Who's better? Willis or Aldon

Originally posted by VPofCarnage:

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
I think Miller of the 3 is the only one you could argue being as good or better than Willis because he is the most complete, but I don't agree.

Von Miller doesn't bring quite as much to a defense as Willis does.

There is no way that Wake is more valuable of a player than Willis. Wake might be more valuable to his team only because Pat has more talent surrounding him.
But do you really think the Dolphins GM wouldn't take Willis over wake? I gurantee he would make that trade in a heatbeat.

It's funny that you value Wake more than Matthews. Matthews is the highest paid linebacker in the league for a reason.

I think that statement was hilarious. He said that Aldon's passrushing ability alone makes him more valuable than Willis. Again that is a RIDICULOUS statement.

The "reason" Matthews is the highest paid LB in the league is because he just recently signed it. Flacco is the highest paid QB in the league too. Wake is a better player than Matthews. That's not a knock on Matthews, but Wake is a terror.

But Aldon is even better than either one of them. And at least Aldon & Wake are more valuable than the best ILB in the NFL. Pass rushers of that caliber are more valuable than anything else out there except QBs (including an all-pro' OLT). Maybe Calvin Johnson is more valuable, but it's rare to have a WR who's as much better than any other WR in the league as he is,

So AP isn't more valuable just because he is a runningback? How about Revis Island pre-injury? Everyone was saying he was the best defensive player in the league.

Sorry to break it to you but football is a team sport. You can't say one position is more valuable than another other than quarterback. When Ronnie Lott played he was the best defensive player in the league at safety. Lewis Singletary and butkus were considered the best as ILB, Taylor and Brooks at OLB, Deion Green and champ at corner, Mean Joe Sapp White and D Jones on the D Line.

My point being that Taylor and Brooks weren't more important to their defenses than any of the other players mentioned above. You can think whatever you want but you have no proof.

Originally posted by GNielsen:
Yes, but...

Haley had Kevin f*gan - a raging beast and at the time the strongest player in the NFL, who would absolutely crush two blockers at the same time. He also had Jim Burt or Michael Carter at NT and Pierce Holt on the other side. That was an awesome D-line.

And 9 of A.Smith's 19.5 sacks came without Justin Smith's help.

I can not fathom why so many posters are so willing to demean Aldon Smith, his accomplishments and his football skills.

In both of two seasons, he has done more than anyone would of expected.

The players on team voted him the 2012 team MVP, and nobody seams to remember that.

Originally posted by VPofCarnage:

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
I think Miller of the 3 is the only one you could argue being as good or better than Willis because he is the most complete, but I don't agree.

Von Miller doesn't bring quite as much to a defense as Willis does.

There is no way that Wake is more valuable of a player than Willis. Wake might be more valuable to his team only because Pat has more talent surrounding him.
But do you really think the Dolphins GM wouldn't take Willis over wake? I gurantee he would make that trade in a heatbeat.

It's funny that you value Wake more than Matthews. Matthews is the highest paid linebacker in the league for a reason.

I think that statement was hilarious. He said that Aldon's passrushing ability alone makes him more valuable than Willis. Again that is a RIDICULOUS statement.

The "reason" Matthews is the highest paid LB in the league is because he just recently signed it. Flacco is the highest paid QB in the league too. Wake is a better player than Matthews. That's not a knock on Matthews, but Wake is a terror.

But Aldon is even better than either one of them. And at least Aldon & Wake are more valuable than the best ILB in the NFL. Pass rushers of that caliber are more valuable than anything else out there except QBs (including an all-pro' OLT). Maybe Calvin Johnson is more valuable, but it's rare to have a WR who's as much better than any other WR in the league as he is,

So AP isn't more valuable just because he is a runningback? How about Revis Island pre-injury? Everyone was saying he was the best defensive player in the league.

Sorry to break it to you but football is a team sport. You can't say one position is more valuable than another other than quarterback. When Ronnie Lott played he was the best defensive player in the league at safety. Lewis Singletary and butkus were considered the best as ILB, Taylor and Brooks at OLB, Deion Green and champ at corner, Mean Joe Sapp White and D Jones on the D Line.

My point being that Taylor and Brooks weren't more important to their defenses than any of the other players mentioned above. You can think whatever you want but you have no proof.

Originally posted by buck:

I can not fathom why so many posters are so willing to demean Aldon Smith, his accomplishments and his football skills.

In both of two seasons, he has done more than anyone would of expected.

The players on team voted him the 2012 team MVP, and nobody seams to remember that.

Its becuz everyone has there own opinion and theyre opinion is supposed to be the right opinion.

Originally posted by buck:
Everybody is entitled to have his own opinion.

The 49er players expressed theirs. They decided that Aldon Smith was the team's most valuable player in 2013.

Aldon Smith named winner of the Bill Walsh Award

On Monday, Jim Harbaugh announced that Aldon Smith was voted by the players as the team's MVP and won the Bill Walsh award as a result. "Aldon Smith was named by the 49ers as the team MVP," said Harbaugh. "He is playing at a really high level and is important for our team."

In just his second year, Smith had 19.5 sacks in the regular season which passed Fred Dean's single-season franchise record. He broke Reggie White's record for the most sacks for a player in his first two years in the league totaling 33.5 sacks.

http://www.examiner.com/article/jim-harbaugh-says-aldon-smith-is-the-team-mvp-alex-smith-is-still-helping-out

I am pretty sure the 49er players have some idea of what they voted on.

Has Willis won the award before?

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:

Has Willis won the award before?

Twice.

Here is what Justin Smith said about Aldon. He seems to think that Aldon is one of the great ones.

Justin Smith has admired his younger teammates' work ethic since the 49ers drafted him, but even he's been taken aback by Aldon Smith's quick progression.

"He's setting records left and right, so I think anytime anybody does that it's surprising," he said. "Just his transition into the NFL and how easy he's made it look, that's what the great ones do – they make it look easy."


http://tigersports.columbiamissourian.com/2013/01/28/aldon-smith-justin-smith-speak-up-at-super-bowl-media-day/

Bill Walsh Award Winners

2004 DE Bryant Young

2005 LB Derek Smith/K Joe Nedney

2006 RB Frank Gore/ CB Walt Harris

2007 CB Nate Clements/LB Patrick Willis

2008 DE Justin Smith

2009 LB Patrick Willis

2010 RB Frank Gore

2011 DT Justin Smith

2012 LB Aldon Smith

Originally posted by LoneWolf:

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Has Willis won the award before?

Twice.

Exactly. Willis' body of work is just as impressive as Aldon's IMO.

Willis is the more polished player. Aldon probably has more potential, but until he reaches his full potential I am not willing to say he is the most valuable player on our defense.

Willis has a more impressive body of work and is the leader of our defense. period.

Originally posted by buck:
Bill Walsh Award Winners

2004 DE Bryant Young

2005 LB Derek Smith/K Joe Nedney

2006 RB Frank Gore/ CB Walt Harris

2007 CB Nate Clements/LB Patrick Willis

2008 DE Justin Smith

2009 LB Patrick Willis

2010 RB Frank Gore

2011 DT Justin Smith

2012 LB Aldon Smith

If nate clements and joe nedney won the award in the past then the award doesn't mean that much. Sorry.

Not knocking Aldon at all just saying.

You never answered me on whether we resigned grant or not. I'm just curious and I wonder if his use of PED's last year has anything to do with his value dropping. I thought for sure another team would give him a respectable contract.

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:

Originally posted by LoneWolf:

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Has Willis won the award before?

Twice.

Exactly. Willis' body of work is just as impressive as Aldon's IMO.

Willis is the more polished player. Aldon probably has more potential, but until he reaches his full potential I am not willing to say he is the most valuable player on our defense.

Willis has a more impressive body of work and is the leader of our defense. period.

Are you willing to say his was the most valuable player on the team in 2012?

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
If nate clements and joe nedney won the award in the past then the award doesn't mean that much. Sorry.

Not knocking Aldon at all just saying.

You are kidding, right?

It's harder for pat to make plays because he has so many other playmakers around him now as opposed to his 1st couple of years, but yet he still does. Aldon doesn't have much competition when it comes to getting after the qb because IMO brooks isn't that great ( which I know many of you don't agree with ) and Willis and Bowman aren't asked to blitz much. That and the fact that Justin is constantly double teamed.

Also Pat has so many more responsibilities than Aldon. Aldon for the most part is asked to pin his ears back and get after the qb, so I expect him to get double digits sacks year in and year out. Did I expect him to get as many as he did? Of course not.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:

Originally posted by LoneWolf:

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Has Willis won the award before?

Twice.

Exactly. Willis' body of work is just as impressive as Aldon's IMO.

Willis is the more polished player. Aldon probably has more potential, but until he reaches his full potential I am not willing to say he is the most valuable player on our defense.

Willis has a more impressive body of work and is the leader of our defense. period.

Are you willing to say his was the most valuable player on the team in 2012?

No. But I am willing to say he is more valuable than A smith.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
If nate clements and joe nedney won the award in the past then the award doesn't mean that much. Sorry.

Not knocking Aldon at all just saying.

You are kidding, right?

Not at all. A kicker should never be a MVP on a team. Nate Clements was probably the most overpaid 49er ever.