Who's better? Willis or Aldon

How about, they are both excellent.

Originally posted by 190836:
How about, they are both excellent.

Yes, thank you.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

"Who's better? Willis or Aldon"
Somebody please this man!

My Lord, . . . . . . the season cannot get here fast enough. What silly things idle minds come up with.

bowman>everyone else.

Originally posted by buck:

Smith has averaged 51 tackles a game, 16.75 sacks, 2.5 forced fumbles, 0.5 interceptions, and 2.5 passes defended.

Over his career with the 49ers, Haley averaged 54.33 tackles, 11.8 sacks, 2.33 forced fumbles, 0.167 interceptions, and 0 passes defended.

Rather superhuman numbers? Did you mess up a decimal place or something?

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by verb1der:
I'm not sold on Aldon until he can record a sack with out Justin Smith next to him.

He's already done that a number of times lining up over the RT. Even when he's on the weakside he's gotten plenty of sacks by simply owning the LT with speed or bullrush. The stunts with J. Smith are very effective, but to say he can't record a sack without him is some BS the media made up.

Aldon playing injured compounded with the injury to Justin made his production suffer otherwise he would have broken Strahan's record

Exactly. A lot of people think Aldon's production tailed off after J. Smith got hurt, when in reality he tailed off because he had a significant shoulder injury of his own.

damn my bad, I didn't know he was hurt!

Originally posted by Pltan75:

Originally posted by buck:


Smith has averaged 51 tackles a game, 16.75 sacks, 2.5 forced fumbles, 0.5 interceptions, and 2.5 passes defended.

Over his career with the 49ers, Haley averaged 54.33 tackles, 11.8 sacks, 2.33 forced fumbles, 0.167 interceptions, and 0 passes defended.

Rather superhuman numbers? Did you mess up a decimal place or something?

It took me a while, but I found my mistake. Smith averaged 51 tackles, 16.75 sacks, 2.5 forced fumbles, 0.5 interceptions, and 2.5 passes defended A YEAR, NOT A GAME.

Thank you for catching my dumb, dumb, mistake.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
Aldon is great at passrusher, but he's well crap at coverage and stoping the run. Willis and Bowman are like watching the same guy both can cover, stop the run and chase the qb. I also think brooks is more of a complete player than aldon great in pass and run plays, but hopefully aldon now in his 3rd season will do better at those areas and improve his weakness. Personally I think we have the best Lb core to ever see a nfl football field and it's amazing to watch this defense.

Your claim that Aldon is "Crap at coverage and stopping the run" is not supported by the numbers.

If we are going to compare players, we should compare Aldon Smith as 49er to Charles Haley as a 49er.

Charles Haley played six years for the 49ers. He played in 106 games and started 63.

In his career with the 49ers, Haley had 326 tackles, 66 sacks, 14 forced fumbles, 1 interception, and 0 passes defended.

Aldon Smith has played for the 49ers for two years. In those two years, he has played in 32 games and started 16.

Aldon Smith has had 102 tackles, 33.5 sacks, 1 interception, 5 passes defended, and 5 forced fumbles.

Smith has averaged 51 tackles a game, 16.75 sacks, 2.5 forced fumbles, 0.5 interceptions, and 2.5 passes defended.

Over his career with the 49ers, Haley averaged 54.33 tackles, 11.8 sacks, 2.33 forced fumbles, 0.167 interceptions, and 0 passes defended.

Aldon Smith is a better pass rusher than Haley was.

Aldon Smith is fundamentally as good as Haley was against the run.

Aldon Smith is better against the pass than Haley was.

And if I remember correctly, nobody has ever complained about Haley's run defense or coverage skills.

Damn Aldon is a beast! 51 tackles a game? lol so he gets 816 tackles a year, 268 sacks a year and 40 FF?

Funny because the stats you provided do not prove that aldon is good at coverage or against the run. 1 interception in 2 years means nothing and 51 tackles a year doesn't mean he is a great run stuffer. 5 passes defended in 2 years is also not impressive when you consider JJ Watt a defensive end who isn't asked to drop back in coverage had more than triple the passes defended in 1 year than aldon did in 2. Now I do think he has improved tremendously at both compared to his rookie year, but if your going to try to prove him wrong than make sure your stats apply to your argument. I don't think PFF teaches you that..

But seriously the fact that he averages a sack a game is awesome. But to say that he is better than Willis is a stretch. Just because Grant stepped in and played phenomenal when Willis went down doesn't mean Willis is more expendable than Aldon or that he isn't as great of a player. Willis is the leader of the defense and does so many things that don't show up on the stat sheet.

People cant forget either that Aldon switched positions as well when he came to the NFL, and has progressivly gotten better in those areas where he is critisized as being less than stellar. I personally think he is fine in those areas for an edge rushing OLB, and not to mention he can shift into dline positions and rush from both sides without skipping a beat.

willis is overrated imo

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Damn Aldon is a beast! 51 tackles a game? lol so he gets 816 tackles a year, 268 sacks a year and 40 FF?

Funny because the stats you provided do not prove that aldon is good at coverage or against the run. 1 interception in 2 years means nothing and 51 tackles a year doesn't mean he is a great run stuffer. 5 passes defended in 2 years is also not impressive when you consider JJ Watt a defensive end who isn't asked to drop back in coverage had more than triple the passes defended in 1 year than aldon did in 2. Now I do think he has improved tremendously at both compared to his rookie year, but if your going to try to prove him wrong than make sure your stats apply to your argument. I don't think PFF teaches you that..

But seriously the fact that he averages a sack a game is awesome. But to say that he is better than Willis is a stretch. Just because Grant stepped in and played phenomenal when Willis went down doesn't mean Willis is more expendable than Aldon or that he isn't as great of a player. Willis is the leader of the defense and does so many things that don't show up on the stat sheet.

Look Willis is a hell of a player. Likely a HOF player, but the fact of the matter is he simply is more expendable than Aldon. The values are not the same for the positions, and both are among the top of their positions. A dominate pass rushing OLB the caliber of Aldon Smith is simply more valuable than any ILB period. As far as whos the better player, its not really a fair comparisson, but when you start to talk about value it is easy to pick a side.

And LOL at comparing Watt's pass defenses to Aldons. Aldon also switched positions when coing into the NFL and everyone knew he would be ra in those areas, but IMO he has progressed nicely as an OLB, but lets be real here, the dude has more sacks in his first two seasons than anyone thats ever played in the NFL. I know people here like to nitpick and its the offseason and thats fine, i do it myself, but his pass rushing ability alone is enough to justify him as the more valuable player.

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Damn Aldon is a beast! 51 tackles a game? lol so he gets 816 tackles a year, 268 sacks a year and 40 FF?

Funny because the stats you provided do not prove that aldon is good at coverage or against the run. 1 interception in 2 years means nothing and 51 tackles a year doesn't mean he is a great run stuffer. 5 passes defended in 2 years is also not impressive when you consider JJ Watt a defensive end who isn't asked to drop back in coverage had more than triple the passes defended in 1 year than aldon did in 2. Now I do think he has improved tremendously at both compared to his rookie year, but if your going to try to prove him wrong than make sure your stats apply to your argument. I don't think PFF teaches you that..

But seriously the fact that he averages a sack a game is awesome. But to say that he is better than Willis is a stretch. Just because Grant stepped in and played phenomenal when Willis went down doesn't mean Willis is more expendable than Aldon or that he isn't as great of a player. Willis is the leader of the defense and does so many things that don't show up on the stat sheet.

First, I never compared Aldon Smith to Patrick Willis. I compared Smith to Charles Haley.

Comparing Willis to Aldon Smith does not make as much sense as comparing him to Haley. In four of his six years, with the 49ers Haley played OLB.

The stats seem to indicate that he was as good as Charles Haley in run defense and pass coverage.

Smith clearly compares well to Haley in all aspects of the game.

Second, I differed with the claim that Aldon was crap on run defense and in pass coverage.

I never said that he could not or should not improve.

I still do not think he is crap in either run defense or pass coverage. I think the stats do not support the original claim.


.

Was does PFF have to do with my post? I did not cite them.

Originally posted by Ballistic:
willis is overrated imo

how?

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Damn Aldon is a beast! 51 tackles a game? lol so he gets 816 tackles a year, 268 sacks a year and 40 FF?

Funny because the stats you provided do not prove that aldon is good at coverage or against the run. 1 interception in 2 years means nothing and 51 tackles a year doesn't mean he is a great run stuffer. 5 passes defended in 2 years is also not impressive when you consider JJ Watt a defensive end who isn't asked to drop back in coverage had more than triple the passes defended in 1 year than aldon did in 2. Now I do think he has improved tremendously at both compared to his rookie year, but if your going to try to prove him wrong than make sure your stats apply to your argument. I don't think PFF teaches you that..

But seriously the fact that he averages a sack a game is awesome. But to say that he is better than Willis is a stretch. Just because Grant stepped in and played phenomenal when Willis went down doesn't mean Willis is more expendable than Aldon or that he isn't as great of a player. Willis is the leader of the defense and does so many things that don't show up on the stat sheet.

Look Willis is a hell of a player. Likely a HOF player, but the fact of the matter is he simply is more expendable than Aldon. The values are not the same for the positions, and both are among the top of their positions. A dominate pass rushing OLB the caliber of Aldon Smith is simply more valuable than any ILB period. As far as whos the better player, its not really a fair comparisson, but when you start to talk about value it is easy to pick a side.

And LOL at comparing Watt's pass defenses to Aldons. Aldon also switched positions when coing into the NFL and everyone knew he would be ra in those areas, but IMO he has progressed nicely as an OLB, but lets be real here, the dude has more sacks in his first two seasons than anyone thats ever played in the NFL. I know people here like to nitpick and its the offseason and thats fine, i do it myself, but his pass rushing ability alone is enough to justify him as the more valuable player.

No doubt he is a great passrusher and I think he is also much improved in his coverage and run stopping. I don't see what's so funny about comparing his pass defenses to watt. Watt doesn't drop back in coverage and has triple the amount of pass defenses as aldon. Watt also sees a lot more double teams than smith. BTW that's watt in 1 year compared to aldon in 2. True watt is in the qb's throwing lane more often but still.

My point was that as an all around player willis is the better player. I realize it is tough to compare OLB's and ILB's but that's what this thread is about and IMO willis is better. Willis and Bowman are the most complete ILB's in the league IMO and aldon has a ways to go before he is as complete as ware. If Willis and Bowman were asked to blitz often than they would be a nightmare for quaterbacks. IMO bowman and Willis are tops in the league at getting after the qb for ILB's and so is aldon for olb's. I think the difference lies in how good willis and bowman are in coverage and against the rush where they are much more polished. This upcoming season I expect aldon to close the gap significantly.

Again I think Willis is more important than aldon. He is the heart of our defense as well as the leader. I believe we could still apply a significant amount of pressure if aldon went down but that would require more ILB blitz which we don't use too often.

Originally posted by NinerFan408:

Originally posted by Ballistic:
willis is overrated imo

how?

UMMHH OK