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What Is Baalke's Preoccupation With 7th Round Draft Choices?

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Corey Lemonier is backing up at OLB, not Clark Hagans. Cam was never going to be active, unless someone went down.
Which can happen and I included it in my post. I like Lemonier, but the Niners will be putting a ton of pressure on this kid (while he's learning on the fly) if Brooks or Aldon suffer a significant injury.
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by 49erfanatic:
We seem to trade a lot of productive or high potential players for future 7th round draft choices. I don't understand it. In a stacked roster like ours, why do you want to collect a bunch of 7th round choices who don't have much chance of making the team next year, and give away players who are already playing above their draft round? Cam Johnson is the latest example. He was injured last year, and didn't show much, but he is obviously developing, and shows a lot of promise at this point. Even Vic Fangio said he is light years ahead of where he was last year. In my opinion, you can never have enough pass rushers, and I think he will be a good one. They thought enough of him to keep him on their original 53, but now you are banking on finding another player next year in the 7th who will be better than Cam Johnson. I think there is a low probability of that happening. The only reason Cam was a 7th in the first place was that teams worried about his sickle cell anemia issue. Otherwise, he would have been drafted much higher. He has proven that endurance is not a problem for him, so his value should have gone up. And he's only going to count as minimum salary on the cap. Not like Harylson, who was being paid more. In my opinion, if a guy is playing above his draft round, you don't trade him for a lower choice. But I've noticed this is a trend with our team. In this case. we dumped Johnson for Chris Harper, who at this point, is more unproven than Johnson, and some of the other receivers that we cut.

They were going to be cut and he'd rather get a 7th than nothing.

You'r overvaluing our trash. Stop it.

Cam Johnson isnt trash at all, your dead wrong
Yeah, he has potential but let's face it this year he would have been inactive every game. We weren't going to have 5 OLB active. Skuta will only be active because he is a ST guy. Lemonier will be the backup. I think what hurt Cam is he wasn't a standout ST player. Like I said really don't think they liked having 5 OLB's. I bet 4 is there ideal #. 3 last year wasn't enough for them. Also, I'm starting to think they really don't want 5 ILBs either but think Stupar wow'd them enough and Moody looked promising enough plus him being a 6th rounder and ST guy helped. If we would sign someone else (marecic?) Stupar could be the first to go. Also, TJE or Tukuafu will likely be gone when Dobbs comes back. Also, I think all of us at one point or another over value our guys. If Haralson is worth a 7th then we are lucky to get a 7th for Johnson. Hopefully its incentive based so if he does well we can get a 6th. I would have cut Stupar or Ventrone to add Harper but I am moving on.
Originally posted by English:
Harper

We couldn't release Stupar for him?

Having a fifth OLB who can rush the passer is more valuable than a fifth ILB imo.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Right now we are expected to have at least 13 picks again, possible more, barring any other trades. If the Chiefs win 8 games, our draft pick allotment likely would look like (at the very worst)

1.
2.
2. (From Chiefs)
3.
3. (From Titans)
4.
4. (Goldson, bare minimum I'd expect for losing him)
5.
6.
7.
7. (From Panthers)
7. (From Saints)
7. (From Colts)

LMAO. It's like we are playing Madden with all those picks.
Without cluttering up enough threads with Cam J. talk, I suspect Baalke just loves keeping the draft scouts on their toes with these late round picks. That doesn't bother me. There can always be use in the late picks.. and I'd bet our guys have the arrogance to believe they can snatch up the sleeper gems. We can take a shot on prospects that we view as 5th or 6th rounders that slipped... we can trade the pick to a team dying to get one last guy, turning that 7th into a future 6th. It's much like having free access to a UDFA without having to fight for him, even.

Adding late rounders doesn't bother me at all. I just don't particularly love losing what we did for this particular one... but if this Harper kid turns out to be something? if we were just gonna cut whats-his-name anyway? if we can get a good prospect with that pick or use it to trade up? Fine... good... whateverz.
Why do people keep saying the 7's are worthless? We can always use them to trade up a few spots in the 6th and 5th rounds.
Originally posted by SFrush:
Originally posted by English:
Harper

We couldn't release Stupar for him?

Having a fifth OLB who can rush the passer is more valuable than a fifth ILB imo.

+1
[ Edited by LottDMontanaO on Sep 2, 2013 at 2:51 PM ]
Maybe not Johnson, but I would have hoped that Haralson would have been worth more than a 7th. A guy that potentially starts has to be worth more than a 7th, but that said, it's good that they are getting something back.
Originally posted by 24plus25er:
Why do people keep saying the 7's are worthless? We can always use them to trade up a few spots in the 6th and 5th rounds.

Actually we used a 216 overall to trade up 5 spots from 93 to 88 to make sure we got Lemonier. We used an early 6th to trade up from 61 to 55 to get McDonald.

Also, I would agree that in that I would probably have cut Stupar before Johnson but Stupar is most likely a better ST player. Also, seems like Skuta who is signed for 2 years after this one is here to stay and as long as he is a good ST player it's unlikely that any 5th OLB like Johnson or whoever it may be will pass up Skuta. They will be inactive because Skuta is a good ST player. That being said Skuta looked pretty good rushing the passer too. He moved to OLB only a few months back and think he had 2 sacks in his first game (?).
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Sep 2, 2013 at 3:04 PM ]
Cam has smaller legs than kap, that's why he was traded.
Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:
Originally posted by SFrush:
Originally posted by English:
Harper

We couldn't release Stupar for him?

Having a fifth OLB who can rush the passer is more valuable than a fifth ILB imo.

+1

Stupar will likely be gone too at some point. With so many guys scheduled to return from injury, the 53 will look a bit different by the end of the year.
I look at it like they are inputting place holders for future drafts, so they draft someone that they could make look good, so that they can trade for a future draft choice to potentially draft someone that could really be a surprise. I believe that the 49ers are seeing it that today's NFL, you really need to be able to explore younger players, because older players going for their second contract signs contracts that are much higher than rookies (with a rookie salary restriction in place, rookies only being able to make so much). I don't think its Baalke stacking up on 7th round choices, at least not the way that I see it, but a partial planning for the future and keeping the salary cap managed versus the nightmares that we faced in 1995-2002 seasons, that really took the team a better part of a decade to recover from in combination with bad coaching. I think in this approach, we at least have more opportunities at exploring younger players, and there is always the possibility of packaging a trade for a proven player that the 49ers organization know can help them become more competitive.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
Originally posted by NCommand:
The Haralson move made sense...he gets to start, we dump his salary and we get a 7th, albeit a late 7th basically is nothing for an established starting vet. But Cam doesnt when you factor in his ST production and his ability to pass rush at our premier position. Now, if Cam flames out and then we trade that 7th for a great, but older productive veteran starter for us, I will gladly eat crow! But no, it will NOT be packaged for a better pick. LOL. We could have easily cut the 5th ILB or Ventrone instead.

The only ST production and pass rush you saw was in the 4th preseason game against 3rd and 4th stringers. Sorry, but that doesn't exactly count. Cam did little to nothing last year in preseason, regular season and postseason (2 tackles in preseason). Cam could develop into a productive NFL player, but a premier pass rusher? I think not.

You are right that the Niners could cut their 5th ILB or Ventrone, and they probably will when guys like Carradine and Dial get healthy.

That's actually not correct. He didn't have a great 1st game and then played 3 really good games racking up 5 sacks, including a 4th down sack preserving the win, had a number of QB pressures, played on the coverage unit well and blocked a kick for a TD. If you can find a late 7th that produces more in his only opportunities next year (b/c Cam was on I.R. last year), I will gladly eat crow! If nothing else he is a good ST (we suck in this department) and you continue to develop him one more year and he then takes over for Skuta next year. You get rid of a Ventrone or Stupar (who would go to your PS anyhow). Hopefully it all ends up a moot point though!

I am not saying he didn't make progress, but he was still the #5 guy on the depth chart and probably wouldn't even suit up for games this year. I don't have a crystal ball to predict the success of a 2014 7th rounder, but Baalke did find BJ Daniels there this year and Cam last year. Anything is possible.

In regards to ST, Ventrone and Skuta were both brought in specifically to improve our ST. Skuta showed that he could also play well at OLB. Our ST should be much better with them on the roster. Now that Cam has moved on, we should just concentrate on supporting the guys they have left.
Well, there's your answer Brodie. Once the F.O. starts talking up a guy, you pretty much know he is gone.