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Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Thanks! Now to wait and see.

Not sure if you seen what AB said: "Stay on IR, since I havent heard of a injury settlement yet. They had 5 days from the 27th I believe, so 28, 29, 30, 31 and 1, today would of been that date for Okoye and Divens, and no news."

Seems like we will keep those guys and they will have a shot to compete next year. So if we would have settled with them they would have been likely gone like McBath who was going to be a FA after this year anyways so 1 less guy to worry about.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Sep 1, 2013 at 7:22 PM ]
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Not sure if you seen what AB said: "Stay on IR, since I havent heard of a injury settlement yet. They had 5 days from the 27th I believe, so 28, 29, 30, 31 and 1, today would of been that date for Okoye and Divens, and no news."

Seems like we will keep those guys and they will have a shot to compete next year. So if we would have settled with them they would have been likely gone like McBath who was going to be a FA after this year anyways so 1 less guy to worry about.

Yes, I did read that but they can still be cut loose I believe. Don't know why the team would cut them loose at this point but stranger things have happened.
  • xcfan
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Originally posted by Gore_21:
Pretty sure there have been tons of draft busts at OL in the top 40. Also, helped that he had Bobb McKittrick coaching his picks. That being said Walsh was an amazing drafter. Of course Baalke isn't up to him yet but give the guy a break in 3 of his 4 drafts he's knocked it out of the park at least IMO. Maybe he's missed on mid to late round OL but most GM's have a hard time getting one good player in a draft. Baalke has added 3-4+ in his. Yeah he could be better but we are getting spoiled. So many badly run teams that can't draft to save their lives.

baalke's a good gm, not a great gm. he drafts too much out of need--like most gm's do; thinking about their immediate job security. we filled holes with this year's draft and helped the this year's team, but we passed on some way better talent while doing it. that hurts the team in the long run. dynasty teams draft the best players, even if there are good players already at the positions. it's almost mathematical--you maximize player value with your choices and you become relatively great.
[ Edited by xcfan on Sep 1, 2013 at 7:51 PM ]
Originally posted by xcfan:
baalke's a good gm, not a great gm. he drafts too much out of need--like most gm's do; thinking about their immediate job security. we filled holes with this year's draft and helped the this year's team, but we passed on some way better talent while doing it. that hurts the team in the long run. dynasty teams draft the best players, even if there are good players already at the positions. it's almost mathematical--you maximize player value with your choices and you become relatively great.

Sure once in awhile ok to go with BPA overall but you can't just go BPA at any position every pick. Ex: So we end up with 4 QB's worthy of making the team but we are still haven't filled our starting safety spot yet? I think most GM's these days go with BPA at position of greatest need. However, if say FS is a bigger need than CB but they have the BPA at CB ranked way ahead of the BPA at FS they go with the CB. Only way I am going BPA overall is if he is ranked way way ahead of the BPA at my few positions of need. As for Baalke the guy has done a pretty good job working the draft too. He's traded down and got extra picks many times and he's traded up when he's felt he has had to. Maybe he's jumped the gun a few times but hey he keeps trading down getting extra picks why not use them to work the board? I know the guy isn't perfect but you must have really high standards. If you look at a lot of the other teams drafts they miss a ton not to mention the GM's overpaying FA's left and right and making a circus out of their team. Keep in mind Baalke during FA... for the most part done a good job getting goo value, knowing who to let go and who to sign Also, pretty sure he brought in Jim Harbaugh so you can be happy about that... or is there someone else you wanted?
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Sep 1, 2013 at 8:03 PM ]
Originally posted by xcfan:
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Pretty sure there have been tons of draft busts at OL in the top 40. Also, helped that he had Bobb McKittrick coaching his picks. That being said Walsh was an amazing drafter. Of course Baalke isn't up to him yet but give the guy a break in 3 of his 4 drafts he's knocked it out of the park at least IMO. Maybe he's missed on mid to late round OL but most GM's have a hard time getting one good player in a draft. Baalke has added 3-4+ in his. Yeah he could be better but we are getting spoiled. So many badly run teams that can't draft to save their lives.

baalke's a good gm, not a great gm. he drafts too much out of need--like most gm's do.

Um, what? Ok if Baalke is only good then I imagine you can name eight currently working (25% of the workforce) who are either very good or excellent.
  • xcfan
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Originally posted by Gore_21:
Sure once in awhile ok to go with BPA overall but you can't just go BPA at any position every pick. Ex: So we end up with 4 QB's worthy of making the team but we are still haven't filled our starting safety spot yet? I think most GM's these days go with BPA at position of greatest need. However, if say FS is a bigger need than CB but they have the BPA at CB ranked way ahead of the BPA at FS they go with the CB. Only way I am going BPA overall is if he is ranked way way ahead of the BPA at my few positions of need. As for Baalke the guy has done a pretty good job working the draft too. He's traded down and got extra picks many times and he's traded up when he's felt he has had to. Maybe he's jumped the gun a few times but hey he keeps trading down getting extra picks why not use them to work the board? I know the guy isn't perfect but you must have really high standards. If you look at a lot of the other teams drafts they miss a ton not to mention the GM's overpaying FA's left and right and making a circus out of their team. Keep in mind Baalke during FA... for the most part done a good job getting goo value, knowing who to let go and who to sign Also, pretty sure he brought in Jim Harbaugh so you can be happy about that... or is there someone else you wanted?
that's the ticket. passing on a player with a clear and significant ranking ahead of your need position is a big mistake. it becomes a big, net loss of team talent. do that often enough and you become a losing team because the other teams gained the talent you gave away and they become better than you.
Originally posted by xcfan:
a cantaloupe can pick a good o-lineman in the top 40; a genius gm finds guys after the top 100 that can make plays and be a legit starter. walsh drafted several guys late who were good o-linemen: quinlan, collie, wallace, sapolu. walsh never missed on an offensive lineman he drafted late. it looks like baalke has missed on every one he's drafted late. that means something.
hold off on proclaiming baalke a draft genius because he brings in already-highly-regarded guys. he needs his own quinlan, collie, wallace and sapolu, instead of omameh, bykowski, slowey and person. baalke isn't worthy of cult-of-personality status yet.

Just as most people seem to forget that Joe Montana had his bad days, people also seem to forget that Walsh whiffed on quite a few picks himself. Mostly, he was a great judge, but there are some exceptions, especially in the lower rounds. He picked James Owens before Montana and Tom Seabron right after him. Ever heard of those guys? Quillan, Ayers and Cross were already on the team when he took over, so he doesn't get credit for them. Bubba Paris was a second rounder so I guess a "cantaloupe" could have picked him. Guy McIntyre was a third rounder so again, cantaloupe territory. Harris Barton was a first rounder - cantaloupe. In fact, the only low-round offensive lineman I see in the Walsh era is Sapolu in the 11th and, if you remember, he was a project that took a few years to develop. So, feel free to complain about Baalke by comparing him to one of the best drafters ever, but let's be fair about it.
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by xcfan:
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Pretty sure there have been tons of draft busts at OL in the top 40. Also, helped that he had Bobb McKittrick coaching his picks. That being said Walsh was an amazing drafter. Of course Baalke isn't up to him yet but give the guy a break in 3 of his 4 drafts he's knocked it out of the park at least IMO. Maybe he's missed on mid to late round OL but most GM's have a hard time getting one good player in a draft. Baalke has added 3-4+ in his. Yeah he could be better but we are getting spoiled. So many badly run teams that can't draft to save their lives.

baalke's a good gm, not a great gm. he drafts too much out of need--like most gm's do.

Um, what? Ok if Baalke is only good then I imagine you can name eight currently working (25% of the workforce) who are either very good or excellent.

He is just a GOOD GM with arguably the BEST rosters and draft pick ammunition the last couple seasons in the entire NFL. This must be why they named him the NFL Executive of the Year in 2011. Most GMs wish they had hired our coach, drafted our players and collected our draft ammunition headed into next season
[ Edited by Pillbusta on Sep 1, 2013 at 8:31 PM ]
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by xcfan:
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Pretty sure there have been tons of draft busts at OL in the top 40. Also, helped that he had Bobb McKittrick coaching his picks. That being said Walsh was an amazing drafter. Of course Baalke isn't up to him yet but give the guy a break in 3 of his 4 drafts he's knocked it out of the park at least IMO. Maybe he's missed on mid to late round OL but most GM's have a hard time getting one good player in a draft. Baalke has added 3-4+ in his. Yeah he could be better but we are getting spoiled. So many badly run teams that can't draft to save their lives.

baalke's a good gm, not a great gm. he drafts too much out of need--like most gm's do.

Um, what? Ok if Baalke is only good then I imagine you can name eight currently working (25% of the workforce) who are either very good or excellent.

Well said. I believe that you can't name more than a couple GMs better than Baalke (I can't think of a single one right now). By definition he is at least very good. Or, all other GMs in the NFL are either just good, poor, or bad.
Originally posted by xcfan:
that's the ticket. passing on a player with a clear and significant ranking ahead of your need position is a big mistake. it becomes a big, net loss of team talent. do that often enough and you become a losing team because the other teams gained the talent you gave away and they become better than you.

I said the only way I take a BPA is if he is graded way way higher than my guys at a position of need. I didnt say I wouldn't draft a guy graded way higher than my positions of need.

Also, who is on par or better than Baalke? Maybe Reese, Newsome, Belichick (or use to be), Schneider (hasnt had as many years so not up to Baalke yet)
I count maybe 2 or 3 that are better than Baalke. I'd say maybe Reese and Newsome for what they did in the past. Belichick you could say for in the past but really at this time I'm not sure he is better than Baalke. Schneider and a few others are up-in-comers. Thompson of GB is behind as well. He's lived off Rodgers, his few good WR picks and Matthews. He's missed plenty in the draft.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Sep 1, 2013 at 8:40 PM ]
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
He is just a GOOD GM with arguably the BEST rosters and draft pick ammunition the last couple seasons in the entire NFL. This must be why they named him the NFL Executive of the Year in 2011

Thank you. Honestly, I don't know where fans are coming from who complain about Baalke. Everybody whiffs. Everybody. I could sit here naming whiffs by Walsh for the rest of the evening. How about Terrance Flagler in the first? Anyone remember Guard Jeff Bregel, a second rounder in '87? How about RB Newton Williams, his second pick in '82? Anybody ever heard of that guy?

Don't get me wrong. Walsh had some absolutely genius drafts. '86 could be the best draft anyone has ever done for any team. In '81, three of his first four picks were part of an entire secondary that went all pro that year as rookies. Montana in the '79 third round. Etc. etc. etc.
Originally posted by GNielsen:
Thank you. Honestly, I don't know where fans are coming from who complain about Baalke. Everybody whiffs. Everybody. I could sit here naming whiffs by Walsh for the rest of the evening. How about Terrance Flagler in the first? Anyone remember Guard Jeff Bregel, a second rounder in '87? How about RB Newton Williams, his second pick in '82? Anybody ever heard of that guy?

Don't get me wrong. Walsh had some absolutely genius drafts. '86 could be the best draft anyone has ever done for any team. In '81, three of his first four picks were part of an entire secondary that went all pro that year as rookies. Montana in the '79 third round. Etc. etc. etc.

Xcfan seems knowledgeable but I think he's one of those guys that loves to argue. Of course Baalke isn't perfect, maybe he isn't great with late round OL but he's one of the best GM's in the league. Some have really high standards or love to complain although I wouldn't say xcfan is fully a complainer because he gave credit for some stuff Baalke did which complainers never seem to do. Ex: well so what if he hit on Aldo, Kap, Hunter, Davis, Iupati he missed on AJ Jenkins. Guy sucks!
The 49ers are in a VERY enviable position right now, and it has allowed Baalke to do some unusual but crafty things.

The only real obvious need was a replacement for Goldson. Secondarily, and a ways back, was replacing Walker. However, for the most part, I believe Baalke got exceptional value for many of this year's picks. Specifically he grabbed guys that had been shown to be very good players in college but suffered injuries which knocked down their draft value.

Since most team draft for immediate need, they passed on guys like Carradine, Lattimore and Dial, both of whom would have gone higher had they not had significant injuries that will prevent them from playing in the early season, and maybe for the entire year. So for the 49ers, who don't need all that much help, and already have a pretty solid roster, they can "redshirt" these guys and let the older vets have another year before these kids have to find a spot on the roster. That, to me, represent a very wise strategy, and one that will continue to keep this team in the upper echelons for a ways into he future.
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Originally posted by xcfan:
baalke's a good gm, not a great gm. he drafts too much out of need--like most gm's do; thinking about their immediate job security. we filled holes with this year's draft and helped the this year's team, but we passed on some way better talent while doing it. that hurts the team in the long run. dynasty teams draft the best players, even if there are good players already at the positions. it's almost mathematical--you maximize player value with your choices and you become relatively great.

I do not think we should put Baalke on the practice squad.

If you want to carp about Baalke start your own thread.
Originally posted by NCommand:
First guess...some will be added to other's 53 and this is a fluid situation. But what the heck:

RB Jewel Hampton
WR Ricardo Lockette or Chuck Jacobs
TE MarQueis Gray (H-Back)
RB Jewel Hampton or FB Jason Schepler
CB Marcus Cooper
CB Darryl Morris
NT Lamar Divens (after recovery)
DE Lawrence Okoye (after recovery)