $300,000 signing bonus. Skuta is eligible for annual $50,000 workout bonuses in both seasons. 2013: $1 million (+ $150,000 roster bonus), 2014: $1.3 million, 2015: Free Agent.

To me Cam is the better player and would cost less now. 12/21/2012: Signed a two-year, $795,000 contract. 2013: $405,000, 2014: Exclusive Rights Free Agent.

i think it comes down to that they could get something for Cam now. Skuta would probably get zilch. So the Niners are happier to let Cam go for a 7th and roll with Skuta, moreso than cutting Skuta and getting nothing.

Again I get that argument but I would rather keep the player with more upside and dump Skuta. Given the option of keeping a so so player and getting a 7th or keeping a good up and coming talent and getting nothing else.....I would take the better talent any day. Granted Cam isn't all world but I think he becomes better than Skuta.

Cam Johnson was productive in one preseason game...hardly a sparkling resume. He may well have potential to be a good pass rusher...but, we have 4 OLB's now who can do it. They obviously wanted Harper, but had to create a roster spot to get him. Stockpiling draft picks is never a bad thing...they've found some good players there like BJ Daniels, RJ Francois, etc. Plus, Baalke can use them as trade bait or to move up. Given the projected quality of the next draft, I see 13 picks as a very advantageous position to be in. Gotta think big picture.

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:

Cam Johnson was productive in one preseason game...hardly a sparkling resume. He may well have potential to be a good pass rusher...but, we have 4 OLB's now who can do it. They obviously wanted Harper, but had to create a roster spot to get him. Stockpiling draft picks is never a bad thing...they've found some good players there like BJ Daniels, RJ Francois, etc. Plus, Baalke can use them as trade bait or to move up. Given the projected quality of the next draft, I see 13 picks as a very advantageous position to be in. Gotta think big picture.

Yezzir!

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Cam Johnson was productive in one preseason game...hardly a sparkling resume. He may well have potential to be a good pass rusher...but, we have 4 OLB's now who can do it. They obviously wanted Harper, but had to create a roster spot to get him. Stockpiling draft picks is never a bad thing...they've found some good players there like BJ Daniels, RJ Francois, etc. Plus, Baalke can use them as trade bait or to move up. Given the projected quality of the next draft, I see 13 picks as a very advantageous position to be in. Gotta think big picture.

I would say we have 3, Skuta doesn't fall into our idea of a pass rush specialist.

He likes 7th rounders too much. Then when we finally get one who is productive and developing we trade them away for nothing.....

baalke has a diabolical plan of compiling a roster comprisede completely of 7th round draft picks...and Kaepernick ... and Aldon Smith

Have we broken a record for offseason trades?

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by monsterzero789:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by bret:
@jeff22: If we keep a bunch of rookies, we pay them 500k/year and if we cut them they're done. But after a few years (I think it's 4) they become "vested veterans". Now they cost close to a million $ a year, and if you cut them their salary is guaranteed.

I get the financial end and a point I made in another thread was Cam should be cheaper. He is younger, has higher upside (in comparison to Skuta), and is a cheap alternative. 3/14/2013: Signed a two-year, $3 million contract. The deal included a $300,000 signing bonus. Skuta is eligible for annual $50,000 workout bonuses in both seasons. 2013: $1 million (+ $150,000 roster bonus), 2014: $1.3 million, 2015: Free Agent.

To me Cam is the better player and would cost less now. 12/21/2012: Signed a two-year, $795,000 contract. 2013: $405,000, 2014: Exclusive Rights Free Agent.

i think it comes down to that they could get something for Cam now. Skuta would probably get zilch. So the Niners are happier to let Cam go for a 7th and roll with Skuta, moreso than cutting Skuta and getting nothing.

Again I get that argument but I would rather keep the player with more upside and dump Skuta. Given the option of keeping a so so player and getting a 7th or keeping a good up and coming talent and getting nothing else.....I would take the better talent any day. Granted Cam isn't all world but I think he becomes better than Skuta.

Well, Jeff, I guess we don't really disagree about the basic point of what they did and why, just in the evaluation of the players. Personally, I would have liked to have seen them keep Johnson too rather than Skuta. But I suspect they had already made up their minds that Skuta was going to be active on game days because of special teams and Johnson was not. Again, I'd hoped Johnson had showed enough with the block and TD to sway them, but ST's were bad last year and Skuta was the first player brought in with the express intent of fixing something that was broken. I hope they're right in their evaluation.

Originally posted by jreff22:

I get the financial end and a point I made in another thread was Cam should be cheaper. He is younger, has higher upside (in comparison to Skuta), and is a cheap alternative.
To me Cam is the better player and would cost less now. 12/21/2012: Signed a two-year, $795,000 contract. 2013: $405,000, 2014: Exclusive Rights Free Agent.

Yes it's definitely NOT the money aspect, because they could have cut Ventrone (or Skuta) and saved more money. They just didn't like Cam that much (bad practices or bad special teams?). Should have cut Ventrone and/or waited for something better than a 7th.

There is no preoccupation with 7th rounders. A trade is a negotiation and just because a casual fan thinks Cam is worth more apparently no other team in the league does. Also, Baalke is doing exactly what you need to do with 7th rounders, increase your odds of any hitting by getting lots and lots of them. I know a lot of folks think late rounders are wasted picks and while most fail, they are a valuable tool. It sucks when a lot of picks can't make your team but the bottom line is the one in ten who do are actually really good. Remember at the end of the day Cam was our fourth best outside linebacker.

Simple answer, when you're as badass as the Niners are it's hard to
get quality udfa's because its tough to crack the roster.

With the trade deadline getting pushed back last year it'll be
more common to see trades in the future IMO. We can
use these picks to get someone down the road if need be.

Apparently we valued Harper more than CJ. And have placed an
emphasis on ST by keeping bubba and stupar. I think Carradines
recovery is coming along and should provide pass rush relieve
late in the season if need be.

With having 4 OLBs locked up for the next 2 seasons, we addressed
a future need with a pass catcher, since MM, AB & KW are free
agents next year. One less piece we need to add next offseason.
In turn allows us to trade up in the draft for an impact player. Or
trade a 7th for a 6th the next year.

And maybe they feel they could get a good OLB off the
street. I heard we are pretty good at developing them.

Originally posted by NinerDan:
There is no preoccupation with 7th rounders. A trade is a negotiation and just because a casual fan thinks Cam is worth more apparently no other team in the league does. Also, Baalke is doing exactly what you need to do with 7th rounders, increase your odds of any hitting by getting lots and lots of them. I know a lot of folks think late rounders are wasted picks and while most fail, they are a valuable tool. It sucks when a lot of picks can't make your team but the bottom line is the one in ten who do are actually really good. Remember at the end of the day Cam was our fourth best outside linebacker.

THANK YOU NINER DAN.

i would add to this, we have no idea about his relationship with team, coaches, classwork. 1.5 good preseason games is all we get to see.

I find it almost impossible to believe that niners F.O. would let go of a rising star for just a 7th. meaning.....how far is this star really rising?

HarBaalke have made some crazy and amazing moves this off season. I can only trust that this one falls into place to keep us competing for years to come.

Originally posted by maxsmart:

Originally posted by SFrush:

We couldn't release Stupar for him?

Having a fifth OLB who can rush the passer is more valuable than a fifth ILB imo.

Cam must have been poor in practice, because based on game 4 he was worth way more than a 7th
The Chargers tackle he was going against was a long time starter in Max Starks

Max Starks is/was garbage. The Chargers cut him the day after the Niners game. Whatever skill he had to play this game is long gone as the Bolts have one of the worst offensive lines in all of football.

All of our linebackers "had a good game" against him. All linebackers did. It's why he's no longer in the NFL.

Christ, do any of you criticizing this move know anything about football?