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Aldon Smith vs. DeMarcus Ware

  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,137
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by GNielsen:
That 4.56 is an 8 year old number.

Yes, but we're comparing apples to apples. Young Ware= Young Aldon (i.e. Aldon now).

You know, I come off pretty crabby about Aldon. But. really, he's pretty young. I mean, really really young. And he already has 2 years of all pro nfl experience and accomplishment. I'm optimistic he will improve in every phase of the game over time.

First, the claim is being made that that DeMarcus Ware is better in run defense and pass coverage than Aldon Smith right now.

I am arguing against that claim. I do not think that Ware is better than Smith in run or pass defense right now.

Given that last year Aldon Smith and DeMarcus Ware played the same position, I have no problem with comparing their play from last year.

The comparison is apples to apples or, if you want, 3-4 outside line backer to 3-4 outside line backer.
Comparing an older player to a younger player is perfectly legitimate. It happens every year in training camp.

I am not comparing the careers of Aldon Smith and DeMarcus Ware. I do think that would be some what problematic ,

If you want to do a comparative between the first two years of their respective careers, you should do that. I think the results would be interesting.

But, I am not particularly, at least at this point, in doing the work entailed in doing a comparative study of their first two years in the NFL.
I would encourage you, if you are interested, to do that study.

Originally posted by buck:
First, the claim is being made that that DeMarcus Ware is better in run defense and pass coverage than Aldon Smith right now.

I am arguing against that claim. I do not think that Ware is better than Smith in run or pass defense right now.

Given that last year Aldon Smith and DeMarcus Ware played the same position, I have no problem with comparing their play from last year.

The comparison is apples to apples or, if you want, 3-4 outside line backer to 3-4 outside line backer.
Comparing an older player to a younger player is perfectly legitimate. It happens every year in training camp.

I am not comparing the careers of Aldon Smith and DeMarcus Ware. I do think that would be some what problematic ,

If you want to do a comparative between the first two years of their respective careers, you should do that. I think the results would be interesting.

But, I am not particularly, at least at this point, in doing the work entailed in doing a comparative study of their first two years in the NFL.
I would encourage you, if you are interested, to do that study.

You have the pff subscription.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by buck:
First, the claim is being made that that DeMarcus Ware is better in run defense and pass coverage than Aldon Smith right now.

I am arguing against that claim. I do not think that Ware is better than Smith in run or pass defense right now.

Given that last year Aldon Smith and DeMarcus Ware played the same position, I have no problem with comparing their play from last year.

The comparison is apples to apples or, if you want, 3-4 outside line backer to 3-4 outside line backer.
Comparing an older player to a younger player is perfectly legitimate. It happens every year in training camp.

I am not comparing the careers of Aldon Smith and DeMarcus Ware. I do think that would be some what problematic ,

If you want to do a comparative between the first two years of their respective careers, you should do that. I think the results would be interesting.

But, I am not particularly, at least at this point, in doing the work entailed in doing a comparative study of their first two years in the NFL.
I would encourage you, if you are interested, to do that study.

You have the pff subscription.


All he has to do is copy/paste. Not much thinking involved in that.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,137
Pass Coverage #2

In 2012, there were twelve 3-4 outside linebackers that played 75% of their team's snaps.
And yes, Aldon Smith and DeMarcus Ware were two of those 3-4 outside linebackers.

1. Receptions given up

20th DeMarcus Ware--9
23rd Aldon Smith—10

2. Receiving yardage given up

16th Aldon Smith—66 yards
19th DeMarcus War—77 yards

3. Average per reception given up

2nd Aldon Smith—6.6 yards
8th DeMarcus Ware—8.6 yards

4. Catch rate against

9th -- Aldon Smith—83.3%
11th -- DeMarcus Ware—90%

5. QB Rating against

4th Aldon Smith—82.6
9th --DeMarcus Ware—98.8

I find it difficult to think that DeMarcus Ware is better in coverage than Aldon Smith.


[ Edited by buck on Jul 3, 2013 at 4:21 PM ]
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,137
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
You have the pff subscription.

And?

The PFF stats only cover the last five years.

As I said, I am not interested in comparing the first two years of their careers.
IMO, the real comparison should be Aldon vs. Jason Pierre Paul.....they are only one year apart. Granted the comparison to Ware is more accurate in terms of position, but DE vs OLB is not a night and day difference, and if the 49ers converted to a 4-3 that's what Smith would be.

Aldon seems to be the more gifted pass rusher, but JPP (at least in 2011) was probably the better run stopper. People like to claim that JPP has more upside, but until I see it, I ain't buying it.

Gotta be a homer on this one.
Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
IMO, the real comparison should be Aldon vs. Jason Pierre Paul.....they are only one year apart. Granted the comparison to Ware is more accurate in terms of position, but DE vs OLB is not a night and day difference, and if the 49ers converted to a 4-3 that's what Smith would be.

Aldon seems to be the more gifted pass rusher, but JPP (at least in 2011) was probably the better run stopper. People like to claim that JPP has more upside, but until I see it, I ain't buying it.

Gotta be a homer on this one.

I think the only people who say JPP has more upside are Giants fans. Aldon is still very raw, and he's already got 33.5 sacks....
Originally posted by buck:
Pass Coverage #2

In 2012, there were twelve 3-4 outside linebackers that played 75% of their team's snaps.
And yes, Aldon Smith and DeMarcus Ware were two of those 3-4 outside linebackers.

1. Receptions given up

20th DeMarcus Ware--9
23rd Aldon Smith—10

2. Receiving yardage given up

16th Aldon Smith—66 yards
19th DeMarcus War—77 yards

3. Average per reception given up

2nd Aldon Smith—6.6 yards
8th DeMarcus Ware—8.6 yards

4. Catch rate against

9th -- Aldon Smith—83.3%
11th -- DeMarcus Ware—90%

5. QB Rating against

4th Aldon Smith—82.6
9th --DeMarcus Ware—98.8

I find it difficult to think that DeMarcus Ware is better in coverage than Aldon Smith.



Well, for most stats it doesn't show either LB as high elite. I'd like to see the distribution of receiving yards, because when you are talking about statistically so few receptions, one bad play could really skew the numbers. The catch rate against looks huge to me for these guys. What does the league leader look like? Is that right that QB's hit 10/12 against aldon and 9/10 against demarcus? That seems like a lot of success. Doesn't it?
It would be fair to compare young ware to aldon now.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,137
Pass coverage #3
Interceptions and passes broken up are key elements in pass defense.

Last year, Aldon had 1 interception and 0 passes broken up. .

Last year, DeMarcus Ware had 0 interceptions and 0 passes broken up. .

Another key element in pass coverage is the number of touchdowns given up.

Last year, Aldon gave up 1 touchdown. DeMarcus Ware gave up 0 touchdowns.
[ Edited by buck on Jul 3, 2013 at 4:50 PM ]
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,137
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by buck:
Pass Coverage #2

In 2012, there were twelve 3-4 outside linebackers that played 75% of their team's snaps.
And yes, Aldon Smith and DeMarcus Ware were two of those 3-4 outside linebackers.

1. Receptions given up

20th DeMarcus Ware--9
23rd Aldon Smith—10

2. Receiving yardage given up

16th Aldon Smith—66 yards
19th DeMarcus War—77 yards

3. Average per reception given up

2nd Aldon Smith—6.6 yards
8th DeMarcus Ware—8.6 yards

4. Catch rate against

9th -- Aldon Smith—83.3%
11th -- DeMarcus Ware—90%

5. QB Rating against

4th Aldon Smith—82.6
9th --DeMarcus Ware—98.8

I find it difficult to think that DeMarcus Ware is better in coverage than Aldon Smith.



Well, for most stats it doesn't show either LB as high elite. I'd like to see the distribution of receiving yards, because when you are talking about statistically so few receptions, one bad play could really skew the numbers. The catch rate against looks huge to me for these guys. What does the league leader look like? Is that right that QB's hit 10/12 against aldon and 9/10 against demarcus? That seems like a lot of success. Doesn't it?

Again, the point I am speaking to is: DeMarcus Ware is asked to do more in run defense and pass coverage and the DeMarcus Ware is better in both.

I am not saying that either one is better. In fact, neither Smith or Ware appear to be very good in pass defense.

Arguing that which one is better than the other would be equivilent to arguing about whether cod liver oil is better tasting than castor oil.
somewhat related...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000216133/Best-defensive-dynamic-duo
I find it difficult to have an accurate assessment of the 2 players abilities when both were hampered last year. Also there are many variables that are not specified by the OP's reference. I understand wanting to reference them from time to time but when I have a question about the findings, there is no one to ask since the OP wasn't the one who put together the statistics.


For instance aldon is typically dropping back in zone, how can they accurately say a reception was given up in aldon's zone and how can they determine whether the YAC should be attributed to aldon or another defender. How about run stops? Does this take into account gang tackling? I just have a couple questions in regards to how they determine some of their stats and since they are a website I don't subscribe to, I can't find out. This is why I would rather debate people and their opinions and not a bunch of facts someone pulled off of a website.
Before ware's list of injuries, he was regarded as one of the best pass defenders at the OLB position. You can't knock the guy's pass defense too much when he wasn't full speed.
Aldon all day, he's made more of an impact in his first two years than Ware made in his first two and they both were in the exact same situations. Ware is asked to do more NOW but when he was first starting out he was basically a defensive end that stood up instead of the 3 point stance. He rushed the passer 90% of the time compared to having to fall back in coverage. He is still used more as a pass rusher now too, Anthony Spencer is basically the do everything OLB like Brooks while Ware is the primary pass rushing OLB. As of this past season I've even read some cowboy fan opinions that Spencer had more of an impact on games than Ware.