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HaRoMan - 2013 Offense

Originally posted by K1ngCoopa24:
I'm new here, but I've been lurking these forums for a long time. Lifetime niner fan of course. I know Harbaugh will always primarily be a running offense, but I'm hoping the coaches let Kaep sling the rock 30-35 times a game this season.

25 times has been optimal because that normally means that we are punishing teams on the ground preserving leads and winning games
Originally posted by NCommand:
Thanks! I forgot to add the most importance point (edited)


  • The Big 3 - here is where I see potentially the biggest difference in 2013. Last years game plan comprised of Roman drawing up the running game plays while Johnny Morton drew up the passing game and Geep Chryst did the red zone plays. Roman called the shots during the game and made adjustments as needed. This year, we could be seeing a shift to more Roman and Mangini. Roman showed he can be a genius with the running game, his forte, but now it's time to be less compartmentalized and complete an entire game plan on his own IMHO (with the added help from Mangini/Harbaugh). This could help with the "flow" better; something we all noticed last year.

Saw on the news Geep Chryst son is going to Stanford as a QB
Originally posted by NCommand:
Thanks! I forgot to add the most importance point (edited)


  • The Big 3 - here is where I see potentially the biggest difference in 2013. Last years game plan comprised of Roman drawing up the running game plays while Johnny Morton drew up the passing game and Geep Chryst did the red zone plays. Roman called the shots during the game and made adjustments as needed. This year, we could be seeing a shift to more Roman and Mangini. Roman showed he can be a genius with the running game, his forte, but now it's time to be less compartmentalized and complete an entire game plan on his own IMHO (with the added help from Mangini/Harbaugh). This could help with the "flow" better; something we all noticed last year.

Saw on the news Geep Chryst son is going to Stanford as a QB
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
25 times has been optimal because that normally means that we are punishing teams on the ground preserving leads and winning games

I realize that, but, throwing it a few more times wouldn't hurt the running game that much IMO. It would allow Kaep more flexibility within the game; therefore making the offense more dynamic through the air.
Originally posted by K1ngCoopa24:
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
25 times has been optimal because that normally means that we are punishing teams on the ground preserving leads and winning games

I realize that, but, throwing it a few more times wouldn't hurt the running game that much IMO. It would allow Kaep more flexibility within the game; therefore making the offense more dynamic through the air.

Welcome! And thanks for posting...do you think we'll go back to a more traditional WCO style where the first 15-20 plays are scripted and centered around the short to intermediate passing game to loosen up the defense, build early leads (an area of weakness last year) and then pound the rock much more in the second half?

I'm curious what people truly envision for this year. Obviously, it's been well documented that our game plan is totally dictated on the opponent we play...sort of a week-by-week offensive playbook. This is different from a WCO whereby the principles and plays are practiced to perfection with certain WCO plays designed to attack weaknesses in the defense.
I'm predicting that they will be throwing more often. I don't know if it will be a WCO, but I expect them to throw more often to get leads and then wear them down and run out the clock with that big O-line and running game.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Welcome! And thanks for posting...do you think we'll go back to a more traditional WCO style where the first 15-20 plays are scripted and centered around the short to intermediate passing game to loosen up the defense, build early leads (an area of weakness last year) and then pound the rock much more in the second half?

I'm curious what people truly envision for this year. Obviously, it's been well documented that our game plan is totally dictated on the opponent we play...sort of a week-by-week offensive playbook. This is different from a WCO whereby the principles and plays are practiced to perfection with certain WCO plays designed to attack weaknesses in the defense.

I honestly hope that Harbaugh and Roman focus on the more intermidiate and deep routes over the short passing game. Kaep had the best deep ball completion percentage in the NFL last season. That is his strength, and I am willing to bet we will see a lot of that. We arguably have the best OL in the league, if they make bring their pass blocking better we will be a top 5 offense. They did fine for the most part pass blocking last season, but it could've been better.
As for scripting the plays, I hope we do start doing that; it would establish an early rhythm for the offense and we all know we didn't have the greatest starts. With scripting the plays it would really help us for when we go to loud stadiums ala Century link and the Superdome and hopefully eliminate penalties resulting from crowd noise.
If Harbaugh let's loose the reigns on Kaep and we pass the ball more, once AJ catches a couple long ones from Kaep and takes those to paydirt; it will allow our already strong running game to be even better. They wouldn't dare stack the box for fear of turning one of our many weapons loose for a big chunk play or a TD.
[ Edited by K1ngCoopa24 on Jun 29, 2013 at 8:30 PM ]
Originally posted by K1ngCoopa24:
I'm new here, but I've been lurking these forums for a long time. Lifetime niner fan of course. I know Harbaugh will always primarily be a running offense, but I'm hoping the coaches let Kaep sling the rock 30-35 times a game this season.


Sup man! I think the above is real possible. If Crab didn't get hurt, and they actually let Kaep sling it that much, I think records would be broken.
Originally posted by ninerfan52:
Saw on the news Geep Chryst son is going to Stanford as a QB

The connection remains!
Originally posted by K1ngCoopa24:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Welcome! And thanks for posting...do you think we'll go back to a more traditional WCO style where the first 15-20 plays are scripted and centered around the short to intermediate passing game to loosen up the defense, build early leads (an area of weakness last year) and then pound the rock much more in the second half?

I'm curious what people truly envision for this year. Obviously, it's been well documented that our game plan is totally dictated on the opponent we play...sort of a week-by-week offensive playbook. This is different from a WCO whereby the principles and plays are practiced to perfection with certain WCO plays designed to attack weaknesses in the defense.

I honestly hope that Harbaugh and Roman focus on the more intermidiate and deep routes over the short passing game. Kaep had the best deep ball completion percentage in the NFL last season. That is his strength, and I am willing to bet we will see a lot of that. We arguably have the best OL in the league, if they make bring their pass blocking better we will be a top 5 offense. They did fine for the most part pass blocking last season, but it could've been better.
As for scripting the plays, I hope we do start doing that; it would establish an early rhythm for the offense and we all know we didn't have the greatest starts. With scripting the plays it would really help us for when we go to loud stadiums ala Century link and the Superdome and hopefully eliminate penalties resulting from crowd noise.
If Harbaugh let's loose the reigns on Kaep and we pass the ball more, once AJ catches a couple long ones from Kaep and takes those to paydirt; it will allow our already strong running game to be even better. They wouldn't dare stack the box for fear of turning one of our many weapons loose for a big chunk play or a TD.

Agreed. I'd much rather take the WCO-approch of practice-to-perfection vs. practice the new game plan which is different from week-to-week and dictated by the opponent we play.
Nice post NC and terrific summary. Last yr I said we would be using LMJ in the backfield as a bailout, or even as designated receiver. We didn't and I think that was a mistake. NF408 was correct when he mentioned that LMJ didn't catch many balls in college, but point is, he should have in our backfield. I think we are missing a bet not throwing to him in backfield, bail out or otherwise, and then let the D try to tackle him. Good luck. Yes, he ran between tackles in college, but this is NFL, and I believe LMJ should NOT be running his skinny self thru massive DLs, but instead be used as Reggie bush was early on and sproles later.

Only thing to add to your summary NC, is that we have so much talent it is going to be fascinating how to use it. My concern? Is roman equal to the task? My wish would be for HC to be the OC on game day. Have roman help with the O during the week and let coach H call plays on Sunday. That's not a common thot, but if Roman is gone after next yr( and probably will be), our HC remains...and if he is calling game plays, so much the better. It is true roman called some good games last yr...GB twice, and NE. But SEA and SB on last drive...well, we have to do a lot better than that. And I think JH is the guy to do it.

Most fascinating, will be just EXACTLY will mangini be doing. I hope it is being a good D coach, he can help the O in play calls against particular D sets. But what he actually does....that will be what is worth finding out.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Jul 2, 2013 at 1:24 PM ]
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Nice post NC and terrific summary. Last yr I said we would be using LMJ in the backfield as a bailout, or even as designated receiver. We didn't and I think that was a mistake. NF408 was correct when he mentioned that LMJ didn't catch many balls in college, but point is, he should have in our backfield. I think we are missing a bet not throwing to him in backfield, bail out or otherwise, and then let the D try to tackle him. Good luck. Yes, he ran between tackles in college, but this is NFL, and I believe LMJ should NOT be running his skinny self thru massive DLs, but instead be used as Reggie bush was early on and sproles later.

Only thing to add to your summary NC, is that we have so much talent it is going to be fascinating how to use it. My concern? Is roman equal to the task? My wish would be for HC to be the OC on game day. Have roman help with the O during the week and let coach H call plays on Sunday. That's not a common thot, but if Roman is gone after next yr( and probably will be), our HC remains...and if he is calling game plays, so much the better. It is true roman called some good games last yr...GB twice, and NE. But SEA and SB on last drive...well, we have to do a lot better than that. And I think JH is the guy to do it.

Most fascinating, will be just EXACTLY will mangini be doing. I hope it is being a good D coach, he can help the O in play calls against particular D sets. But what he actually does....that will be what is worth finding out.

Thank you and all three points are aligned with my thinking as well...how to use James with a healthy Hunter back, how Roman will adapt and his ability to rise up as well as Mangini's "real" role!
K1ingcoopa, just a reminder from last yrs SEA game, where we got the ball first, way back near the 20 , and Kap came out throwing, 3 long passes, and we punted to great field position for them. They then came back and scored, then again, and then again. There is a time and a place for the long ball , but three long to medium passes to begin the game in SEA, in the wet, was a really poor choice. Rather then see us just go vertical all the time, I would much rather see us tailor our game plan to the situation, and in SEA, that was NOT the right idea. Sure Kap can throw the big ball, but he also on occasion has shown us he has the touch pass in his repertoire. Granted roman obviously wanted to come out big, but not from inside the 20 on a wet day against two of the best CBs in the business. As the saying goes , there is a time and a place for everything. Of all the goofy things roman did last yr, besides the 4 screw ups from inside the 10 at end of game....that initial 3 plays in SEA was right there was some other bonehead calls.

Don't get me wrong...I love roman ...in 2/3 of the games. It is the other 1/3 that bothers not just me, but many others.It is also why I would prefer to have our HC, a former QB and former OC /HC at Stanford, call the plays on game day. Let roman run the O during the week. Let the HC call his game on game day.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
K1ingcoopa, just a reminder from last yrs SEA game, where we got the ball first, way back near the 20 , and Kap came out throwing, 3 long passes, and we punted to great field position for them. They then came back and scored, then again, and then again. There is a time and a place for the long ball , but three long to medium passes to begin the game in SEA, in the wet, was a really poor choice. Rather then see us just go vertical all the time, I would much rather see us tailor our game plan to the situation, and in SEA, that was NOT the right idea. Sure Kap can throw the big ball, but he also on occasion has shown us he has the touch pass in his repertoire. Granted roman obviously wanted to come out big, but not from inside the 20 on a wet day against two of the best CBs in the business. As the saying goes , there is a time and a place for everything. Of all the goofy things roman did last yr, besides the 4 screw ups from inside the 10 at end of game....that initial 3 plays in SEA was right there was some other bonehead calls.

Don't get me wrong...I love roman ...in 2/3 of the games. It is the other 1/3 that bothers not just me, but many others.It is also why I would prefer to have our HC, a former QB and former OC /HC at Stanford, call the plays on game day. Let roman run the O during the week. Let the HC call his game on game day.

These are good, salient examples. One should start putting a little list of concerns down...like a tracker of poor play calls, consistent areas of weakness, good plays calls that CK audibled out of or ad libbed, etc. Like of the 4 final plays, one was a good call (the QB keeper left) but Harbaugh called a TO. The play was right but we, once again got the play called in late and it FINALLY bit us in the azz at the worst possible time.