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HaRoMan - 2013 Offense

cciowa and pasodoc9er

I know you both saw this in my Superbowl Notes thread but I think THIS is an area where Mangini could help a ton. Picture Roman scrambling through an unsuccessful first half with blown opportunities, penalties, formation-tip-offs, turnovers, down 21-6, etc. He goes into half time trying to adjust and game plan for the 2nd half.

Now picture Mangini in the booth watching how the Ravens are playing us. He sees they are going 0 blitz (or run blitzing up the gut) esp. on first downs and constantly in the RZ. Now flash forward to the final 5 plays of the game and what do you think Mangini would whisper into Roman's ear?
  • Ironically, the end to the first half was almost exactly the same as the end of the game! 2nd and 2 from the 7 yard line. 35 seconds to go. 0 blitz. 2 or less yards gained on a run up the gut. Next play we roll naked right with no uncovered options (Crabtree again). Total yards = 0. We only get 3 pts...Roman saw EXACTLY how the Ravens would play us at the end of the game at the end of the first half. And he called the same exact offensive plays/series. Sad!
Here's a hint...
  • Don't run up the middle on 1st down
  • Use your TE's right behind the blitzing LBers
  • Don't roll out right naked and only target Crabtree
Actually ,NC , I can see mangini bent over, not whispering, but yelling into roman's face: " you don't really want to throw a pass on this down, do you?." Hopefully, it will work out as a team and roman takes in mangini in a good way, with no animosity. Hell, we all want #6 ring. Roman will be moving on after this season, despite the contract (2 yrs), so he should take no offense when mangini points out an obvious D set against which a particular play called, won't work. If mangini can do that one thing, he could be responsible for some otherwise lost games due to crummy calls. I like it...really like it.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Actually ,NC , I can see mangini bent over, not whispering, but yelling into roman's face: " you don't really want to throw a pass on this down, do you?." Hopefully, it will work out as a team and roman takes in mangini in a good way, with no animosity. Hell, we all want #6 ring. Roman will be moving on after this season, despite the contract (2 yrs), so he should take no offense when mangini points out an obvious D set against which a particular play called, won't work. If mangini can do that one thing, he could be responsible for some otherwise lost games due to crummy calls. I like it...really like it.

Laughing so hard right now! And I agree...completely.

That did get me thinking HOW that relationship will work. If Mangini is the Senior advisor, does he overrule Roman, has no part on game days, just there if Roman has a question, only helps with game planning, etc. I'm very curious as to specifically they will work together...
Ahhh, my son...now you see what a really great HC is for. But to your point, this better be dam well worked out well in advance. I'd hate to see one or the other thrown out the window upstairs. Worse, this could be a fuster cluck if not straightened out early and often. Like I have posted many a time: Coach H should be calling plays on game day. This b.s. of plays coming in late....put that all on HC. It IS HC's job to get the dang plays in , well before they even huddle. Personally, I like the Peyton method, where he has 2 plays given him the moment the previous play is over. That is a hard, hard job. But I think JH is very able to do it. As for mangini and roman, they have to be terse, concise, and blam, quick. Otherwise, this is dead before it starts.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Ahhh, my son...now you see what a really great HC is for. But to your point, this better be dam well worked out well in advance. I'd hate to see one or the other thrown out the window upstairs. Worse, this could be a fuster cluck if not straightened out early and often. Like I have posted many a time: Coach H should be calling plays on game day. This b.s. of plays coming in late....put that all on HC. It IS HC's job to get the dang plays in , well before they even huddle. Personally, I like the Peyton method, where he has 2 plays given him the moment the previous play is over. That is a hard, hard job. But I think JH is very able to do it. As for mangini and roman, they have to be terse, concise, and blam, quick. Otherwise, this is dead before it starts.

Hey, having Harbaugh call the game-day plays may end up being the case in the very near future. After all, he's a former QB himself and would understand this role. I had always wanted Alex to run the offense at the LOS line Manning or Drew. I thought with his mind and ability to read defenses, he'd excel at that...esp. from a spread or wide open WCO like in Green Bay. But I don't think that is how our current coaching staff views the offensive approach. And now we have a young CK so we can write that off for a long time. Audibles, yes, but not running the show. Yeah, we talked about that yesterday...very curious to see how RoMan work together on this. How those roles will be defined.
Yeah, NC, I thought alex could have done it also. Additionally, I knew our 7 OCs in 7 yrs couldn't (ok, Norv could, but he was just here waiting for the HC job elsewhere). Laying this on Kap would be the answer, but he is young, still figuring out who he is, (nice layout in magazines , however. Sure wonder what Joe and Steve are thinking about that?), still working on learning the playbook, cover to cover for each position, not just his own. Once he gets there, it WOULD be a better idea for him to call plays....with 2 sent in each down, just like peyton does. Actually, I think kap may be smart enough to ultimately pull this off. Still and all, it is the HC's job to do this, and delegating to Roman has sure had its downsides...notably not getting the GD plays in on time. What a way to ruin a great gameplan. shhesh.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Yeah, NC, I thought alex could have done it also. Additionally, I knew our 7 OCs in 7 yrs couldn't (ok, Norv could, but he was just here waiting for the HC job elsewhere). Laying this on Kap would be the answer, but he is young, still figuring out who he is, (nice layout in magazines , however. Sure wonder what Joe and Steve are thinking about that?), still working on learning the playbook, cover to cover for each position, not just his own. Once he gets there, it WOULD be a better idea for him to call plays....with 2 sent in each down, just like peyton does. Actually, I think kap may be smart enough to ultimately pull this off. Still and all, it is the HC's job to do this, and delegating to Roman has sure had its downsides...notably not getting the GD plays in on time. What a way to ruin a great gameplan. shhesh.

I'm with you...very curious to see how HaRoMan work together this year to resolve all of THEIR own issues last year...there were a lot of them esp. with game management. They've got to get better every day, right?
Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm with you...very curious to see how HaRoMan work together this year to resolve all of THEIR own issues last year...there were a lot of them esp. with game management. They've got to get better every day, right?


Now there is the REAL odd couple. One guy is saying his prayers and the other with a chaw 'atween his cheek and gum. Cool outfit on the Coach.

Actually, roman is praying he gets the plays in on time. Coach is wondering where to spit his chaw.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Jul 12, 2013 at 9:33 AM ]
I also like the idea of Harbaugh calling plays because he's been there behind center in the middle of it all. But, the only thing that worries me about that is that I would hope he could calm down a little so he can think clearly.
Please never make a name like HaRoMan again.

If you must, please at least do not breed.

We have enough problems in this world.

Call it something....that doesn't make me lose faith in future generations.

Geeeeez

Ok anyway, I am sure you are a nice and intelligent person and I would defend you as a Niner. Now seriously, in my humble opinion (laughing) it may be possible this coaching staff will be much more efficient this year, Mangini making a difference included. I am having a hard time believing they haven't learned some things from last year. I have this sense that the coaching is going to win some games this year that would have been lost last year.

League better be on their toes.
[ Edited by 49erWay on Jul 15, 2013 at 7:29 PM ]
Originally posted by 49erWay:
Please never make a name like HaRoMan again.

If you must, please at least do not breed.

We have enough problems in this world.

Call it something....that doesn't make me lose faith in future generations.

Geeeeez

Ok anyway, I am sure you are a nice and intelligent person and I would defend you as a Niner. Now seriously, in my humble opinion (laughing) it may be possible this coaching staff will be much more efficient this year, Mangini making a difference included. I am having a hard time believing they haven't learned some things from last year. I have this sense that the coaching is going to win some games this year that would have been lost last year.

League better be on their toes.

LOL, sorry, we referred to both the last two years as HaRoman anyway so throwing Man on the end just made sense. Ha.

Anyhow, I agree...we can't underestimate that the coaching staff is young as a "unit" to the NFL and are learning to take that next step as well as the players. I have a feeling with a full off season and clearly being able to see where our issues were last year (work cut out for us), they too will improve. I think Mangini will be a helpful addition to this offense. Its easy for us as fans to see the W-W-L patterns, slow starts, being outcoached, seeing patterns, etc. Having a guy in-booth provide that perspective as well as contributing to the game plans will be helpful while Harbaugh and Roman are focused on in-game management.
[ Edited by NCommand on Jul 16, 2013 at 7:00 AM ]
BTW: Very good interviews and Niner information: http://www.profootballcentral.com/2013/07/15/49ers-receiver-aj-jenkins-guest-stars-on-niner-talk-central-radio-along-with-bryan-mcgovern/

They even discuss Nnamdi's reclusiveness in Philly out of the gate (and how different he is here).
Originally posted by NCommand:
Here's a hint...
  • Don't run up the middle on 1st down
  • Use your TE's right behind the blitzing LBers
  • Don't roll out right naked and only target Crabtree

From your lips to Roman''s ears!

Great post NC! Agree with most and have just a couple of comments--

Formations--Harbaugh/Roman will continue to use massive numbers of formations and run different plays from them…just have to wait and enjoy seeing what they do. I'm not sure whether some of the problems over the past two years involve the players being not quite ready for every formation, but this year should be a break out year for the passing game.

Divided Roles--not sure whether Harbaugh will change this too much, but the coaches may work better together for the same reason as stated above for the players…time together or more synergism. One reason to keep all the coaches involved is to replace a guy if he finds a better job elsewhere and to keep them all in the game.

James is a better pure runner than Sproles (IMO). He can work on his hands but Hunter is closer to Sproles than James at this point…although I don't like that comparison either. This has to be the best backfield in the NFL…by far! I can't think of another team with four potential stars at HB.

Non-roster spots: I see BJ as making the team as a ST player or practice player, but not sure he would replace either Colt or Scott at the QB spot. I hope they can protect their non-roster players but that will be very difficult this year. May have to count on the second tier guys to come back on the PS after some guys are signed elsewhere.

Lastly, this coming year I hope they attack the middle in the passing game a bit more, especially in the RZ, and limit the runs into a stacked D. Spreading the field will help CK and the RBs and would be a return to a WCO staple. Mangini will help Roman and crew understand what defenses will be doing in the game prep more than scripting plays or calling plays.

NC's Concerns:

· Bone-headed calls at the worst times--some very odd calls

· Plays often seemed to come in very late esp. during critical times (even later)--time in system should help here.

· Outsmarted on several occasions (clearly)--this will happen but I hope Mangini helps lessen the impact here.

· Very slow starts (the anti-WCO approach)--wouldn't mind if the first series was used to set up the D but not sure this is happening.

· Not playing to momentum--this has been too frequent. They seem to have a plan and stick with it rather than giving players their heads. Trust?

· Tunnel vision plays (Gore, Gore, Crabtree)--trust? I believe they did not totally trust the young guys and relied too heavily on Gore and Crabtree, especially after Hunter and other injuries.