Bad at Scouting/Evaluating WR's?

Originally posted by doc_brown_:
Are Baalke and Co. bad at scouting and evaluating college WR's?

In the 2011 draft, The Niners selected Ronald Johnson in the 6th round, who no longer is in the NFL

In the 2012 draft, The Niners selected A.J. Jenkins in the 1st round. Jenkins is probably the 7th best WR currently on the Niners roster and has looked terrible in games.

Notable WR's taken after Jenkins are:
- Alshon Jeffery
- Ryan Broyles
- Reuben Randle
- T.J. Graham
- Mohamed Sanu
- T.Y. Hilton
- Chris Givens
- Josh Gordon

Baalke and Co. stared these guys in the faces and still decided to pull the trigger on Jenkins. For me, this begs the question; Is Baalke bad at evaluating college WR's? It remains to be seen if Quinton Patton succeeds in the NFL, or if Jenkins can salvage his young career.

The Niners have drafted players with character concerns before, so for me, that is not an excuse for passing on guys like Alshon Jeffery and Josh Gordon.

Tell me what you guys think.

I think you have perfect 20/20 hind sight.

Originally posted by doc_brown_:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by doc_brown_:

Originally posted by English:
Seriously?

A 6th round pick and a youngster just starting his 2nd pre-season. And on that basis you are asking if the team is bad at scouting or evaluating receivers. Do you think that is a fair judgement? Are you aware of the hit rate on 6th round picks?

Guy is still out of the league 2 years removed from being drafted.

I'm highlighting a limited body of work and the results are not desirable. Period!

A ton of 6th round picks are out of the League.

You aren't highlighting a limited body of work so much as drawing conclusions from virtually zero data.

I've decided not to take the blind faith approach that you've taken.

Our WR situation is worrisome and I'm trying to figure out how it got this way.

Baalke drafted the WRs. We must fire Baalke.

Doc, you are a genius.

We are the Niners. We are rich in great Wide Receiver tradition.

True fans of the Niners demand the following receiver line-up:

1) Calvin Johnson
2) A.J. Green
3) Dez Bryant
4) Julio Jones

...and we must have Andre Johnson and Randall Cobb waiting in the wings in case any of the four goes down.

Otherwise, Baalke is not doing his job and must be replaced.

Originally posted by WhiteRice:

Originally posted by SofaKing:
We picked the wrong year to draft a WR in the 1st. Weak class overall, and people knew that going in. I appreciate Baalke aggressively attacking what was a huge weakness for us in 2011, WR depth, but he fudged the pick.

The 2009 class was pretty darn good, and everyone knew it. Crabtree, Harvin, Maclin, Nicks. We need to wait for one of these classes. Funny enough, Heyward-Bey was picked before all of them lol.

That 2009 class was pretty solid. Don't forget, Mike Wallace was in that class, too (3rd round). Hopefully the Niners will be able to find an underappreciated mid-round WR in the near future.


Help us get to The 'Stick!
http://www.gofundme.com/3wkpao

They found him... Patton will deliver.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by mtminer:
I kind of wonder if Tom Gamble pounded the table for Jenkins.

Gamble was under contract and seemed to be one of Baalkes
right hand men, when he was able to leave to a team without
it being a promotion.

We will almost never know who pounds the table for whom.

If Baalke is in charge of the draft, he is responsible for the draft, and he gets credit and blame for the draft.

If we look at it that way, we can simply avoid the murky world of speculation.

Jim got his way with Kap....Trent wanted Dalton if I remember correctly.

Originally posted by jreff22:
Jim got his way with Kap....Trent wanted Dalton if I remember correctly.

That is, if I remember correctly, a fine example of the murky, we should try to avoid.

Originally posted by mtminer:
I kind of wonder if Tom Gamble pounded the table for Jenkins.

Gamble was under contract and seemed to be one of Baalkes
right hand men, when he was able to leave to a team without
it being a promotion.

You should read this article.

Tom Gamble explains why he left the 49ers for the Eagles

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-eagles/Tom-Gamble-explains-why-he-left-the-49ers-for-the-Eagles.html#VXrlzYdgWe6py0ri.99

Baalke let Gamble leave for Philadelphia even though it was right before the draft. Baalke knew what the Eagles mean for Gamble.

Baalke was a stand up guy in this situation.

Patten better show up

He hits on oline and defensive players that's for sure. Has the balls to realize if it's not working with a player he needs to make a move. So hey you can't get an all pro, you made the mistake and to not let your ego get in the way and do what's right for the team and move that player is a good quality to have in a gm..

Recent WR draft choices and position Baalke held with the team.
Also, top WR's for that season (To give you an idea who the team felt comfortable deploying).

Dir. of Player Personnel - 2008-2009
2008: 6th, #8 Josh Morgan (Isaac Bruce, Bryant Johnson, Josh Morgan, Arnaz Battle)
2009: 1st, #10 Michael Crabtree (Josh Morgan, Isaac Bruce, Delanie Walker, Jason Hill)

VP of Player Personnel - 2010
2010: 6th, #37 Kyle Williams (Michael Crabtree, Josh Morgan, Delanie Walker, Ted Ginn Jr.)

GM - 2011-present
2011: 6th, #17 Ronald Johnson (Michael Crabtree, Kyle Williams, Ted Ginn Jr., Josh Morgan, Braylon Edwards)
2012: 1st, #30 A.J. Jenkins (Michael Crabtree, Mario Manningham, Randy Moss, Kyle Williams)
2013: 4th, #31 Quinton Patton (Anquan Boldin, ??????????)

The 49ers have one of the deepest, most talented rosters in the league. Our QB, O/D line, RB's, LB's, TE's and even the secondary respectively rank among the best in the NFL. But for some reason, the FO can't assemble formidable WR's. No wonder 3rd down and red-zone conversion %'s perennially suck.

Acquiring a top free agent would be too expensive, so the answer is through the draft! Crabtree's injury is a crying shame, but behind him the is zero depth, and I call that just plain irresponsible.

Originally posted by doc_brown_:
Recent WR draft choices and position Baalke held with the team.
Also, top WR's for that season (To give you an idea who the team felt comfortable deploying).

Dir. of Player Personnel - 2008-2009
2008: 6th, #8 Josh Morgan (Isaac Bruce, Bryant Johnson, Josh Morgan, Arnaz Battle)
2009: 1st, #10 Michael Crabtree (Josh Morgan, Isaac Bruce, Delanie Walker, Jason Hill)

VP of Player Personnel - 2010
2010: 6th, #37 Kyle Williams (Michael Crabtree, Josh Morgan, Delanie Walker, Ted Ginn Jr.)

GM - 2011-present
2011: 6th, #17 Ronald Johnson (Michael Crabtree, Kyle Williams, Ted Ginn Jr., Josh Morgan, Braylon Edwards)
2012: 1st, #30 A.J. Jenkins (Michael Crabtree, Mario Manningham, Randy Moss, Kyle Williams)
2013: 4th, #31 Quinton Patton (Anquan Boldin, ??????????)

The 49ers have one of the deepest, most talented rosters in the league. Our QB, O/D line, RB's, LB's, TE's and even the secondary respectively rank among the best in the NFL. But for some reason, the FO can't assemble formidable WR's. No wonder 3rd down and red-zone conversion %'s perennially suck.

Acquiring a top free agent would be too expensive, so the answer is through the draft! Crabtree's injury is a crying shame, but behind him the is zero depth, and I call that just plain irresponsible.

i think we'll be ok. we have Crabs and Rio coming back (last years majority starters) Boldin who is a beast, Kyle who is a decent receiver who can do some damage in the slot, a huge intriguing prospect now in baldwin who has some experience, moore who has a little experience and the coaches seem to be impressed with him. collie is a decent vet and the rest are inexperienced guys with potential, including our rookie patton who was a steal where we got him. out of this group we should be able to field a decent receiving corps. especially after crabs and rio come back i expect it to go from a weakness to a strength. crabs, boldin, manningham, williams, baldwin, patton looks like a damn good receiving corps to me.

Originally posted by doc_brown_:
VP of Player Personnel - 2010
2010: 6th, #37 Kyle Williams (Michael Crabtree, Josh Morgan, Delanie Walker, Ted Ginn Jr.)

At the time of the 2010 draft, Baalke was the interim general manager, not the VP of Player Personnel. He was promoted almost immediately prior to the draft.

He was in charge of the draft.

Here is an excerpt from an article.

My experience working with San Francisco 49ers general manager Trent Baalke

My first time meeting Baalke was after the draft back in 2010. He was named as the interim general manager prior to the draft and some wondered how he would handle the responsibilities.

One thing that really impressed me about him was he was very accessible. After that draft in 2010, he invited the local media to join him in a film session Q&A. In the defensive meeting room at team headquarters, Baalke greeted every member of the media. (And he remembers the name of every person he met that day.)

I was still rather new to covering the team and this was something that I really appreciated (and I am sure the other writers did too). What Baalke did was show us college film of every single draft pick the 49ers made. He broke down the film, explaining what he liked about each pick and what he didn't like. He allowed us to interact with him, asking him about his decision to draft a certain player and what he envisioned for them.

http://butattheendoftheday.com/2012/02/10/my-experience-working-with-san-francisco-49ers-general-manager-trent-baalke/

Originally posted by ayetee:

Originally posted by doc_brown_:
Are Baalke and Co. bad at scouting and evaluating college WR's?

In the 2011 draft, The Niners selected Ronald Johnson in the 6th round, who no longer is in the NFL

In the 2012 draft, The Niners selected A.J. Jenkins in the 1st round. Jenkins is probably the 7th best WR currently on the Niners roster and has looked terrible in games.

Notable WR's taken after Jenkins are:
- Alshon Jeffery
- Ryan Broyles
- Reuben Randle
- T.J. Graham
- Mohamed Sanu
- T.Y. Hilton
- Chris Givens
- Josh Gordon

Baalke and Co. stared these guys in the faces and still decided to pull the trigger on Jenkins. For me, this begs the question; Is Baalke bad at evaluating college WR's? It remains to be seen if Quinton Patton succeeds in the NFL, or if Jenkins can salvage his young career.

The Niners have drafted players with character concerns before, so for me, that is not an excuse for passing on guys like Alshon Jeffery and Josh Gordon.

Tell me what you guys think.

I think you have perfect 20/20 hind sight.

Hind sight quite frequently is as bad as just plain old sight.

Baalke has been in charge of four drafts for the team. He has selected four wide receivers.

The OP only speaks of two of the four. Those two happen to be the worst of his four picks.

20/20 hindsight has to be better than that.

Jenkins had a fine career at Illinois...speed, ran good routes, nothing to suggest he couldn't make it in the NFL. Even more so for Rashaun Woods...I saw the kid play a number of games in college and he looked for all the world to be a "can't miss" prospect. Sometimes young guys just can't adjust to the demands of the NFL. I'll bet if you look around the NFL, there are plenty of teams who've missed on WR's. I don't think there's anything wrong with our scouts...just had some bad luck.

Crabtree was scouted pretty good. He's just had a long time of adjustment because of attitude problems and he got hurt. But when he did finally mature he get a lot better. And he lived up to his draft status. It just took a while. And anybody can get hurt. It's unfortunate. But the NFL is a rough game. Nobody wanted him to get hurt or counted on that.

I think drafting a WR is the hardest part, your not drafting the obvious Calvin Johnson, Fitz.. AJ Green.. WR still needs developing but then again .. the WR needs to put in work, A player can look good in College highlights but cant do the same up in the NFL.