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Joe Montana is overrated?

Originally posted by defenderDX:
"Joe Montana -- QB, 1979-1992Before you break something important, listen. Montana was a very good quarterback. I'll even allow him as a GREAT quarterback. But he is NOT the best quarterback of all time. You could argue he's not even the best quarterback in 49ers history. He had a supporting cast that included Jerry Rice, Brent Jones, Roger Craig and coach Bill Walsh. Think Dan Marino, Warren Moon or Jim Kelly couldn't have won a couple of titles with that group? Even after connecting with Dwight Clark on "The Catch", it took a game-saving tackle by Eric Wright to prevent the Cowboysfrom going to the Super Bowl. Oh, and about the whole "might not be the best QB in 49ers history" ... Steve Young has a better completion percentage, passer rating, 3,500-plus rushing yards and 37 rushing touchdowns.

-- by Dylan Milner and Marcas Grant
"

So ignorant. Does he realize the 49ers won 2 world championships WITHOUT Rice, Jones, or Taylor and won a SB without Craig? People talk about Tom Brady with Wes Welker. Montana won with Dwight Clark. Just let that sink in for a minute..... Clark wouldn't start on Marino's, Moon's or Kelly's squads. Duper and Clayton, Haywood Jeffries and Ernest Givens, James Lofton and Andre Reed. If you compare just physical talent top to bottom, the squads those QBs played on SHOULD beat the World Champion '81 team and on paper should give the 84 team a run for its money.

Should.


That's why Montana (with Walsh) is never, ever underrated.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
"Joe Montana -- QB, 1979-1992Before you break something important, listen. Montana was a very good quarterback. I'll even allow him as a GREAT quarterback. But he is NOT the best quarterback of all time. You could argue he's not even the best quarterback in 49ers history. He had a supporting cast that included Jerry Rice, Brent Jones, Roger Craig and coach Bill Walsh. Think Dan Marino, Warren Moon or Jim Kelly couldn't have won a couple of titles with that group? Even after connecting with Dwight Clark on "The Catch", it took a game-saving tackle by Eric Wright to prevent the Cowboysfrom going to the Super Bowl. Oh, and about the whole "might not be the best QB in 49ers history" ... Steve Young has a better completion percentage, passer rating, 3,500-plus rushing yards and 37 rushing touchdowns.

-- by Dylan Milner and Marcas Grant
"

  • dwett
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 626
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
"Joe Montana -- QB, 1979-1992Before you break something important, listen. Montana was a very good quarterback. I'll even allow him as a GREAT quarterback. But he is NOT the best quarterback of all time. You could argue he's not even the best quarterback in 49ers history. He had a supporting cast that included Jerry Rice, Brent Jones, Roger Craig and coach Bill Walsh. Think Dan Marino, Warren Moon or Jim Kelly couldn't have won a couple of titles with that group? Even after connecting with Dwight Clark on "The Catch", it took a game-saving tackle by Eric Wright to prevent the Cowboysfrom going to the Super Bowl. Oh, and about the whole "might not be the best QB in 49ers history" ... Steve Young has a better completion percentage, passer rating, 3,500-plus rushing yards and 37 rushing touchdowns.

-- by Dylan Milner and Marcas Grant
"

I don't like the stats argument because they have been inflated over time. Middle of the road QB's are putting up stats similar to Young these days. It comes down to winning and clutch performance. Montana was the greatest winner and clutch performer in NFL history. It's not even close. The fact he had talent around him cannot be used against him. It was his excellence that allowed that talent to grow around him.
That and also other than Walsh Montana won 2 SB without Rice or Jones. Also no one considers the idea that Montana made the playmakers great by getting them the ball in great situations. I find it so funny that Brady gets so much credit for it but Montana never does.
  • dwett
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 626
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
"Joe Montana -- QB, 1979-1992Before you break something important, listen. Montana was a very good quarterback. I'll even allow him as a GREAT quarterback. But he is NOT the best quarterback of all time. You could argue he's not even the best quarterback in 49ers history. He had a supporting cast that included Jerry Rice, Brent Jones, Roger Craig and coach Bill Walsh. Think Dan Marino, Warren Moon or Jim Kelly couldn't have won a couple of titles with that group? Even after connecting with Dwight Clark on "The Catch", it took a game-saving tackle by Eric Wright to prevent the Cowboysfrom going to the Super Bowl. Oh, and about the whole "might not be the best QB in 49ers history" ... Steve Young has a better completion percentage, passer rating, 3,500-plus rushing yards and 37 rushing touchdowns.

-- by Dylan Milner and Marcas Grant
"

So ignorant. Does he realize the 49ers won 2 world championships WITHOUT Rice, Jones, or Taylor and won a SB without Craig? People talk about Tom Brady with Wes Welker. Montana won with Dwight Clark. Just let that sink in for a minute..... Clark wouldn't start on Marino's, Moon's or Kelly's squads. Duper and Clayton, Haywood Jeffries and Ernest Givens, James Lofton and Andre Reed. If you compare just physical talent top to bottom, the squads those QBs played on SHOULD beat the World Champion '81 team and on paper should give the 84 team a run for its money.

Should.


That's why Montana (with Walsh) is never, ever underrated.

Man I did not see this when I posted but you put it better than I did.
This thread needs to be locked and shot into a black hole never to be seen again.
Originally posted by zillabeast:
This thread needs to be locked and shot into a black hole never to be seen again.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Just had to share the blasphemy. Couldn't believe what I was reading.
Originally posted by zillabeast:
This thread needs to be locked and shot into a black hole never to be seen again.

I concur.
he would never say brady is overrated. Man, i would call him a certain gay slur if my warning wasn't so high.
Originally posted by pdizo916:
he would never say brady is overrated. Man, i would call him a certain gay slur if my warning wasn't so high.

I resent Brady due to SpyGate being when Brady was just developing. He's very good now, but I think less of him for the way he developed.



As for Joe? He was great, and definitely not overrated. But... he wasn't flawless.
This guy is trying to play the "what if" game, so I'll bite...

What if Roger Craig doesn't fumble in the 1990 playoff game against the Giants, and Montana doesn't hurt his elbow? We would have beaten the breaks off the Bills. That would have been a three-peat. 1991 he was out the whole year, and the Redskins won it all. Would have likely been another Niners championship. 1992-1995 was the Cowboys-Niners rivalry, and Steve Young choked badly in 1992 and 1993. So let's say they kept Montana and he played all of those years. Montana and the Niners would have basically been at the doorstep of the Super Bowl from 1991 to 1995. So you're talking about anywhere from 5 to 10 Super Bowl titles.

Montana was cold, calculated, and efficient. His style of play embodied everything about the QB position - get your teammates involved, run the clock, keep your opponent off balance, win the game. It seemed boring at times. I'm sure teams would walk off the field saying "this guy sucks how did we lose?" many times. But that was the genius of his play. He was a stone cold assassin, a straight up ninja in cleats.

Let's not forget the rules changes in 1995 (no chucking out of bounds) and 1996 (illegal contact) made it much easier to pass the ball. Many of the QB's mentioned as better than him played a lot of years after 1995, when Montana was retired.

So even in this fantasy "what if" world that the writer is talking about, Montana is still the greatest QB of all time!
Originally posted by Furlow:
This guy is trying to play the "what if" game, so I'll bite...

What if Roger Craig doesn't fumble in the 1990 playoff game against the Giants, and Montana doesn't hurt his elbow? We would have beaten the breaks off the Bills. That would have been a three-peat. 1991 he was out the whole year, and the Redskins won it all. Would have likely been another Niners championship. 1992-1995 was the Cowboys-Niners rivalry, and Steve Young choked badly in 1992 and 1993. So let's say they kept Montana and he played all of those years. Montana and the Niners would have basically been at the doorstep of the Super Bowl from 1991 to 1995. So you're talking about anywhere from 5 to 10 Super Bowl titles.

Montana was cold, calculated, and efficient. His style of play embodied everything about the QB position - get your teammates involved, run the clock, keep your opponent off balance, win the game. It seemed boring at times. I'm sure teams would walk off the field saying "this guy sucks how did we lose?" many times. But that was the genius of his play. He was a stone cold assassin, a straight up ninja in cleats.

Let's not forget the rules changes in 1995 (no chucking out of bounds) and 1996 (illegal contact) made it much easier to pass the ball. Many of the QB's mentioned as better than him played a lot of years after 1995, when Montana was retired.

So even in this fantasy "what if" world that the writer is talking about, Montana is still the greatest QB of all time!

Fantastic post!
If 4 Superbowl wins are overrated then you can add Brady, Brees, both Manning's, Rogers, Favre, Namath, Bradshaw, and who ever else played qb to the list of being overrated!
Montana was the best. THE Best. Let us not overlook that the premise of this isn't even if he is the best. To keep this in perspective these a$$ clowns argue that the dude who delivered 4 Lombardi trophies to San Francisco was overrated. That's just insanity.
[ Edited by VA49er on Jul 9, 2013 at 5:31 PM ]
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Furlow:
This guy is trying to play the "what if" game, so I'll bite...

What if Roger Craig doesn't fumble in the 1990 playoff game against the Giants, and Montana doesn't hurt his elbow? We would have beaten the breaks off the Bills. That would have been a three-peat. 1991 he was out the whole year, and the Redskins won it all. Would have likely been another Niners championship. 1992-1995 was the Cowboys-Niners rivalry, and Steve Young choked badly in 1992 and 1993. So let's say they kept Montana and he played all of those years. Montana and the Niners would have basically been at the doorstep of the Super Bowl from 1991 to 1995. So you're talking about anywhere from 5 to 10 Super Bowl titles.

Montana was cold, calculated, and efficient. His style of play embodied everything about the QB position - get your teammates involved, run the clock, keep your opponent off balance, win the game. It seemed boring at times. I'm sure teams would walk off the field saying "this guy sucks how did we lose?" many times. But that was the genius of his play. He was a stone cold assassin, a straight up ninja in cleats.

Let's not forget the rules changes in 1995 (no chucking out of bounds) and 1996 (illegal contact) made it much easier to pass the ball. Many of the QB's mentioned as better than him played a lot of years after 1995, when Montana was retired.

So even in this fantasy "what if" world that the writer is talking about, Montana is still the greatest QB of all time!

Fantastic post!

I want to take this post and shove it write up the writer's ass. Well done.
Montana's intangibles were off the charts. Nobody in his era came close in that regard except maybe Elway.

Brady & Eli might be the best today, but their resume doesn't hold a comeback candle to Montana.

It's interesting. A lot of people want to call Romo a choker and not even give him credit that if he played for the 49ers (or other championship caliber team), he'd win a super bowl for them. This despite IMO the crazy things he does on a dysfunctional Cowboys team.

However, everyone wants to say that Montana was a product of the system and a great all around team and would have sucked elsewhere. The idea that physically better QBs would be better than Montana on the same 49er teams is not something that translates to the real world.

In the playoffs, the stakes are higher and offenses as a general rule tend to get stymied more. A legitimately great QB is supposed to override that issue and get it done in the post season. Montana got it done 4 times in the '80s in a conference with the Redskins, Giants, Bears, Rams, Vikings....all very tough foes.
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