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Is the Option/Pistol going to be shredded in the NFL or have sustainability?

Originally posted by UKNiners:
Really? Peyton Manning is not running it. They lined up in the pistol vs us in preseason week 1 as a joke. You really think the best thrower and offensive general of his generation is really going to resort to the read option?

As too whether it lasts, probably not. It will be somewhat succeful this year but phase out just like the wildcat from 5 years ago when Sparano ran it in Miami. And this worries me. Can CK be strictly a passing QB? He has the tools, however, his passing success is a product of playing the run e.g. Read option, to a degree. What happens when that is shutdown? Additionally, will head coaches continue to be willing to put their QBs in harms way? I don't see that lasting either. Give JH credit for running an O to his QBs strengths.

As has already been stated, the Read Option and the Pistol are not the same thing. The Read Option is a play and the Pistol is a formation.

Analogy: Read Option is to Pistol what Draw Play is to Shotgun.
Originally posted by UKNiners:
Really? Peyton Manning is not running it. They lined up in the pistol vs us in preseason week 1 as a joke. You really think the best thrower and offensive general of his generation is really going to resort to the read option?

As too whether it lasts, probably not. It will be somewhat succeful this year but phase out just like the wildcat from 5 years ago when Sparano ran it in Miami. And this worries me. Can CK be strictly a passing QB? He has the tools, however, his passing success is a product of playing the run e.g. Read option, to a degree. What happens when that is shutdown? Additionally, will head coaches continue to be willing to put their QBs in harms way? I don't see that lasting either. Give JH credit for running an O to his QBs strengths.

The pistol is a formation. The read option is a play. The Wildcat is really nothing more than using a RB at QB and running variations of the read option. The Wildcat fell out of use due to predictability.

If you have a player like Kap or RG3 back there instead of a RB, you aren't nearly as limited or predictable as you would be running the Wildcat.

The reason the read option has been so effective at the college level the past 10 years is that it puts the defense in a bind. You can key on the QB, but it comes at the expense of opening things up inside for the dive man, and vice versa.

The triple option fell out of favor because QBs take a beating on the pitch virtually every single time. Otherwise it is arguably the most difficult play to defend in football. It's why Navy and Air Force remained competitive in football despite vastly inferior talent. Option football poses many problems for a defense.

The QB taking a beating isn't nearly as much of a concern with the read option. If you hit the QB while he's carrying out his fake, it's unnecessary roughness and 15 yards. The QB doesn't have to keep the ball nearly as long with the read option, and he doesn't expose himself to contact nearly as much as he would with the triple option.

It'll be awhile before it falls out of favor. A long while.
[ Edited by JamesGatz83 on Aug 30, 2013 at 12:30 PM ]
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Clearly you are confused.

Pistol and read Option are different things. They didn't do it "as a joke".

All the pistil does is allow power runn plays in either direction from a "shotgun like" set. The RB cal line up BEHIND the QB. It is simply a formation.

When it was first installed at Nevada, there was no read option element. You will see MANY teams run the Pistol this year.

I'm aware of what they are - no confusion here. And I doubt MANY teams will run it. There will be a few non creative, copycats that will use it, but by in large most coaches have already commented on how it's not for them, one and two, how they feels its a fad and have studied stopping it.

If you can't honestly admit to yourself that you wouldn't be worried about CK not running these formations, than you're confused.
Originally posted by UKNiners:
Really? Peyton Manning is not running it. They lined up in the pistol vs us in preseason week 1 as a joke. You really think the best thrower and offensive general of his generation is really going to resort to the read option?

As too whether it lasts, probably not. It will be somewhat succeful this year but phase out just like the wildcat from 5 years ago when Sparano ran it in Miami. And this worries me. Can CK be strictly a passing QB? He has the tools, however, his passing success is a product of playing the run e.g. Read option, to a degree. What happens when that is shutdown? Additionally, will head coaches continue to be willing to put their QBs in harms way? I don't see that lasting either. Give JH credit for running an O to his QBs strengths.
Rascal said Peyton lined up in the Pistol. I saw it. Peyton did line up in the Pistol formation. He ran what looked like a read option, but like you said, what defense would think that Peyton would actually keep. Any sane OLB/DE should crash down on the RB, and if Peyton decides to actually keep, let him get his 2 yards and a smackdown from a LB.

As to the bolded, Kap has shown he can drop back from under center and play like a pure pocket passer. When he lines up in the Pistol, it just makes the DE have one more thing to think about and disallows that DE to pin his ears back on a pass rush.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
While everyone is worried about the read/option, my guess is that Harbaugh/Roman have something knew up theri sleeve...like no huddle.

Pistol isn't going anywhere because it's a viable formation...read option will be a weapon in the box but it won't nor has it ever been their entire offense.

I think we will use it sparingly at the beginning of games to see how our opponent plans to defend it, and then later in the game we will run play-action fakes and deceptive run plays to counter there so called answer for "The Pistol Offense" lol.
Member Milestone: This is post number 400 for UKNiners.
Originally posted by thl408:
Rascal said Peyton lined up in the Pistol. I saw it. Peyton did line up in the Pistol formation. He ran what looked like a read option, but like you said, what defense would think that Peyton would actually keep. Any sane OLB/DE should crash down on the RB, and if Peyton decides to actually keep, let him get his 2 yards and a smackdown from a LB.

As to the bolded, Kap has shown he can drop back from under center and play like a pure pocket passer. When he lines up in the Pistol, it just makes the DE have one more thing to think about and disallows that DE to pin his ears back on a pass rush.

My point. One more caveat to think about.
I think every coach in the nfl will use the pistol. coach ault invented it because it makes it harder for linebackers to see the running back. It is one more advantage for the offense. peyton manning running it was no gimmick. its one more tool in the bag.
We have the perfect personnel to keep running the Pistol. We have a monstrous sized OL and a QB who can take the hits if the DE wants to focus solely on Kap.

I think we will continue to use it as a specific game plan like we did with GB. It works well with OLB/DE's who play fast and want to anticipate the play before the snap. It was perfect for Matthews and as much respect as I have for the guy..... he will over pursue and can get easily taken out of a play.

The smaller QB's who want to run this may run into trouble with potential injuries from the hits. I see Cam Newton and Kap being the two who can be successful because of size, speed combo. The Vicks, RGIII, and Wilson are one hit off of a handoff away from getting crushed regularly.
Lets not forget Kaep rushed on a read option less then 10% of the time. Only thing is when he did run it was for huge gains. I really think people are overblowing bow much it was used. Sure there were a couple games where it was used a lot. But that was against teams who just couldnt handle it.
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Originally posted by ghostrider:
Originally posted by UKNiners:
Really? Peyton Manning is not running it. They lined up in the pistol vs us in preseason week 1 as a joke. You really think the best thrower and offensive general of his generation is really going to resort to the read option?

As too whether it lasts, probably not. It will be somewhat succeful this year but phase out just like the wildcat from 5 years ago when Sparano ran it in Miami. And this worries me. Can CK be strictly a passing QB? He has the tools, however, his passing success is a product of playing the run e.g. Read option, to a degree. What happens when that is shutdown? Additionally, will head coaches continue to be willing to put their QBs in harms way? I don't see that lasting either. Give JH credit for running an O to his QBs strengths.

As has already been stated, the Read Option and the Pistol are not the same thing. The Read Option is a play and the Pistol is a formation.

Analogy: Read Option is to Pistol what Draw Play is to Shotgun.

LOL at how many times this has been discussed.

But yes they are different, UH (Hawaii) runs a pistol but with no read-option.
Pistol, sustainable. Read option, not. Unless teams want to replace their QB every 3-4 years.
Originally posted by OldJoe:
Some defensive NFL pundits claim to have an answer to shut it down. Most involve leveling the QB and every turn. The problem with this, if I understand the official interpretation, is if an OLB/DE clobbers the QB after he hands off (Pistol/Option read) AND HE DISCONTIUES the fake (and stands still or back pedals), it will invoke a roughing the QB penalty.

Falcons tried to contain, but didn't hit our QB.
Ravens did. Suggs made a lot of contact on our QB. Some might be penalties this year?

Kap didn't run in pre-season that I can think of, but I believe Daniels did (McCoy too?) and he back pedaled after hand off. I think this means Roman is in tune with this interpretation?

But what is your thoughts on how this unfolds?

Kaep ran a couple times that I remember, but they weren't designed runs, just broken plays.
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[ Edited by OldJoe on Aug 30, 2013 at 2:17 PM ]
The pistol isn't going anyplace it's just a formation
[ Edited by ninersrule4 on Aug 30, 2013 at 2:00 PM ]
I think that the conversation is too much about a series of plays than it is about the anomaly of having four quarterbacks enter the NFL at around the same time, each with an elite set of skills. RG III, Russell Wilson, and CK all have elite arm strength, elite speed (for the qb position), and are all football smart. Cam Newton has some of these ingredients as well. Minus any one of these skills, the read option is completely worthless. Any NFL defense can stop a QB who is great at the read option but has s**te for an arm (see: Tebow, Tim). I do not believe that the read option at the NFL level is sustainable because I suspect that we aren't going to see a lot of these kinds of quarterbacks in the pipeline.

Also, conventional wisdom says that the read option puts the QB in harm's way. The way that the 49ers have implemented it, though, seems to actually protect the quarterback. I have a hard time thinking of any instance where CK received a hard hit as a result of the read option. Much to-do has been made over the way that the Ravens "defended" the read option and that Suggs would be programmed to hit CK regardless of whether he gave or kept the ball. The 49ers had 468 yards of offense, 182 of which were on the ground. And at what expense? Suggs playing grab-ass with CK at the end of every play? If that is "defending the read option offense", I hope that more teams copy that template.

To my first point, though, any innovative offensive coordinator is going to get the "nuclear-grade" material of these quarterbacks and design an offense that is hell for defenses to defend. The read option seems to be just a part of a broader approach the 49ers will be employing that takes advantage of CK's gifts.

I can't wait to see what they have cooked up next.
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