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Who's better? Willis or Aldon

Who's better? Willis or Aldon

Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:
The last NYG championship team had Jason Pierre Paul who had 16.5 sacks and named all-pro. HE is elite. NYG played like a top 3 defense in the playoffs when it counted most.

Also, Tuck and Osi were getting healthy from past injuries and they are definitely elite. Ask Tom Brady. I still wish to this day that GB had beaten NYG in Lambeau.
This I agree with though they weren't huge throughout the season, they really put a show on in the playoffs.
Actually a good question I get from my friends who are NYG fans is who's better, Pierre-Paul or Aldon?
  • buck
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Here is what I said.


Originally posted by buck:
Everybody is entitled to have his own opinion.

The 49er players expressed theirs. They decided that Aldon Smith was the team's most valuable player in 2012.

Aldon Smith named winner of the Bill Walsh Award

On Monday, Jim Harbaugh announced that Aldon Smith was voted by the players as the team's MVP and won the Bill Walsh award as a result. "Aldon Smith was named by the 49ers as the team MVP," said Harbaugh. "He is playing at a really high level and is important for our team."

In just his second year, Smith had 19.5 sacks in the regular season which passed Fred Dean's single-season franchise record. He broke Reggie White's record for the most sacks for a player in his first two years in the league totaling 33.5 sacks.

http://www.examiner.com/article/jim-harbaugh-says-aldon-smith-is-the-team-mvp-alex-smith-is-still-helping-out

I am pretty sure the 49er players have some idea of what they voted on.

With the exception of the last line, the post only provides a fact and detail.

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
No I was just saying that winning the award isn't as important as you make it out to be. Just because he was voted MVP doesn't mean his value is the greatest on the team.

So again I ask was Joe Nedney the most valuable player on that 49er team?

When I made the post, I said nothing that quantified the importance of the award, although I did stress that players voted for the award winner.

I thought it somewhat ironic that this discussion Aldon's winning the award had not been mentioned.

I have never said or even implied in this thread or anyplace that Aldon's value is the greatest on the team.
I do not how you managed to read that into my words. Earlier in this thread you made a similar mistake when you spoke about my intentions.

It would make having a discussion easier and more fruitful if you would respond to things that I actually say.

By the way you actually did say the award does not mean that much.

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
If nate clements and joe nedney won the award in the past then the award doesn't mean that much.
[ Edited by buck on Jun 29, 2013 at 5:00 PM ]
Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:
The last NYG championship team had Jason Pierre Paul who had 16.5 sacks and named all-pro. HE is elite. NYG played like a top 3 defense in the playoffs when it counted most.

Also, Tuck and Osi were getting healthy from past injuries and they are definitely elite. Ask Tom Brady. I still wish to this day that GB had beaten NYG in Lambeau.

Good point on the Giants. That defense really stepped up in the playoffs and especially the Super Bowl. But really, if you look at the last ten winners, how many out of that group had players with that many sacks? Two? Three? Yes, having one is great and I'm real glad the Niners have one of the best sack guys in the league, but I'm just saying it isn't necessarily more important than some other positions - they all, in some way, rely on each other.
[ Edited by GNielsen on Jun 29, 2013 at 5:08 PM ]
Member Milestone: This is post number 200 for JimDrinkAMiller.
Originally posted by buck:
Here is what I said.


Originally posted by buck:
Everybody is entitled to have his own opinion.

The 49er players expressed theirs. They decided that Aldon Smith was the team's most valuable player in 2012.

Aldon Smith named winner of the Bill Walsh Award

On Monday, Jim Harbaugh announced that Aldon Smith was voted by the players as the team's MVP and won the Bill Walsh award as a result. "Aldon Smith was named by the 49ers as the team MVP," said Harbaugh. "He is playing at a really high level and is important for our team."

In just his second year, Smith had 19.5 sacks in the regular season which passed Fred Dean's single-season franchise record. He broke Reggie White's record for the most sacks for a player in his first two years in the league totaling 33.5 sacks.

http://www.examiner.com/article/jim-harbaugh-says-aldon-smith-is-the-team-mvp-alex-smith-is-still-helping-out

I am pretty sure the 49er players have some idea of what they voted on.

With the exception of the last line, the post only provides a fact and detail.

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
No I was just saying that winning the award isn't as important as you make it out to be. Just because he was voted MVP doesn't mean his value is the greatest on the team.

So again I ask was Joe Nedney the most valuable player on that 49er team?

When I made the post, I said nothing that quantified the importance of the award, although I did stress that players voted for the award winner.

I thought it somewhat ironic that this discussion Aldon's winning the award had not been mentioned.

I have never said or even implied in this thread or anyplace that Aldon's value is the greatest on the team.
I do not how you managed to read that into my words. Earlier in this thread you made a similar mistake when you spoke about my intentions.

It would make having a discussion easier and more fruitful if you would respond to things that I actually say.

By the way you actually did say the award does not mean that much.

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
If nate clements and joe nedney won the award in the past then the award doesn't mean that much.

Isn't as important as you make it out to be is just about the same as the award doesn't mean that much. Did I ever say winning the award wasn't important? No I just say you can't put too much into an award that was won by a kicker. But common sense isn't required so I can't blame you for not having any.

Not everything I post when quoting you is directed at you. So me saying Aldon Smith's value to the team isn't as great as Patrick is a response to other posters and not you. But then again you have no common sense so I don't expect you to know that.

What was the thought behind posting the fact that aldon was voted the MVP of his team by his peers? You do realize this is a discussion on who is better between Patrick and Aldon right? or do you not?
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:
The last NYG championship team had Jason Pierre Paul who had 16.5 sacks and named all-pro. HE is elite. NYG played like a top 3 defense in the playoffs when it counted most.

Also, Tuck and Osi were getting healthy from past injuries and they are definitely elite. Ask Tom Brady. I still wish to this day that GB had beaten NYG in Lambeau.
This I agree with though they weren't huge throughout the season, they really put a show on in the playoffs.


Thanks for helping my argument. There's 3 ELITE passrushers as you put it on 1 team. So obviously there is an abundance of passrushers. I can name a lot more ELITE passrushers than I can ELITE ILB's especially if your going to label OSI elite.
  • buck
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
But common sense isn't required so I can't blame you for not having any.

But then again you have no common sense so I don't expect you to know that.

OK.
Originally posted by VPofCarnage:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Really?

Another ridiculous comment.

Clowney is the top prospect because he is the most freakish athlete in the draft. Nobody is close, but it isn't just because he is a passrusher.

Peppers played on pretty much the same bears d that urlacher did so I don't know what your talking about...


Patrick Peterson was a ridiculous athlete, but the NFL didn't think he was as valuable as as Marcell Dareus. Time will tell if they were wrong, but it says something when the best CB prospect in years gets drafted after a DT like Dareus & after a WR prospect like AJ Green. Some positions are just more valuable than others.

And Julius Peppers also played for the Panthers. He was by far more valuable than Urlachers was when both of them were in their respective primes. And he was more valuable to the Bears too. A dominant D-lineman is more valuable than a dominant 4-3 LB or any ILB. They just have a bigger effect on every play. A LB's play is dependent on the guys in from of him. It's the same reason an all-pro' LB is more valuable than an all-pro' safety. A safety might go 3 or 4 plays in a row and have no effect on the plays. That never happens with the guys up front.

You've to ignore sports center, Madden covers, commercials, jersey sales. etc. All-pro' QBs > D-linemen ,OLTs, WRs & CBs > ILBs. And ILBs > safeties. That's just how it works.


The NFL didn't think he was as valuable as Dareus or the team didn't? That's right the team didn't because each team has different needs. BTW cornerback and Defensive Tackle aren't what we are arguing about.

Again for however many good/great ILBs you can name I can name 1 good/great passrusher, I could probably even name 2. Passrushing specialists do not have more of an impact on every play than an ILB. ILB's are more involved on running downs.

The only part I agree with is qb's being the most important player in the game. Everything else is your opinion.
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
No it isn't. Stop being ridiculous.

Yes it is, the MVP/Bill Walsh Award winner is voted by the players team mates, which means the men actually playing the game side by side with him thought Nedney was more crucial to the teams success then anyone else. Its not some stupid fan popularity contest, its not some bs stat award and its not an award by a network, its an award from the team voted by the team.


Yeah well I think that is laughable to think Nedney was more important than anyone else. Do you think if the coach could've picked 1 player to keep for next season it would've been nedney? Do you think nedney's value was greater than anyone else on the team because he was named team MVP?

You guys are silly.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
But common sense isn't required so I can't blame you for not having any.

But then again you have no common sense so I don't expect you to know that.

OK.

You got what you wanted out of me right? < That's what you want to see?

Your pretty sensitive much like my sister.

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Yeah well I think that is laughable to think Nedney was more important than anyone else. Do you think if the coach could've picked 1 player to keep for next season it would've been nedney? Do you think nedney's value was greater than anyone else on the team because he was named team MVP?

You guys are silly.

Enjoy laughing at the team your a fan ofs judgement then.
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
You got what you wanted out of me right? < That's what you want to see?

Your pretty sensitive much like my sister.


Dude you really need to read the Rules before you do find yourself

Member Conduct

  1. Don't be a jerk. Certain topics will get heated debates but please remember, disagree/attack the idea and not the poster.
When you make the argument that a passrush specialist is more important than probably the great ILB in the game and possibly ever you have to consider not only 3-4 olb's but 4-3 d-ends as well as other positions like 3-4 D-ends. (Watt, Justin) Like I stated before there is a lot more players that you guys consider ELITE passrushers than there are ELITE ILBs.

If we were just saying 3-4 OLBs were more important and harder to find then you could be right but that's only because there isn't too many teams that run the 3-4.

Pat>Aldon. Not by much but he is.

Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Not at all. A kicker should never be a MVP on a team. Nate Clements was probably the most overpaid 49er ever.




Not sure you are being rational or logical, but that is not required.

Your right I should talk like buck. That's much more polite.
[ Edited by JimDrinkAMiller on Jun 29, 2013 at 6:07 PM ]
Originally posted by VPofCarnage:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
So AP isn't more valuable just because he is a runningback? How about Revis Island pre-injury? Everyone was saying he was the best defensive player in the league.

Sorry to break it to you but football is a team sport. You can't say one position is more valuable than another other than quarterback. When Ronnie Lott played he was the best defensive player in the league at safety. Lewis Singletary and butkus were considered the best as ILB, Taylor and Brooks at OLB, Deion Green and champ at corner, Mean Joe Sapp White and D Jones on the D Line.

My point being that Taylor and Brooks weren't more important to their defenses than any of the other players mentioned above. You can think whatever you want but you have no proof.


No, AP is not more valuable than an elite pass rusher. He's more of a fan favourite, but he's not even as valuable to the Vikings as Matt Kalil is. Revis pre-injury? He was close to an all-pro pass rusher in terms of value. Revis was more valuable than Willis a few years ago, but after the ACL tear that changed. An all-pro' CB > an all-pro' ILB, but Willis > Revis now.

The only thing that comes close to an all-pro' pass-rusher is an all-pro' DT. There's a reason Jadeveon Clowney looks like the most valuable non-QB player the draft has seen (outside of the obscenely talented 2011 draft) in years. Julius Peppers was more valuable than Ray Lewis or Urlacher back in the day. Peppers didn't have the teams those other 2 did (and thus didn't get half the hype), but he was a one-man wrecking crew.


BTW peppers plays a different position than Aldon. Even is peppers was a better player than Urlacher which I don't think he was, I think they were about the same, he still wasn't as great as Ray Lewis. Just like aldon isn't as great as pat. yet.

If pat retired today he might be considered the GOAT or close to it. Aldon isn't even the best OLB in the league. That crown belongs to Ware IMO.