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49ers vs NFC West
Sep 16, 2013 at 9:50 PM
- LVJay
- Veteran
- Posts: 27,847
Long story short -- coaches need to pull their heads out of their butts!
Sep 16, 2013 at 10:07 PM
- frankie
- Veteran
- Posts: 6,361
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:Watching the game last night reminded me of when the "Greatest Show On Turf" Rams were coming up. The younger, faster Rams were built to beat the bigger, slower Niners back then especially at home in the dome.
So practice squad player should slow em down nancy kerrigan style? Jk wouldnt wish that on anyone. The clink has become arrowhead to us. We will fare much better dec 8th! Kinda sucks so far away. Bring on indy
Goniners
Sep 16, 2013 at 10:18 PM
- BroMontana
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,608
The problem is that when teams like Green Bay, New England, and Denver are running a no huddle offense, they have veteran quarterbacks that are calling a lot of the plays. That would be too much responsibility for someone like Kaepernick at this point in his career.
Sep 16, 2013 at 10:20 PM
- 9erempire
- Member
- Posts: 309
I told everyone this is the year we are going to see if it was a right decision to get rid of Alex.
Yes, I'm over it, Alex is not here. I just want to see if Kap is really worth it. I hope he is.
I just hope he's not a Jeff George with running capabilities.
Yes, I'm over it, Alex is not here. I just want to see if Kap is really worth it. I hope he is.
I just hope he's not a Jeff George with running capabilities.
Sep 16, 2013 at 10:25 PM
- NickSh49
- Veteran
- Posts: 7,939
Originally posted by Kronos2560:
Alex Smith has won 4 straight against Seattle, Yet Colin Kaepernick has yet to beat them at all. Why is that?
Dude Alex only played vs. Russell Wilson once... at home. The Hawks are a lot different now, and they are much tougher when they play at CenturyLink.
Sep 16, 2013 at 10:26 PM
- Ronnie49Lott
- Veteran
- Posts: 8,505
Originally posted by frankie:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Watching the game last night reminded me of when the "Greatest Show On Turf" Rams were coming up. The younger, faster Rams were built to beat the bigger, slower Niners back then especially at home in the dome.
So practice squad player should slow em down nancy kerrigan style? Jk wouldnt wish that on anyone. The clink has become arrowhead to us. We will fare much better dec 8th! Kinda sucks so far away. Bring on indy
Goniners
LOL Where's Jeff Gillooly when you need him?
Sep 16, 2013 at 10:29 PM
- pasodoc9er
- Veteran
- Posts: 21,009
Back when I was playing ball, ice hockey or whatever, when we seriously got our tails kicked, the very best medicine was to GET READY FOR THE NEXT GAME (COLTS) . Right now that will be difficult in that we got outcoached, outplayed, out game planned, out playcalled, out executed, and worst, we got embarrassed. True the D played well thru the first half, but Reid's loss (due to the STUPID NEW RULES) really hurt. If he had just tackled him like usual, Reid would still be playing. Put that one on Goodell. so:
Horrible game plan...like it or not, WCO would have eaten these guys up. Kap looked at an 8 man line all nite. Staying with our read/option was stupidity at the beginning, and worse after the start of the 2nd half. It truly looked like JH nor roman had done their homework. on the SEA D. I don't believe that, but it points to the fact that this is yet another big game, lost by inferior game planning. JH can fix that by putting roman to work at practice and not let him call games.
Horrible play calling Like it or not, my favorite coach in the league has an OC who looks like a genius at times and an imbecile at others. Roman was no genius on Sunday. And continuing to call runs into an 8 man with no results (15 carries for 32 yrds.)....you would think an OC and the HC would be smarter than that....and then they changed nothing after the half... good grief. That has to change...and maybe , just maybe, Coach H needs to turn off his headphones and make the calls himself.
Awful personnel choices Nothing against Miller a LB convert to FB. But he is not a good hands man like...Patton, Moore, Anquan, Vance, Vernon . I had no problem with the FB getting so many passes, but we should have used Vance, Vernon, Anquan, Moore, Patton in backfield positions for the 3 back set, one each side of Kap and one behind. Or the "trips" set, 3 guys set wide, each breaks different route, or one picks off a LB. We did none of that. Jeez, we had an extended competiton for WR and got some good ones...yet we have a bunch of pass plays to miller out of backfield? Cripes, put 3 of the above 5 guys in "trips: set, or the BTF(Bermuda Triangle formation ) around Kap. Throwing the majority of passes to miller was ridiculous....don't do that again. Use good hands guys in backfield at TE or WR or special sets like "triplets (trips). This was astoundingly bad and is easy to correct. First, tho, Coach has to realize it.
Kap's play and persona. Don't know if I have enough words to describe one of the top 7 QBs in the league, but he looked INTIMDATED BY the STADIUM and CROWD NOISE, he looked RATTLED, SHOCKED, FROZEN, MECHANICAL, the DEER in the HEADLIGHTS LOOK....well, you get the idea. And with the game plan he was given and the play calls, no wonder.
Getting into trouble with long 1st down incompletions against the best secondary in football, then again with the same on 2nd down( or a brilliant play call to run frank into a box 8), nobody would play very well that way. Also playing with silent hand signals was unfamiliar to Kap, and again, no wonder, he has practiced that probably 10 whole days of his career. Had to be done, but coaches failed to make him comfortable with silent hand calls. Shame on Coach and roman.
A worse problem was that when Kap should have run, he passed. When he should have passed out of R/O, he ran. Coaches screwed him up so bad he looked like Humpty Dumbrowski out there , and that , is again, coaching faults. He will be his old self again, but he was poorly prepared by JH for this game, and that all falls on HC's shoulders. Coach H has to work A LOT with Kap on playing with hand calls and in particular in SEA. It can be done...but Coach didn't spend near enough time on it. He was, in summary, out of sync. Credit that to the best D in football.(that's right, not ours). In the end SEA, its stadium, fans and D got into Kap's head. He can fix that ,but Coach Harbaugh needs to work with him on it ...a lot.
The PENALTY business ... What the heck? Worst penalized team is Bucs with 23. We have 22 in 2 games. Penalties are a failure to concentrate. Again, a coaching error. Sure you want to slap someone who just hit you. But Coach has to see to it these guys don't do that. Motion penalties could be cut down by not changing formations....esp against an elite team and IN SEA. They cost us way more than they gained. Coach can get these guys focused, and cut way down on penalties...but he better get started.
2nd HALF GAME PLAN CHANGES... no secret Coach and roman have been bad about that. But they see Kap and his cannon, by golly, they are gonna use it. This was a common complaint last yr, and it was worse Sunday. Coach HAS TO make serious changes at halftime if nothing is working on O. And Kap's Cannon....hey, just forget that and pretend Alex is out there. Forget the long ball with low percentage against a D that should have had only short quick WCO offense used against it. Coach can fix that...but he has to make himself do it....after he first recognizes what the problem is. Does he even realize there was a problem?
No Huddle in SEA ...you gotta be kidding. These guys are bigger, faster, stronger, better, and they waxed us. We needed a huddle . We didn't do dyck with the no huddle against SEA. Use that against a team not of top caliber..
D PLAYED GREAT ..most of first half. But when we got down and were way behind, Fangio's blitz in the red zone was pathetic. He can do better than that.
Overall, a score that sounded way worse than it was. But SEA beat us on all fronts, and that folks is coaching....bad Coaching and worse execution, horrible personnel use.. JH is a proud man, and will be better prepared next time we face SEA. It also means we better do better than my predicted 11-5...or we will see SEA in SEA for playoffs....and that doesn't bode well for us.
Horrible game plan...like it or not, WCO would have eaten these guys up. Kap looked at an 8 man line all nite. Staying with our read/option was stupidity at the beginning, and worse after the start of the 2nd half. It truly looked like JH nor roman had done their homework. on the SEA D. I don't believe that, but it points to the fact that this is yet another big game, lost by inferior game planning. JH can fix that by putting roman to work at practice and not let him call games.
Horrible play calling Like it or not, my favorite coach in the league has an OC who looks like a genius at times and an imbecile at others. Roman was no genius on Sunday. And continuing to call runs into an 8 man with no results (15 carries for 32 yrds.)....you would think an OC and the HC would be smarter than that....and then they changed nothing after the half... good grief. That has to change...and maybe , just maybe, Coach H needs to turn off his headphones and make the calls himself.
Awful personnel choices Nothing against Miller a LB convert to FB. But he is not a good hands man like...Patton, Moore, Anquan, Vance, Vernon . I had no problem with the FB getting so many passes, but we should have used Vance, Vernon, Anquan, Moore, Patton in backfield positions for the 3 back set, one each side of Kap and one behind. Or the "trips" set, 3 guys set wide, each breaks different route, or one picks off a LB. We did none of that. Jeez, we had an extended competiton for WR and got some good ones...yet we have a bunch of pass plays to miller out of backfield? Cripes, put 3 of the above 5 guys in "trips: set, or the BTF(Bermuda Triangle formation ) around Kap. Throwing the majority of passes to miller was ridiculous....don't do that again. Use good hands guys in backfield at TE or WR or special sets like "triplets (trips). This was astoundingly bad and is easy to correct. First, tho, Coach has to realize it.
Kap's play and persona. Don't know if I have enough words to describe one of the top 7 QBs in the league, but he looked INTIMDATED BY the STADIUM and CROWD NOISE, he looked RATTLED, SHOCKED, FROZEN, MECHANICAL, the DEER in the HEADLIGHTS LOOK....well, you get the idea. And with the game plan he was given and the play calls, no wonder.
Getting into trouble with long 1st down incompletions against the best secondary in football, then again with the same on 2nd down( or a brilliant play call to run frank into a box 8), nobody would play very well that way. Also playing with silent hand signals was unfamiliar to Kap, and again, no wonder, he has practiced that probably 10 whole days of his career. Had to be done, but coaches failed to make him comfortable with silent hand calls. Shame on Coach and roman.
A worse problem was that when Kap should have run, he passed. When he should have passed out of R/O, he ran. Coaches screwed him up so bad he looked like Humpty Dumbrowski out there , and that , is again, coaching faults. He will be his old self again, but he was poorly prepared by JH for this game, and that all falls on HC's shoulders. Coach H has to work A LOT with Kap on playing with hand calls and in particular in SEA. It can be done...but Coach didn't spend near enough time on it. He was, in summary, out of sync. Credit that to the best D in football.(that's right, not ours). In the end SEA, its stadium, fans and D got into Kap's head. He can fix that ,but Coach Harbaugh needs to work with him on it ...a lot.
The PENALTY business ... What the heck? Worst penalized team is Bucs with 23. We have 22 in 2 games. Penalties are a failure to concentrate. Again, a coaching error. Sure you want to slap someone who just hit you. But Coach has to see to it these guys don't do that. Motion penalties could be cut down by not changing formations....esp against an elite team and IN SEA. They cost us way more than they gained. Coach can get these guys focused, and cut way down on penalties...but he better get started.
2nd HALF GAME PLAN CHANGES... no secret Coach and roman have been bad about that. But they see Kap and his cannon, by golly, they are gonna use it. This was a common complaint last yr, and it was worse Sunday. Coach HAS TO make serious changes at halftime if nothing is working on O. And Kap's Cannon....hey, just forget that and pretend Alex is out there. Forget the long ball with low percentage against a D that should have had only short quick WCO offense used against it. Coach can fix that...but he has to make himself do it....after he first recognizes what the problem is. Does he even realize there was a problem?
No Huddle in SEA ...you gotta be kidding. These guys are bigger, faster, stronger, better, and they waxed us. We needed a huddle . We didn't do dyck with the no huddle against SEA. Use that against a team not of top caliber..
D PLAYED GREAT ..most of first half. But when we got down and were way behind, Fangio's blitz in the red zone was pathetic. He can do better than that.
Overall, a score that sounded way worse than it was. But SEA beat us on all fronts, and that folks is coaching....bad Coaching and worse execution, horrible personnel use.. JH is a proud man, and will be better prepared next time we face SEA. It also means we better do better than my predicted 11-5...or we will see SEA in SEA for playoffs....and that doesn't bode well for us.
Sep 16, 2013 at 10:36 PM
- ads_2006
- Veteran
- Posts: 56,464
we cant fix it son, ninertalk has spoken
Sep 16, 2013 at 10:46 PM
- verb1der
- Member
- Posts: 15,613
Great post man!!
Sep 16, 2013 at 10:55 PM
- Rascal
- Veteran
- Posts: 13,926
Originally posted by Kronos2560:
Originally posted by maltz88:
Primarily because Seattle was rebuilding when Smith was playing them. Seattle started playing like a playoff team around week 7 of last season.
Doesn't change the fact that our scheme was better and more efficient. I'm in no way saying Smith is the better option at QB, I am more so reflecting on a time where we had a better gameplan against Seattle. (Whom I get weren't the same team as the are now)
I don't know about being efficient, even without looking to get big chuncks downfield, the WRs were covered near or far, not to mention they stuffed our run game. I don't believe you can't go deep on Seattle, the Falcons did it just like what they did to us. Do we have the personnel to make those kind of plays that I don't know. So, it remains to be seen what Harbaugh and Roman will do with the schemes and game planning.
But, I would like to talk about Maltz88's point. If I am not wrong he is a Seahawks fan, so he is very well-versed with the Seahawks situation. I tend to agree with his assessment of the status of the Seahawks during the Alex Smith era. If we just focus from 2011 onwards after the arrival of Harbaugh, Seahawks at that point was still very much rebuilding. They are a young team now, but they were even younger at that point. To begin with, Russell Wilson hadn't even been drafted. Let's take a look at their now key players that we know in relation to the draft :
2010 Draft
- Russell Okung
- Earl Thomas
- Golden Tate
- Kam Chancellor
- Walter Thurmond III
2011 Draft
- James Carpenter
- Richard Sherman
2012 Draft
- Bruce Irvin
- Bobby Wagner
- Russell Wilson
- Robert Turbin
It takes a while before rookies can come into their own and even longer for a young team to start gelling together. But, during that same period, our key star players were already at their peak and all it took was better coaching from Harbaugh to turn talents into results especially against a young team which was still inexperienced and learning at the time.
I guess what I am trying to say is we had already reached our peak last year in the context of our core marquee players, Frank 30, Vernon 29, Patrick 28 and Justin 34. I am not suggesting there are major dropoffs in any way, but the problem is concurrently this young Seahawks team have now developed into an excellent unit and with them being this young, they are only just moving into their prime.(they are the 4th youngest team in the league while the 9ers are ranked 25th)
To begin with, all these players they have are very talented in their own right. When you add size and youth into the equation together with great coaching, they are leading to a road to success. The progression of their records against us speaks for itself :
2011
- Home - 33-17 (9ers)
- CLink - 19-17 (9ers)
2012
- Home - 13-6 (9ers)
- CLink - 42-13 (Seahawks)
2013
- CLink - 29-3 (Seahawks)
I guess that experience/age Vs success curve of both teams will cross at some point. I am of the belief they might have already crossed as we speak. It is not totally inconceivable they might have even surpassed us. If you look at the records, what worries me is not we lost 2 games at the CLink, but rather we have lost 2 games consecutively plus even more importantly was the way we lost with both games being complete blowouts.
In a nutshell, I believe it is more than just schemes and game planning. Can other schemes work better ? Sure it can. Will it be enough ? That I don't know. What I do know is we have definitely already lost our past dominance on the Seahawks like in 2011.
Going forward, the question that looms in my head is - have we already witnessed the "changing of the guards" ? I believe the home game in December will give us the definitive answer.
[ Edited by Rascal on Sep 17, 2013 at 3:43 AM ]
Sep 16, 2013 at 11:08 PM
- Kaepernick2014
- Member
- Posts: 6
Originally posted by Kronos2560:
Alex Smith has won 4 straight against Seattle, Yet Colin Kaepernick has yet to beat them at all. Why is that?
Seattle was "rebuilding" in 2008-2011.... they are peaking right now.
Sep 16, 2013 at 11:21 PM
- pdizo916
- Member
- Posts: 38,241
we need fans to bring their A game
Sep 16, 2013 at 11:35 PM
- Sims84
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,552
Originally posted by 24plus25er:
Roman/Harbaugh need to do two things;
A. Put a leash on Kaep; Okay I get it, Kaep is an amazing athlete and had a monster 11 game run, but the honey moon period is over. Green Bay was foolish and didn't ease up off their defensive gameplan after it was obvious Kaep was headed for damn near a 500 yard passing day. Pushing all my 49er bias to the side and being 100% honest, Green Bay's coaches handed us that out of spite and ignorance by choosing to stay with a ridiculous defensive plan and trying to run the ball on defense against a dominant run defense team (not to mention the foolish idea that they could intimidate us with bully antics). I know a lot of the fan boys may not want to hear it but had Green Bay not been so stubborn, we could very easily be 0-2 right now.
The run game has not been there which forces us to put a larger load of the burden on Kaep's shoulders. This is not how you build QB's up, it's how you break them down before they hit 30 years old. At the end of the day Kaep is only 12 games in, we have to put him on the same strict watch we had Smith on if we plan on winning 12+ games this season, and trust me we will need at least 12 wins to guarantee this division and home field should we run into Seattle in the playoffs. This isn't the old NFC west, EVERY team in this division plays physical defense, there are no more cake walks through the division. We have to buckle down and tailor the gameplan to make Kaep the x-factor he is and not the backbone/savior/sole proprietor of the offense.
B. Look at what New England/Philly/Denver; What I suggest is us taking a really long look at the no huddle/fast pace offense the Pats/Eagles/Broncos run. I feel like we have a team full of gym rats who are in great physical condition with great cardio endurance. Look at Anthony Dixon each year he has been in our program, he's been in better shape every year and it shows in his play. After last nights lost I looked at the two teams who gave Seattle the most issues at home; Green Bay and New England. Both teams should have beat the Seahawks at home and one actually did (packers) but the replacement refs blew the game. If New England had our defense they would have beaten the Seahawks by 20+ (they were up 20-10 going into the 4th quarter, gave up 14 points in the fourth).
How those teams lost is irrelevant, whats important is what they did to put points on the board. Brady/Hoodie spreaded the defense out and forced the to play in space leaving opportunity underneath to what ever WR/TE was there (five players had 5+ receptions). It's pure logic, don't over think it, spread em out and take what they give you. 5+2+3 still equals 10 yards and a first down, it wears the defense down and opens up opportunity for the run game. NE had 22 rushes for about 84 yards, I'm sure with our superior oline and running back talent we could go for 110+ if we play our cards right.
Seattle is a talented team and any game against them will more than likely be a dog fight, but if we are not giving ourselves a chance by running an offense that forces teams to stop keying in on Kaep and our running game, we won't get far. Lets keep what got us here at our core but add some new stuff to keep teams off balance. I still want to see more heavy run formations in enemy territory ( >30) but lets wear teams out a bit then get to bring out the extra big guys to road grate and make things happen for Gore and company.
I'll keep my trust in Harbaugh and his crew for now. I hope they go back to the drawing board and figure out some ways to use what talent we have at WR, and get the running game going again.
Agree with a lot of this post but the bolded makes me .... "For now"? This is a coaching staff that took a team that went a decade without going to the playoffs, to the NFC Championship game without an offseason and the Superbowl the very next season and you will keep your trust in them "for now"?? LMAO yeah ok. The Seahawks just happen to match up against us extremely well. The Patriots and Packers both run a totally different offense with totally different weapons. The Packers have 3 WR's that could start on any team in the league (Cobb, Nelson, Jones) with a serviceable TE. The Patriots had TWO Pro Bowl caliber TE's in Hernandez and Gronk with a pro bowl WR in Welker. Those offense can create mismatches against anyone they play. We still do not have a serviceable second option at WR which will hurt us everytime we play Seattle
Sep 17, 2013 at 12:02 AM
- SonocoNinerFan
- Veteran
- Posts: 17,581
When you play in Seattle you have to play a clean game to have any chance and the last two games up there have seen too many unforced 49ers errors. But if we play our best football at home in December we'll hold serve.
It's what happens between now and then is what we need to look at. This was game 2 of 16 . . and the rest of our schedule sets up a lot nicer than the Seahawks in my opinion. I think we'll be fine.
It's what happens between now and then is what we need to look at. This was game 2 of 16 . . and the rest of our schedule sets up a lot nicer than the Seahawks in my opinion. I think we'll be fine.
Sep 17, 2013 at 12:21 AM
- buck
- Veteran
- Posts: 13,137
If we want to win the NFC West, the coaches need to:
1. Prepare for the game with the Colts.
2. Reduce the number of penalties
3. Improve our run production
4. Find a replacement for Ian Williams
5. Improve our play at wide receiver
6. Reduce turn overs
7. Beat the Colts
8. Go on to the next game
1. Prepare for the game with the Colts.
2. Reduce the number of penalties
3. Improve our run production
4. Find a replacement for Ian Williams
5. Improve our play at wide receiver
6. Reduce turn overs
7. Beat the Colts
8. Go on to the next game