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Whitner unhappy?

  • LVJay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 5,263
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Both Goldson and Whitner are highly overrated. And Goldson was overpaid big time. Couldn't afford to keep him.

Anyone who says cap is a problem, should think again. Rogers will be asked to take a pay cut, or be cut. Whatever money is left over is carried over for 2014. And we will lose Brown, he will want a good amount, and it's a giant mistake to pay anymore than $5M a yr. But he will get a 4-5 yr deal worth $8M a yr, too much for us. Rather draft 2 CBs high.

Whitner is gone, Goodwin and Haralson also after 2013, maybe sooner. Neither of the last 2 are locks.

Only guy I see back is Boldin. We need money for Kap, Aldon, Iupati and possibly Crabs.

Also I hope if all goes well, we bring back Manningham and K.Williams, if he turns out good on returns, he needs to show more than a handful of returns to be experienced to me.

^^^
Originally posted by ghostrider:
IMO, Whitner was the reason we beat the Saint's in the 2011 playoffs. The Saints were driving and his game changing hit (and subsequent turnover) completely 180'd the game in our favor... and the Saints never recovered. If this play doesn't happen, I don't think we win this game.


His lack of coverage in the Super Bowl bent is over, though. I'm sorry, but giving up several TDs in a Super Bowl loss is far bigger than a good play in a playoff game when we ended up losing the next week anyway.
Originally posted by Joecool:
If our scheme rely's on discipline, then does that mean we don't need the most athletic player? Whitner's role in this offense is not very difficult to replace. On the other hand, Goldson's talent was difficult to replace which is why we traded down in the draft to get the player who can replace him. That talent isn't normally available. The biggest question to answer is, "What is the strength of this defense?", and you will tell yourself that it is stopping the run. Tackling is Whitner's strength which is not what we need from a safety. What is the weakness of this team? The key position on defense to upgrade now is Whitner. This staff has thought a couple of years ahead since Baalke has been here and I am sure they have already thought about Whitner's replacement.

Not sure what I said that made you believe that Whiter is not replaceable. I never said he wasn't replaceable, but for the most part he is very disciplined. Rarely you will see him involved in a blown coverage, and I FULLY realize he sucks in isolated coverage. Hence, I stated that twice but tackling is something he should be GREAT at. No excuse for him missing 14 tackles last year and he will need to clean that up next season.
He's a likeable guy like Carlos Rogers. Very knowledgeable about the game, fun to listen to their interviews/press conferences. Good team guys and leaders and you hate to get rid of guys like that who want to be here but we will probably have to this year or after next. We have to do what's best for the team. I agree with AB in that 2014 going into the new stadium I expect a lot of new faces. A lot of new young faces. Goodwin, Whitner, Haralson and Rogers are all possibly gone. I think we choose between Manningham and Williams. Williams has been decent for a 6th rounder but he needs to break out and start getting TD's. Manningham is a better WR but we need someone we can count on. I think we choose between McCoy and Tolzien after this year since both are FA's and I think McCoy will be the one. Boldin I think has the best chance of coming back on a 1 year deal. Dawson, Asomugha have a chance as well. Brock, Cox, Dixon, McBath, Tukuafu or Dobbs I could all see being gone as well because we need to save money up for the Iupati, Aldon and Kaepernick (possibly Crabtree). Brown is a toss up at this point, if he wants to give a discount to stay with us and win could be back. If he wants to get paid he will be gone.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Jul 19, 2013 at 7:29 PM ]
Originally posted by CullyInTheHouse:
Next year we could have major turmoil in our secondary. Whitner was VERY solid in 2011, but slipped a bit last year. He obviously struggles in the red zone when he is matched up with opposing TEs. As for our CB situation, Brown could be on the way out and we could be rolling with Culliver and a rookie draft pick. Who takes the SS spot though? Going to be interesting but taking the young route may not be all that bad. Well, until three or four years when you have to pay them LOL.

No, it's just that the pass rush was better in 2011 to cover up for his weaknesses. He isn't, nor will he ever be very good in coverage, simple as that. In a passing league, that can be fatal. For all the people jumping all over his jock, there is no 49ers defensive back that got picked on more than Whitner. No defensive back that gave up more touchdowns either. This isn't really a stunning revelation, that was the book on him coming out of Buffalo, great team guy, strong leader, good tackler, flat out lousy in coverage. Its why he ended up getting a minimal deal compared to some of the bigger deals other safeties have received in recent years.

Teams were flat out looking in his direction every single time they had a chance in the redzone. He got lit up last year, point blank, there's no need to deny it, the issue is whether or not the 49ers could have found anything better in free agency, especially someone who had familiarity with the system. Whitner certainly has the intelligence and football sense, but his poor coverage abilities will make this his final season as a 49er.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jul 19, 2013 at 7:52 PM ]
Originally posted by LVJay:
^^^

Rogers can be cut after the season with very minimal dead money I believe.
Originally posted by Joecool:
If our scheme rely's on discipline, then does that mean we don't need the most athletic player? Whitner's role in this offense is not very difficult to replace. On the other hand, Goldson's talent was difficult to replace which is why we traded down in the draft to get the player who can replace him. That talent isn't normally available. The biggest question to answer is, "What is the strength of this defense?", and you will tell yourself that it is stopping the run. Tackling is Whitner's strength which is not what we need from a safety. What is the weakness of this team? The key position on defense to upgrade now is Whitner. This staff has thought a couple of years ahead since Baalke has been here and I am sure they have already thought about Whitner's replacement.


This. I looked at strong safety as the main spot of weakness in the secondary. Culliver(at least during the season) and Brown were very solid at corner, Goldson did well at free safety, Whitner was pretty much the guy everyone went after, game after game.
Oh my, I have NO idea where in my original post made people think Whitner wasn't replaceable. I NEVER said that, but just he was disciplined and was one of the big reasons we didn't allow many big plays. Obviously he struggles in space and last year was no different. Overall, our pass defense was improved even though his play dropped as well as Rogers'.
Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. He shouldn't be here THIS year! 14 TD's buddy including responsibility for the first 3 in the Superbowl.

Love the dude but he absolutely BLOWS in coverage esp. in the RZ and sadly, teams will continue to isolate him.

Absolutely agree!!
Originally posted by Gore_21:
He's a likeable guy like Carlos Rogers. Very knowledgeable about the game, fun to listen to their interviews/press conferences. Good team guys and leaders and you hate to get rid of guys like that who want to be here but we will probably have to this year or after next. We have to do what's best for the team. I agree with AB in that 2014 going into the new stadium I expect a lot of new faces. A lot of new young faces. Goodwin, Whitner, Haralson and Rogers are all possibly gone. I think we choose between Manningham and Williams. Williams has been decent for a 6th rounder but he needs to break out and start getting TD's. Manningham is a better WR but we need someone we can count on. I think we choose between McCoy and Tolzien after this year since both are FA's and I think McCoy will be the one. Boldin I think has the best chance of coming back on a 1 year deal. Dawson, Asomugha have a chance as well. Brock, Cox, Dixon, McBath, Tukuafu or Dobbs I could all see being gone as well because we need to save money up for the Iupati, Aldon and Kaepernick (possibly Crabtree). Brown is a toss up at this point, if he wants to give a discount to stay with us and win could be back. If he wants to get paid he will be gone.

Forgot McCoy and Dawson, both stay if they work out. The rest are replaceable.

I went deeper in the cap thread, to sum things up, we could realistically have $20M to use in 2014, and that would be devoted to retaining Boldin, McCoy, Dawson, Manningham/Williams, and draft, plus extensions for Cully, Kap, Aldon, Iupati and Crabs.
Originally posted by Disp:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
yeah and the contract that landry signed tells me he is a bit more than a "WARM BODY" . If none of these guys would be a noticeable upgrade over whitner than maybe whitner is better than you guys give him credit for.

I think landry is a hell of a player, he has much to improve on but that guy is a machine that rivals just about anyone in the league in athleticism.

Well you don't agree with PFF's ratings, but I'll post em anyway. I don't watch enough Bills, Cardinals, Jets, etc. games to get a good enough judgment based on what I watch, so I have to rely more on articles and PFF/Football Outsiders to get a better understanding. George Wilson was rated well and Moore was pretty good as well, but like said, Moore was never really a free agent. Landry has always been known as an athletic freak, but that doesn't make him a consistent or particularly good player. So here are the remaining free agent players you mentioned as Whitner replacements. This is their grade for SS/FS's last year.


excuse me for not thinking too much about what pff has to say on the matter but they do have woodson ranked about 30 spots higher than landry who signed a multi year contract worth around 6 mil a year compared to woodson's 1 year 1.8 mil dollar contract.. A lot of different teams showed more interest in landry than woodson and landry was picked up waaay earlier than woodson. I tend to think those teams know more than pff.

Again we had 11 draft picks to find a prospect safety to groom in a draft loaded with safety talent and what did we do? We only took reid. Yeah he could play SS in the future but I'll wait until I see it first. You could think he is the weak link all you want but there were options out there to imrpove if harbalke felt the need to but they didn't. Instead we got craig dahl and that vatrone character.
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
excuse me for not thinking too much about what pff has to say on the matter but they do have woodson ranked about 30 spots higher than landry who signed a multi year contract worth around 6 mil a year compared to woodson's 1 year 1.8 mil dollar contract.. A lot of different teams showed more interest in landry than woodson and landry was picked up waaay earlier than woodson. I tend to think those teams know more than pff.

Again we had 11 draft picks to find a prospect safety to groom in a draft loaded with safety talent and what did we do? We only took reid. Yeah he could play SS in the future but I'll wait until I see it first. You could think he is the weak link all you want but there were options out there to imrpove if harbalke felt the need to but they didn't. Instead we got craig dahl and that vatrone character.

Woodson got a tiny contract late because of age, Landry got a big contract because of potential (and because its the Jets).
You could certainly make a case for Reed, but he chose the Texans. What safeties out there are people sure of would have been worth multiple year deals when we already expect a rook to start at the other position?

What makes a heap of sense is to let Whitner step up in his contract year and season the rook. Then next year replace him if he gave up average production. The last years of deals is generally when you get recouped for what you had to give up at the beginning of deals.

As someone said, we cant fit 11 All Pros on defense every yr and have enough cap space to take care of offensive needs. There's no luxury tax thing like the NBA where we can go over the cap as we so choose.
Thanks for the PFF post Drinkamiller. The one name that just roars out off the page? Charles Woodson. question is when will he lower his pricetag to make himself attractive to 9ers...and a shot at the SB ring? Are trent and jim really waiting him out on his salary? If not, they saw something they didn't like, kinda hard to believe, which makes me think woodson ends up here before season starts. We'll see. Also I want to see all our talent slug it out for the positions.Don't know who it will be but someone is going to make a move on Whitner, and with all the guys our F.O has worked out, I can't believe we will not improve on whitner. But one never knows...
Each year is different from the previous one. Goldson was gone as soon as the SB was over. Do you want to start a season with two new safeties? Whitner is most likely gone next year. Managing the Cap has become as important as coaching a team.