There are 124 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Joe Looney?

Originally posted by NCommand:
Truth...mentally and snapping, I think he's looked very good. I was speaking more generally, in that most of the reports about him are so good you'd think he'd be absolutely dominating the C position. And I thought that until I rewatched the OL against the Ravens. So is Kilgore fixed at C? I'm not so sure that's the case. In fact, I'd like to see quite a few snaps from Marcus Martin before this pre season is over for two reasons 1) to push Kilgore and 2) to ensure we have a viable backup should Kilgore go down. The thing that scared me about Kilgore was that he was physically getting blown backwards a lot against the run and in pass protection. He has the smarts and athleticism, but does he have the strength and size to face the big boys like Ngata and Williams inside? If not, Gore and Hyde are going to have to become "bounce" machines.

Based purely on an "eye test," Marcus Martin looks like he should be a lot stronger. The guy is a beast. As far as Kilgore is concerned, the good news is that every team does not have a couple of tree stumps like Ngata and Williams sitting there in the middle.
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Truth...mentally and snapping, I think he's looked very good. I was speaking more generally, in that most of the reports about him are so good you'd think he'd be absolutely dominating the C position. And I thought that until I rewatched the OL against the Ravens. So is Kilgore fixed at C? I'm not so sure that's the case. In fact, I'd like to see quite a few snaps from Marcus Martin before this pre season is over for two reasons 1) to push Kilgore and 2) to ensure we have a viable backup should Kilgore go down. The thing that scared me about Kilgore was that he was physically getting blown backwards a lot against the run and in pass protection. He has the smarts and athleticism, but does he have the strength and size to face the big boys like Ngata and Williams inside? If not, Gore and Hyde are going to have to become "bounce" machines.

Based purely on an "eye test," Marcus Martin looks like he should be a lot stronger. The guy is a beast. As far as Kilgore is concerned, the good news is that every team does not have a couple of tree stumps like Ngata and Williams sitting there in the middle.

Martin seems special to me as well (esp. his size/strength and technique) but obviously he has a long ways to go getting this offense down and all the correct line adjustments. Sadly, that's just going to take quite a bit of time.

And you are so right...those two are not only tree trunks but quick, moving tree trunks. I'd be stoked to have either as our NT!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Martin seems special to me as well (esp. his size/strength and technique) but obviously he has a long ways to go getting this offense down and all the correct line adjustments. Sadly, that's just going to take quite a bit of time.

And you are so right...those two are not only tree trunks but quick, moving tree trunks. I'd be stoked to have either as our NT!

I have to wonder if any of the teams interested in Boone are waving a NT type guy in front of Baalke's face as bait.
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Martin seems special to me as well (esp. his size/strength and technique) but obviously he has a long ways to go getting this offense down and all the correct line adjustments. Sadly, that's just going to take quite a bit of time.

And you are so right...those two are not only tree trunks but quick, moving tree trunks. I'd be stoked to have either as our NT!

I have to wonder if any of the teams interested in Boone are waving a NT type guy in front of Baalke's face as bait.

That's not a bad guess. Baalke is very shrewd and you know he's working THE best deal possible for the team and he's certainly going to get the most for Boone...or this is a ploy to force Boone's hand even more. Either way this is Baalke we're talking about here. We know every single angle is being addressed behind the scenes...hell, he's probably worked out every scenario a year ago.

PS: If we really need, both Sopoaga and Franklin are still available as well. And they could probably nab a fatty 2-gap UDFA NT as well esp. given we only use the NT 40% of the time.
[ Edited by NCommand on Aug 12, 2014 at 10:25 AM ]
So I think it has been decently documented about how some feel Looney had a relatively good night against the Ravens and how others and including MB reviewed Looneys game much differently. Well Barrows made an interesting statement in his latest column which I think shines some light to his prior reasoning.

"De facto right guard Joe Looney had a mixed game against the Ravens on Thursday but seemed to have improved his technique during the three days of practice. He did not stand out, which is good for an interior lineman.Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/08/12/6622679/offense-where-things-stand-in.html#storylink=cpy"
So the bolded points out a common technique for viewers to rate linemen. Which Martin and than Looney both did in the first series of the game. Martin flopped on a pull to his side of the field and Looney got blown up on 3rd and short. But that does not answer the question of why nobody Noticed the most glaring mistake on the second play of the game by Iupati that got Kap planted on his back in under 2 seconds and his repeatedly horride pass protection in the two drives. FYI Barrows second line of support for Looney's play was that we did outstanding running to the left side of the field and did not run to the right.

The problem with the OL stand out approach is that it is highly dependent on the direction, especially for the interior OL. Naturally our eyes pick up things in the fore ground and often filter out things in the perceived background. 49ers were traveling from left to right on the screen putting Looney and Martin in the foreground and hiding Kilgore and Iupati.

It is not to my surprise that most people who rewatched the game reviewing each play for each OL came to a much different opinion than people watching it live and/or reviewing multiple players per play like MB would do. You cannot watch an entire trench battle in one viewing, it really takes 5 viewings to see exactly what happened each play, two and three times really isn't even enough to get a specific judgement on all 5 battles.

Had 49ers been playing from right to left, we would most likely be talking about how Iupati had a bad performance, that he's always been a better run blocker than pass blocker, that his prior injury is still possibly effecting him and how Looney looked solid, and good luck to Boone and his future endeavors.
Originally posted by Shorteous:
So I think it has been decently documented about how some feel Looney had a relatively good night against the Ravens and how others and including MB reviewed Looneys game much differently. Well Barrows made an interesting statement in his latest column which I think shines some light to his prior reasoning.

"De facto right guard Joe Looney had a mixed game against the Ravens on Thursday but seemed to have improved his technique during the three days of practice. He did not stand out, which is good for an interior lineman.Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/08/12/6622679/offense-where-things-stand-in.html#storylink=cpy"
So the bolded points out a common technique for viewers to rate linemen. Which Martin and than Looney both did in the first series of the game. Martin flopped on a pull to his side of the field and Looney got blown up on 3rd and short. But that does not answer the question of why nobody Noticed the most glaring mistake on the second play of the game by Iupati that got Kap planted on his back in under 2 seconds and his repeatedly horride pass protection in the two drives. FYI Barrows second line of support for Looney's play was that we did outstanding running to the left side of the field and did not run to the right.

The problem with the OL stand out approach is that it is highly dependent on the direction, especially for the interior OL. Naturally our eyes pick up things in the fore ground and often filter out things in the perceived background. 49ers were traveling from left to right on the screen putting Looney and Martin in the foreground and hiding Kilgore and Iupati.

It is not to my surprise that most people who rewatched the game reviewing each play for each OL came to a much different opinion than people watching it live and/or reviewing multiple players per play like MB would do. You cannot watch an entire trench battle in one viewing, it really takes 5 viewings to see exactly what happened each play, two and three times really isn't even enough to get a specific judgement on all 5 battles.

Had 49ers been playing from right to left, we would most likely be talking about how Iupati had a bad performance, that he's always been a better run blocker than pass blocker, that his prior injury is still possibly effecting him and how Looney looked solid, and good luck to Boone and his future endeavors.

I did some film review on Martin and Looney and Okoye. Is anyone willing to break down Kilgore and Iupati? Iupati is coming back from a broken leg and Kilgore is CRITICAL to our offense. Iupati is very important given he's our pulling guard (although I'm very encouraged by Looney's pulling ability).
I would but I freshly deleted it from my DVR. Maybe I'll buy nfl preseason rewind and do it.
Originally posted by Shorteous:
I would but I freshly deleted it from my DVR. Maybe I'll buy nfl preseason rewind and do it.

It's OK...that was a great game to assess run blocking and some blitz pickup. Next we'll be able to assess pass protection against Denver's pass rushers.
Nice. Looney talking a little trash in-game. Like that confidence. Staley telling him this is his chance.

http://www.49ers.com/news/article-2/Ian-Williams-Seeks-to-Replace-Glenn-Dorsey-at-Nose-Tackle/516947e1-6345-4609-b0ab-3a134ea4377f
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 3,932
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Truth...mentally and snapping, I think he's looked very good. I was speaking more generally, in that most of the reports about him are so good you'd think he'd be absolutely dominating the C position. And I thought that until I rewatched the OL against the Ravens. So is Kilgore fixed at C? I'm not so sure that's the case. In fact, I'd like to see quite a few snaps from Marcus Martin before this pre season is over for two reasons 1) to push Kilgore and 2) to ensure we have a viable backup should Kilgore go down. The thing that scared me about Kilgore was that he was physically getting blown backwards a lot against the run and in pass protection. He has the smarts and athleticism, but does he have the strength and size to face the big boys like Ngata and Williams inside? If not, Gore and Hyde are going to have to become "bounce" machines.

Based purely on an "eye test," Marcus Martin looks like he should be a lot stronger. The guy is a beast. As far as Kilgore is concerned, the good news is that every team does not have a couple of tree stumps like Ngata and Williams sitting there in the middle.

Martin seems special to me as well (esp. his size/strength and technique) but obviously he has a long ways to go getting this offense down and all the correct line adjustments. Sadly, that's just going to take quite a bit of time.

And you are so right...those two are not only tree trunks but quick, moving tree trunks. I'd be stoked to have either as our NT
!

I just don't think we're that kind of a defense. I just don't see this front office investing high round draft picks on the NT position. Haloti is a first round pick and Williams is a 3rd rounder. Ian and Dial are UDFA and a 5th rounder respectively. We tend to invest high round picks at the linebacker/DE position rather than the DT/NT position.
[ Edited by Giedi on Aug 13, 2014 at 5:34 PM ]
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Truth...mentally and snapping, I think he's looked very good. I was speaking more generally, in that most of the reports about him are so good you'd think he'd be absolutely dominating the C position. And I thought that until I rewatched the OL against the Ravens. So is Kilgore fixed at C? I'm not so sure that's the case. In fact, I'd like to see quite a few snaps from Marcus Martin before this pre season is over for two reasons 1) to push Kilgore and 2) to ensure we have a viable backup should Kilgore go down. The thing that scared me about Kilgore was that he was physically getting blown backwards a lot against the run and in pass protection. He has the smarts and athleticism, but does he have the strength and size to face the big boys like Ngata and Williams inside? If not, Gore and Hyde are going to have to become "bounce" machines.

Based purely on an "eye test," Marcus Martin looks like he should be a lot stronger. The guy is a beast. As far as Kilgore is concerned, the good news is that every team does not have a couple of tree stumps like Ngata and Williams sitting there in the middle.

Martin seems special to me as well (esp. his size/strength and technique) but obviously he has a long ways to go getting this offense down and all the correct line adjustments. Sadly, that's just going to take quite a bit of time.

And you are so right...those two are not only tree trunks but quick, moving tree trunks. I'd be stoked to have either as our NT
!

I just don't think we're that kind of a defense. I just don't see this front office investing high round draft picks on the NT position. Haloti is a first round pick and Williams is a 3rd rounder. Ian and Dial are UDFA and a 5th rounder respectively. We tend to invest high round picks at the linebacker/DE position rather than the DT/NT position.

This is clearly true. That said we don't need a 1st rounder per se but a clogger.
bunch of Ba-Looney
Originally posted by theninermaniac:
bunch of Ba-Looney

Kind of funny. Looney is a goofball (ala Staley) so the term, Looney Toons always pops in my mind.
  • DeUh
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 3,522
I just read a lengthy Joe Looney film study. Everyone interested should take a look.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/8/15/5997421/joe-looney-film-study-49ers-ravens-preseason-game


Thoughts ?
[ Edited by DeUh on Aug 15, 2014 at 11:40 AM ]
Originally posted by DeUh:
I just read a lengthy Joe Looney film study. Everyone interested should take a look.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/8/15/5997421/joe-looney-film-study-49ers-ravens-preseason-game


Thoughts ?

Hell yes! I challenged NN to do some film study b/c their original report was the same MB media dribble that got tossed around as fact...much props to them for man-ing up and doing their own h/w and film study. And guess what? We came to the exact same conclusions!

Summary:

After looking at all the plays Joe Looney had in the game, I wouldn't be overly concerned with him starting for us. In my mind he's an able pass protector who's probably a net neutral in run blocking. He did have a fairly egregious play on the last play of the first drive on 3rd and 1 on the Ravens six yard line. He simply didn't get his pad level low enough against NT Brandon Williams and lost all leverage allowing Williams to throw him aside and get into the backfield for the tackle. But he did have some good plays like standing-up Haloti Ngata a few times in pass protection. He does lack some situational awareness that I think comes down to lack of real game experience. All in all I think its been highly exaggerated that Joe Looney had a bad game, he didn't. He didn't shine in his chance to take a starting job, but he also didn't disappoint.

I know this is supposed to be a study of Joe Looney, but other Offensive Linemen stood out, and not in a good way. The players around Looney, Daniel Kilgore starting at Center and Jonathan Martin starting at Right Tackle and moving to Left, had bad to terrible games. Kilgore just isn't strong enough to hold up for long in pass protection. He was constantly being pushed around by the Ravens starting NT Brandon Williams and had a play or two where Ngata just made an absolute rag doll of him. And Jonathan Martin couldn't hold a block to save his life. The defenders he was supposed to block almost always seemed to be involved in the play somehow. I would hope that rookie Marcus Martin can get up to speed on the offense fast enough to supplant Kilgore as soon as possible. I'd also be worried if Martin were to make the roster as the primary swing-tackle.

IMHO, the best to worst re: the OL was as followed: Staley - Looney/Martin/Seymour - Iupati - Kilgore (both were poor).

I think it's important to note when assessing individual play, the players who started next to them. In this case, it was Kilgore and Martin for the most part. And to put that into perspective, Martin was by far the better player (as was Seymour later on at RT).