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2013 TRAINING CAMP THREAD

Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
All we need is Boldin and Vernon.

Kap will make all these other scrubs look good and put up productive numbers, you just watch and see.

By looking good you mean not being able to catch when we have 0 contact?

make your jokes...you'll see....

He can't make people catch the ball, run good routes, or get open.

Two of the three a good QB can overcome.
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
All we need is Boldin and Vernon.

Kap will make all these other scrubs look good and put up productive numbers, you just watch and see.

By looking good you mean not being able to catch when we have 0 contact?

make your jokes...you'll see....

He can't make people catch the ball, run good routes, or get open.

Davis, Boldin, Gore, Hunter, James can all do those. The rest will adapt.
Again, Kaepernick played his best ball in the postseason with Randy Moss and Ted Ginn as his 2nd and 3rd WRs. Obviously it would be nice for someone to emerge, but a great QB could overcome this. Vernon Davis is looking great and Boldin is catching everything thus far. And lets not forget, we are still a run first team.
I don't know whether anyone has already watched this clip from 49ers.com yet, but there is one thing I noticed and am very encouraged about. That is on that deep throw from Kap, you can clearly see he was really trying to arc the ball properly. I have commented about this numerous times before, this is an area of his game I have always felt he needs improving on. Last season, even with his deep passes, they always seem to lack a bit of air under the ball and what ended up happening was with the lower trajectory the ball tended to land going away from the body of the receiver due to the shallower angle of entry. Also, I feel if Kap can learn to arc the ball, this will help his touch passes which is especially important in red zone plays when you need to throw great fades with a lot of finnesse. Way to go Kap !!

http://www.49ers.com/media-gallery/videos/Camp-In-Motion-In-The-Groove/03e6819b-c270-4f48-ac7b-d22ff71828fa
Seems like OLB will be Aldon, Ahmad, Parys, Corey, Cam and/or Skuta. ILB seems like Fleming will either get cut because he can't stay healthy or go to PUP/IR and try it again next year. I am fine with Willis, Bowman, Wilhoite and Moody. Wilhoite and Moody should both do well on ST but not sure how they will do at ILB if they had to play but let's hope they don't. If they did hopefully having Bowman/Willis around them would mask them a bit.

As for the whole WR situation I look it as the entire offense will have to pick it up for Crabtree not just the WR's. Kaepernick should be better, Gore should do his thing, James should be better and can split out if we want, Hunter is hopefully back at 100%. Mcdonald should be able to contribute from day 1. If he can limit his drops he can be one of the top #2 TE's in the league. Celek should be a much bigger receiving threat than last year. Vernon will do his thing and will have better chemistry with Kap this year. Then WR wise Boldin should be able to cover most of Crabtree's production last year. Then expect a lot of mixing of WR's as Jenkins, Williams, Lockette, Patton and maybe even Moore/Osgood (If Manningham goes to PUP) will get playing time. Maybe we won't have a great #2 or 3 but between all those guys they should be able to contribute something and equal to a #2/3's production. I think next year we will have to pick another WR high depending on if Williams/Manningham are back. Neither have been too reliable so far. Also depends on what Jenkins, Lockette and Patton do. Expect Boldin to be back if he does well.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Jul 29, 2013 at 1:49 AM ]
Two broken fingers for Patton, ouch.
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Seems like OLB will be Aldon, Ahmad, Parys, Corey, Cam and/or Skuta. ILB seems like Fleming will either get cut because he can't stay healthy or go to PUP/IR and try it again next year. I am fine with Willis, Bowman, Wilhoite and Moody. Wilhoite and Moody should both do well on ST but not sure how they will do at ILB if they had to play but let's hope they don't. If they did hopefully having Bowman/Willis around them would mask them a bit.

As for the whole WR situation I look it as the entire offense will have to pick it up for Crabtree not just the WR's. Kaepernick should be better, Gore should do his thing, James should be better and can split out if we want, Hunter is hopefully back at 100%. Mcdonald should be able to contribute from day 1. If he can limit his drops he can be one of the top #2 TE's in the league. Celek should be a much bigger receiving threat than last year. Vernon will do his thing and will have better chemistry with Kap this year. Then WR wise Boldin should be able to cover most of Crabtree's production last year. Then expect a lot of mixing of WR's as Jenkins, Williams, Lockette, Patton and maybe even Moore/Osgood (If Manningham goes to PUP) will get playing time. Maybe we won't have a great #2 or 3 but between all those guys they should be able to contribute something and equal to a #2/3's production. I think next year we will have to pick another WR high depending on if Williams/Manningham are back. Neither have been too reliable so far. Also depends on what Jenkins, Lockette and Patton do. Expect Boldin to be back if he does well.


Boldin will do well, but unfortunately he won't be back. He's a one-year rental. The reason we can afford him this year is because we don't have a starting quarterback's salary hitting our cap this year. However, it's only for this one year we can enjoy such a luxury.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Boldin will do well, but unfortunately he won't be back. He's a one-year rental. The reason we can afford him this year is because we don't have a starting quarterback's salary hitting our cap this year. However, it's only for this one year we can enjoy such a luxury.

Possibly but I would think if he does well and the team does well he wouldn't want to leave and go somewhere else for one last year. Might have to except 1-2 million less but if I'm him do I really want to get uprooted again with as little as one year left in my career? That being said if he does well maybe someone like the Ravens, Broncos or Patriots would come calling and could offer more. Could even see a bad team sign him to a higher priced contract than the good teams would offer for 2-3 years but not sure Boldin would do that. Just my opinion but Dawson, Boldin and possibly Asomugha get re-signed to 1-2 year deals if they do well. Not saying it's a lock Boldin is back but IMO I expect him to come back unless things don't go well and the Ravens say hey come back. As for our cap Iupati should be resigned some time this season so that's less cap to work with but expect Rogers to have to take a big cut or be released so that's some money there. Brown could be gone as well and we have a lot of FA's that are probably gone. Might have to choose between Boldin, Williams and Manningham. Don't see us keeping both Manningham and Williams. Probably won't offer those guys too much; depending on how they do I'd be fine if they were both gone. Not sure either can stay healthy and be consistent. Williams needs to break out or I wouldn't consider him. Guy only has 460 yards and like 4 TDs in 3 years; guess how he does on returns will be a factor as well. Sorry for rambling a bit but last point is I'm sure the vets would rework their deals to get Boldin back and extend Aldon and Kap.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Jul 29, 2013 at 2:37 AM ]
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Possibly but I would think if he does well and the team does well he wouldn't want to leave and go somewhere else for one last year. Might have to except 1-2 million less but if I'm him do I really want to get uprooted again with as little as one year left in my career? That being said if he does well maybe someone like the Ravens, Broncos or Patriots would come calling and could offer more. Could even see a bad team sign him to a higher priced contract than the good teams would offer for 2-3 years but not sure Boldin would do that. Just my opinion but Dawson, Boldin and possibly Asomugha get re-signed to 1-2 year deals if they do well. Not saying it's a lock Boldin is back but IMO I expect him to come back unless things don't go well and the Ravens say hey come back. As for our cap Iupati should be resigned some time this season so that's less cap to work with but expect Rogers to have to take a big cut or be released so that's some money there. Brown could be gone as well and we have a lot of FA's that are probably gone. Might have to choose between Boldin, Williams and Manningham. Don't see us keeping both Manningham and Williams. Probably won't offer those guys too much; depending on how they do I'd be fine if they were both gone. Not sure either can stay healthy and be consistent. Williams needs to break out or I wouldn't consider him. Guy only has 460 yards and like 4 TDs in 3 years; guess how he does on returns will be a factor as well. Sorry for rambling a bit but last point is I'm sure the vets would rework their deals to get Boldin back and extend Aldon and Kap.


Boldin said, paraphrasing, "Once a Raven, always a Raven. If I can't work out a deal with the Ravens, then I'll retire. I can't imagine playing anywhere else." So what happened? We offered him a little more money and now he's playing for us. I think he'll happily uproot himself to the highest bidder until he retires.

As for restructuring veterans deals.
I think its a bad idea. That is how you get into salary cap Hell. "Restructure" means that you pay more money later on, or you guarantee more money, or something along those lines. You win in the short term, but lose in the long run.
We are just fine. All we have to do is draft well and sign our core guys.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,732
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Rascal:
When I was criticizing Jenkins, most of my posts were directed to like-minded posters.

Can you explain this remark? I just do not understand it.
.
I know that we disagree about the amount of time that Jenkins should be given, but as you say everyone is entitled to his own opinion.


That is exactly what I was saying. I never start out with the intention of arguing the topic to death especially after that episode with the "franchise WR" thread. In the case of this Jenkins topic, I mainly just talk to the ones who share my opinion although I did get into a discussion with afew who don't agree with my view, but let's face it once it gets heated there is no point. So, like I said, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion, is best to leave it at that, you can always respectfully agree to disagree.

Ok. That makes sense, although I would suggest that when we post in a public forum, we are in fact speaking to everyone in the forum.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Possibly but I would think if he does well and the team does well he wouldn't want to leave and go somewhere else for one last year. Might have to except 1-2 million less but if I'm him do I really want to get uprooted again with as little as one year left in my career? That being said if he does well maybe someone like the Ravens, Broncos or Patriots would come calling and could offer more. Could even see a bad team sign him to a higher priced contract than the good teams would offer for 2-3 years but not sure Boldin would do that. Just my opinion but Dawson, Boldin and possibly Asomugha get re-signed to 1-2 year deals if they do well. Not saying it's a lock Boldin is back but IMO I expect him to come back unless things don't go well and the Ravens say hey come back. As for our cap Iupati should be resigned some time this season so that's less cap to work with but expect Rogers to have to take a big cut or be released so that's some money there. Brown could be gone as well and we have a lot of FA's that are probably gone. Might have to choose between Boldin, Williams and Manningham. Don't see us keeping both Manningham and Williams. Probably won't offer those guys too much; depending on how they do I'd be fine if they were both gone. Not sure either can stay healthy and be consistent. Williams needs to break out or I wouldn't consider him. Guy only has 460 yards and like 4 TDs in 3 years; guess how he does on returns will be a factor as well. Sorry for rambling a bit but last point is I'm sure the vets would rework their deals to get Boldin back and extend Aldon and Kap.


Boldin said, paraphrasing, "Once a Raven, always a Raven. If I can't work out a deal with the Ravens, then I'll retire. I can't imagine playing anywhere else." So what happened? We offered him a little more money and now he's playing for us. I think he'll happily uproot himself to the highest bidder until he retires.

As for restructuring veterans deals.
I think its a bad idea. That is how you get into salary cap Hell. "Restructure" means that you pay more money later on, or you guarantee more money, or something along those lines. You win in the short term, but lose in the long run.
We are just fine. All we have to do is draft well and sign our core guys.

We didnt offer him more money. we traded for him, and as far as i know he is playing on the same salary the ravens would have had to pay him. Boldin is a class act and not the type of guy that says things he doesnt mean. He came right in and started working hard because he knew we were the team that traded for and wanted his services. He strikes me as the type of guy that is extremely loyal to whatever team he is currently on and wants to and has the ability to use the talent he offers.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Rascal:
When I was criticizing Jenkins, most of my posts were directed to like-minded posters.

Can you explain this remark? I just do not understand it.
.
I know that we disagree about the amount of time that Jenkins should be given, but as you say everyone is entitled to his own opinion.


That is exactly what I was saying. I never start out with the intention of arguing the topic to death especially after that episode with the "franchise WR" thread. In the case of this Jenkins topic, I mainly just talk to the ones who share my opinion although I did get into a discussion with afew who don't agree with my view, but let's face it once it gets heated there is no point. So, like I said, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion, is best to leave it at that, you can always respectfully agree to disagree.

Ok. That makes sense, although I would suggest that when we post in a public forum, we are in fact speaking to everyone in the forum.


Of course. Is very simple, if you post A and I don't agree with you, I can just post B as opposed to keep quoting and replying to your posts to a long drawn out argument and vice versa.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Possibly but I would think if he does well and the team does well he wouldn't want to leave and go somewhere else for one last year. Might have to except 1-2 million less but if I'm him do I really want to get uprooted again with as little as one year left in my career? That being said if he does well maybe someone like the Ravens, Broncos or Patriots would come calling and could offer more. Could even see a bad team sign him to a higher priced contract than the good teams would offer for 2-3 years but not sure Boldin would do that. Just my opinion but Dawson, Boldin and possibly Asomugha get re-signed to 1-2 year deals if they do well. Not saying it's a lock Boldin is back but IMO I expect him to come back unless things don't go well and the Ravens say hey come back. As for our cap Iupati should be resigned some time this season so that's less cap to work with but expect Rogers to have to take a big cut or be released so that's some money there. Brown could be gone as well and we have a lot of FA's that are probably gone. Might have to choose between Boldin, Williams and Manningham. Don't see us keeping both Manningham and Williams. Probably won't offer those guys too much; depending on how they do I'd be fine if they were both gone. Not sure either can stay healthy and be consistent. Williams needs to break out or I wouldn't consider him. Guy only has 460 yards and like 4 TDs in 3 years; guess how he does on returns will be a factor as well. Sorry for rambling a bit but last point is I'm sure the vets would rework their deals to get Boldin back and extend Aldon and Kap.


Boldin said, paraphrasing, "Once a Raven, always a Raven. If I can't work out a deal with the Ravens, then I'll retire. I can't imagine playing anywhere else." So what happened? We offered him a little more money and now he's playing for us. I think he'll happily uproot himself to the highest bidder until he retires.

As for restructuring veterans deals.
I think its a bad idea. That is how you get into salary cap Hell. "Restructure" means that you pay more money later on, or you guarantee more money, or something along those lines. You win in the short term, but lose in the long run.
We are just fine. All we have to do is draft well and sign our core guys.

We didnt offer him more money. we traded for him, and as far as i know he is playing on the same salary the ravens would have had to pay him. Boldin is a class act and not the type of guy that says things he doesnt mean. He came right in and started working hard because he knew we were the team that traded for and wanted his services. He strikes me as the type of guy that is extremely loyal to whatever team he is currently on and wants to and has the ability to use the talent he offers.


Sure we "traded" for him. We basically stole him. I think it's because one brother offered the other a gift for losing the Super Bowl.
Either way, Boldin did say he would "retire if he could not play for the Ravens". Just because we traded for him doesn't mean he is not allowed to retire.
The point is, unless we decide to not extend Kap and/or Aldon next year (which would be an unmitigated long term disaster), Boldin's one year rental will be up, and he'll move on to the next team that really wants him.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Boldin said, paraphrasing, "Once a Raven, always a Raven. If I can't work out a deal with the Ravens, then I'll retire. I can't imagine playing anywhere else." So what happened? We offered him a little more money and now he's playing for us. I think he'll happily uproot himself to the highest bidder until he retires.

As for restructuring veterans deals.
I think its a bad idea. That is how you get into salary cap Hell. "Restructure" means that you pay more money later on, or you guarantee more money, or something along those lines. You win in the short term, but lose in the long run.
We are just fine. All we have to do is draft well and sign our core guys.

Well doesn't have to necessarily be a re-structure. I'm sure some guys would take a slight cut to make sure we get Iupati, Kap, Aldon extended and possibly bring back Boldin. I guess it depends on how the rest of the WR's do. If nobody steps up then we are more likely to re-sign Boldin. I think if he's going to play at this point in his career it's for a ring each year. If Ravens asked him back there is a chance he'd go back. If Broncos or Patriots wanted to sign him for a little more than we would offer it's a possibility. I'm not sure he wants to be on a bad team for more money though. He spent many bad years with the Cardinals so doubt he wants to go back to that. You could be right we could move on if others step up but I think we try to bring him back and if he is willing to give us a decent deal he will be back but that's just my opinion. Anyways, I have said in the past though going into that new stadium I expect a lot of new faces. You're right will have to continue to draft well because we could let a lot of our FA's go especially if they want too much. Expect a lot of younger guys... Haralson, Goodwin, Whitner and Rogers could all be gone. Who knows maybe Jennings gets beat out next year to save money. Boldin and Asomugha will be FA's and with those guys i just mentioned thats most of the 30+ year old guys on the team.

Side note: here are our FA's after this year: Could be saving money for 2014 FA and to get Iupati, Kap, Aldon, Culliver, Bruce Miller, possibly Hunter, etc signed.

Goodwin, Whitner, Brown, Manningham, Boldin, Dawson, Asomugha, McCoy, Brock, Haralson, Dixon, Williams, McBath, Moore, Dobbs, Cox, Hall, Tolzien,Tukuafu Wilhoite, Cam Johnson, Osgood, Morrah

Some of those guys might not make the squad this year so they won't be a concert. Some of those guys will be cheap if we want them back. I expect a good chunk of those guys to be gone. I don't expect a lot of outside signings as we save up. Probably less than this year. If Dawson, Asomugha, Boldin do well I could see them back for another 1-2 years if reasonable. I think we re-sign McCoy over Tolzien, doubt we do both. Daniels could become 3rd string guy. Brown depends on if he is willing to give us a good price and a reasonable amount of years or not. If he wants to get paid he's gone. As I already said doubt Manningham and Williams are both back. Probably 1 or none. Other than that nobody really worries me too much about resigning.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Jul 29, 2013 at 3:23 AM ]
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Boldin will do well, but unfortunately he won't be back. He's a one-year rental. The reason we can afford him this year is because we don't have a starting quarterback's salary hitting our cap this year. However, it's only for this one year we can enjoy such a luxury.


Well, I would say it will depend on a couple of factors such as :

  • Will we be able to re-sign Crab ?
  • How much will Anquan demand for an extension ? He will be 33 next year and almost 34 by the time next season starts. Randy Moss was 35 when we signed him and we gave him $2 mil. Perhaps he might give us a discount ? He did say he hopes he can play longer here than just this year, plus 9ers is a good team not to mention he has kids and is not all that fun to have to move again. Could $4 mil be a doable number ? I don't know.
[ Edited by Rascal on Jul 29, 2013 at 3:18 AM ]