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Aldon Smith vs. DeMarcus Ware

Another thing a couple posters pointed out was fans giving credit to J smith Bowman and Willis for Aldon's stellar play and not vice versa.

Aldon does not have as much of an impact on these guys play as they do for him. Especially J smith, there just isn't much Aldon Willis or Bowman can do to make Justin look better. If Aldon gets a sack Justin might get a little bit of credit(or a lot) but their isn't much Aldon can do to make life easier on J smith or the others for that matter. Their play affects him more then his affects their play.

I haven't seen any threads since I've been a member that were J smith debates and the only thing with Willis and Bowman that I saw was either...

A Willis vs Bowman

B Willis vs Aldon

I think pretty much all of us are in agreement that Willis does more for those 2 to make life easier on them than they do for him.
  • buck
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Originally posted by NinerBuff:
somewhat related...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000216133/Best-defensive-dynamic-duo


Pretty nice.

One guy says Justin and Aldon are the best defensive duo in the league.
The other says Willis and Bowman are the best defensive duo in the league.

I agree. The best defensive quartet in the league is Smith, Smith, Willis and Bowman.
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Another thing a couple posters pointed out was fans giving credit to J smith Bowman and Willis for Aldon's stellar play and not vice versa.

Aldon does not have as much of an impact on these guys play as they do for him. Especially J smith, there just isn't much Aldon Willis or Bowman can do to make Justin look better. If Aldon gets a sack Justin might get a little bit of credit(or a lot) but their isn't much Aldon can do to make life easier on J smith or the others for that matter. Their play affects him more then his affects their play.

I haven't seen any threads since I've been a member that were J smith debates and the only thing with Willis and Bowman that I saw was either...

A Willis vs Bowman

B Willis vs Aldon

I think pretty much all of us are in agreement that Willis does more for those 2 to make life easier on them than they do for him.

wut?

How does a MLB affect the play of a pass rusher on pass plays? They drop into either zone or man coverage, and if the rush its usually through the A(off center) or B gap(off guard) not the C gap (off tackle). You can compare Willis and Bowman, but Willis and Aldon play completely different positions.
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Another thing a couple posters pointed out was fans giving credit to J smith Bowman and Willis for Aldon's stellar play and not vice versa.

Aldon does not have as much of an impact on these guys play as they do for him. Especially J smith, there just isn't much Aldon Willis or Bowman can do to make Justin look better. If Aldon gets a sack Justin might get a little bit of credit(or a lot) but their isn't much Aldon can do to make life easier on J smith or the others for that matter. Their play affects him more then his affects their play.

I haven't seen any threads since I've been a member that were J smith debates and the only thing with Willis and Bowman that I saw was either...

A Willis vs Bowman

B Willis vs Aldon

I think pretty much all of us are in agreement that Willis does more for those 2 to make life easier on them than they do for him.

wut?

How does a MLB affect the play of a pass rusher on pass plays? They drop into either zone or man coverage, and if the rush its usually through the A(off center) or B gap(off guard) not the C gap (off tackle). You can compare Willis and Bowman, but Willis and Aldon play completely different positions.

I didn't really compare the two, we were arguing about who was more valuable.

Neither really affect the others position too much, but Willis locks up tight ends and receivers that run shorter routes to give aldon more time to get after the qb. He also inspires the people on his defense to go harder for him IMO. He calls audibles at the LOS. The front 7 as a unit have made it known that it isn't going to be easy to run on them so it makes teams a little more 1 dimensional than they normally are. But your right there isn't too much Willis does that affects aldon's play.
  • buck
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Originally posted by Memphis9er:
" Anything that can be destroyed by truth should be."

Way to shine the light of truth on some grievous misconceptions Buck.

Thanks.

Great quote.

Who said that?
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
" Anything that can be destroyed by truth should be."

Way to shine the light of truth on some grievous misconceptions Buck.

Thanks.

Great quote.

Who said that?

Bill Clinton
Originally posted by Disp:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Funny because I can think of 2 players on our current roster.. how about J smith or C rogers? It isn't a stupid argument at all. But do me a favor and don't sound so uninformed when you make a comment like that.

Yeah I don't remember either of them being stars before signing with the 49ers. Smith was good, but not elite before joining the Niners. Rodgers signed a 1 year prove it contract and wasn't a high value free agent whatsoever.

Nate Clements
Mario Williams
Albert Haynesworth
Nnamdi Asomugha

Bart Scott wasn't really a star either, you're right. I was just trying to think of players regarded as elite or close to it who left a team and had similar success elsewhere, and couldn't think of any others than Peppers. Scott signed a huge contract with the Jets in 2009 though; $8 or $9 mil./yr.


I don't agree that clements was ever a true star, but that's just my opinion.

The jury is still out on Mario Williams who I might add had to change positions along with haynesworth. Williams hasn't played bad but true he hasn't lived up to his contract.

Haynesworth was a headcase and nnamdi changed to a system that ran a lot more zone coverages than he was used to.

So for 2 of the 4 it was also a position change.
[ Edited by JimDrinkAMiller on Jul 3, 2013 at 9:03 PM ]
  • buck
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As far as I can tell, there is no significant difference in what Aldon Smith and DeMarcus Ware are asked to do.

Smith rushed the passer 52.49% of the time.
Ware rushes the passer 50.67% of the time.

Smith dropped into coverage and defended the run 47.51% of the time.
Ware dropped into coverage and defended the run 49.33% of the time.

That is a difference of 1.82%. That may be a significant difference but I do not think that it is.

Aldon had 1025 snaps. 1.82 % of 1025 snaps is 18.65 snaps, which is a difference of 1.17 snaps per game.
Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
IMO, the real comparison should be Aldon vs. Jason Pierre Paul.....they are only one year apart. Granted the comparison to Ware is more accurate in terms of position, but DE vs OLB is not a night and day difference, and if the 49ers converted to a 4-3 that's what Smith would be.

Aldon seems to be the more gifted pass rusher, but JPP (at least in 2011) was probably the better run stopper. People like to claim that JPP has more upside, but until I see it, I ain't buying it.

Gotta be a homer on this one.

I think the only people who say JPP has more upside are Giants fans. Aldon is still very raw, and he's already got 33.5 sacks....


I wonder how many times JPP has picked up an offensive tackle up off the ground and threw him flat onto his back? Aldon is on another level.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Jul 4, 2013 at 12:33 AM ]
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Another thing a couple posters pointed out was fans giving credit to J smith Bowman and Willis for Aldon's stellar play and not vice versa.

Aldon does not have as much of an impact on these guys play as they do for him. Especially J smith, there just isn't much Aldon Willis or Bowman can do to make Justin look better. If Aldon gets a sack Justin might get a little bit of credit(or a lot) but their isn't much Aldon can do to make life easier on J smith or the others for that matter. Their play affects him more then his affects their play.

I haven't seen any threads since I've been a member that were J smith debates and the only thing with Willis and Bowman that I saw was either...

A Willis vs Bowman

B Willis vs Aldon

I think pretty much all of us are in agreement that Willis does more for those 2 to make life easier on them than they do for him.

wut?

How does a MLB affect the play of a pass rusher on pass plays? They drop into either zone or man coverage, and if the rush its usually through the A(off center) or B gap(off guard) not the C gap (off tackle). You can compare Willis and Bowman, but Willis and Aldon play completely different positions.

I didn't really compare the two, we were arguing about who was more valuable.

Neither really affect the others position too much, but Willis locks up tight ends and receivers that run shorter routes to give aldon more time to get after the qb. He also inspires the people on his defense to go harder for him IMO. He calls audibles at the LOS. The front 7 as a unit have made it known that it isn't going to be easy to run on them so it makes teams a little more 1 dimensional than they normally are. But your right there isn't too much Willis does that affects aldon's play.

Bro, you don't think our defense would suffer a MAJOR hit if Aldon got hurt?
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Another thing a couple posters pointed out was fans giving credit to J smith Bowman and Willis for Aldon's stellar play and not vice versa.

Aldon does not have as much of an impact on these guys play as they do for him. Especially J smith, there just isn't much Aldon Willis or Bowman can do to make Justin look better. If Aldon gets a sack Justin might get a little bit of credit(or a lot) but their isn't much Aldon can do to make life easier on J smith or the others for that matter. Their play affects him more then his affects their play.

I haven't seen any threads since I've been a member that were J smith debates and the only thing with Willis and Bowman that I saw was either...

A Willis vs Bowman

B Willis vs Aldon

I think pretty much all of us are in agreement that Willis does more for those 2 to make life easier on them than they do for him.

wut?

How does a MLB affect the play of a pass rusher on pass plays? They drop into either zone or man coverage, and if the rush its usually through the A(off center) or B gap(off guard) not the C gap (off tackle). You can compare Willis and Bowman, but Willis and Aldon play completely different positions.

I didn't really compare the two, we were arguing about who was more valuable.

Neither really affect the others position too much, but Willis locks up tight ends and receivers that run shorter routes to give aldon more time to get after the qb. He also inspires the people on his defense to go harder for him IMO. He calls audibles at the LOS. The front 7 as a unit have made it known that it isn't going to be easy to run on them so it makes teams a little more 1 dimensional than they normally are. But your right there isn't too much Willis does that affects aldon's play.

Bro, you don't think our defense would suffer a MAJOR hit if Aldon got hurt?

Absolutely, I think if we lost any of our 4 superstars on d it would be a major hit
  • buck
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Originally posted by niner4life21:
Bro, you don't think our defense would suffer a MAJOR hit if Aldon got hurt?

Come on be serious, nobody in their right minds would say that our defense would not suffer a major hit, if Aldon got hurt.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Ware was hurt last year, just like Aldon, maybe a little more seriously and for longer. Both fine players. I think it's important to keep in mind their ages when they came in the league. Demarcus was 23 + 2 mo, Aldon turned 22 four weeks into his rookie season. That's a difference you have to keep in mind.


DeMarcus Ware and Aldon Smith both had a torn labrum and both had surgery.

I have no idea which injury was more serious, but Ware also had a problem with his elbow.

edit: I know that Ware is getting older and that may mean he is slowing down, but I do not understand your point about their ages when they came into the league.


Hey buck

Any chance you want to compare a 2011 version of ware to a 2011 or 2012 version of aldon? That would really shut me the f**k up.
  • buck
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Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Hey buck

Any chance you want to compare a 2011 version of ware to a 2011 or 2012 version of aldon? That would really shut me the f**k up.

I could, but it will take a little time.
  • buck
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double post
[ Edited by buck on Jul 4, 2013 at 4:53 PM ]