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This Year's WR's are Better Overall than Last Year

This Year's WR's are Better Overall than Last Year

Originally posted by LottOfDefense:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Pretty much the only battle I'm not too excited about is oline. Pretty much just depth there. I mean its good to have good backups but oline is solid. Every other position is a battle.

Kilgore vs. Goodwin should be interesting.

I think the salary reduction will keep Goodwin in the starting role this year and Kilgore will take it next year.
2012 2013

No. 1 Crabtree > No. 1 Boldin

No. 2 Moss = No. 2 Patton

No. 3 Manningham > No. 3 Jenkins

No. 4 Williams = No. 4 Williams

No. 5 Jenkins < No. 5 Manningham

Obviously if/when Manningham comes back he could reclaim his No. 3 role. To me, Patton looks legit and I would put his production this year at or maybe even slightly better than what Moss gave us last year. But no receiver on our roster is going to replace what Crabtree did last year. Jenkins is the wild card. If he produces like a first rounder then the cumulative numbers from our receiving corp. will exceed last year. If he sucks, then the corp. as a whole is worse than last year, especially considering that Manningham is injured and when he comes back will likely not be physically the same player.
Originally posted by GNielsen:
The reason I don't think it's a dumb question has been hashed over many times. It has to do with the development of Kaepernick. This off season he is forced to find multiple solutions to passing formations. He cannot get comfortable throwing to Crabtree. This will force him to spread the ball around. Whether it's better depends on two things - is Boldin equal to Crabtree as the primary possession receiver and are there players on the squad who will step up and be a viable number 2's and 3's?

If you think Boldin is equal to Crabtree as a primary possession receiver, then the second question is the only relevant one with respect to the question, right? If anyone steps up and becomes a better #2, then the WR corp is better than last year.

But Boldin is not equal to Crabtree from an objective standpoint. Crabtree is more explosive, younger, and faster. Boldin has really good hands but Crabtree's hands may be top three in the league. Boldin was brought in to replace Moss as a solid No. 2, which is what he is at this point in his career. So I think any comparison between last year and this year must begin with the concession that we are taking a step back with our No. 1 receiver.
Patton has the skills set to replace crabs for the time being.... We need a burner that can stretch the field, I'm really hoping Jenkins or Lockette can become that guy! So the jury is still out
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,131
Originally posted by BrianGO:
I'm not following this idea that we are better at WR with Crabtree's injury.

Boldin replaces Crabtree. -- Call it a wash.
Manningham is coming off a horrendous injury. -- Arrow down.
Williams is coming off an injury, although not as severe as Manningham's. -- Arrow slightly down.
AJ Jenkins has done nothing but is coming into his second year. -- Arrow slightly up.
Delanie Walker is replaced by a rookie. -- I'll call it a wash, which is a positive spin on the rookie.
Ginn is gone. -- I'll call it a wash. He didn't really do much at WR.
Moss is gone. -- Arrow down. He was fairly productive.
Patton is a rookie. -- Arrow slightly up. I like him, but he is just a rookie 4th round pick.
Everyone else is a wash.

It all adds up to 1 1/2 arrows down from where we were last year. Sure I WANT Patton, AJ and McDonald to blow it up, but Crabtree was our best WR, there is no positive spin for this. Our best WR is out, and we are not better because of it.

Pretty much sums up my feelings as well.

As much as the company says Boldin will fill the gap for Crabtree, that is ALL spin. Crabtree had been the most productive receiver in the league over the last 8 games. There is no way, NO WAY to come close to replacing that with Boldin. That alone will turn the balance of arrows significantly down.

I still have little confidence in Jenkins. As desperate as we were last year for receivers for him to not get into the game at all is a MAJOR disappointment. For him to have any value at all he will have to be MORE of a presence on the field than Moss was last season. At least Moss' reputation created some respect even though he no longer had the physical skills to perform. Jenkins will have to earn that before he can have any advantage over Moss.

I don't expect Manningham to have a presence on the field this season. Injury was too severe and too late in the season for him to make an impact.

Patton is all potential and that is not worth anything until he proves it.

For the 67% that think we are better, that is all based on fandom, IMO. No offense but I don't see how anyone can say we are better at this point. We may have more potential but we all know how much that is worth until it happens.

I expect to see a lot of "scheming" in the run and pass game to keep opponents honest. The offense will have to earn respect on the field for the passing game. It will have to come from the young guys and that is generally not a good thing. Hope they come through but experience tells me not to bet on it.
Manningham out and Crabtree out. Even if you say Boldin is a wash for Crabs, who on this roster is better than Manningham? Remember Both AJ and Lockette were here last year too. So... Patton is better than Manningham?
Originally posted by midrdan:
But Boldin is not equal to Crabtree from an objective standpoint. Crabtree is more explosive, younger, and faster. Boldin has really good hands but Crabtree's hands may be top three in the league. Boldin was brought in to replace Moss as a solid No. 2, which is what he is at this point in his career. So I think any comparison between last year and this year must begin with the concession that we are taking a step back with our No. 1 receiver.

Your first statement is a subjective judgement, not an objective one. I agree with you subjectively, but there still is the objective data from the playoffs when Boldin and Crabtree were basically equal. They both had 95 yards per game. Boldin had a bigger yardage per catch. Crabtree had more YAC. The age thing, to me, is close to irrelevant because the Niners aren't counting on Boldin for the long term, just this next season, and he's still very productive. I don't agree that Boldin was brought in to replace Moss. Boldin is a possession receiver, so the team was going to have two possession receivers. The wide receiver corp, with no injuries and no Boldin, should be Crabtree as the possession receiver and then one of the speedsters to stretch the field and another quick one in the slot. This season, Boldin will take the possession receiver position and what the Niners need is for one of the 4 or 5 possible players to stretch the field and another to be a serviceable slot receiver. Since KW has already shown he can be good in the slot, I'm cautiously optimistic that the receiving corp will turn out well.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Manningham out and Crabtree out. Even if you say Boldin is a wash for Crabs, who on this roster is better than Manningham? Remember Both AJ and Lockette were here last year too. So... Patton is better than Manningham?

AJ was running with the scout team for most of the season, and Lockette hadn't really begun working with the playbook, so last year for both of them is close to irrelevant. This year, they're getting first and second team reps, so the relevant issue will be how they perform in the pre-season.
I think Jerry Rice.
Originally posted by midrdan:
2012 2013

No. 1 Crabtree > No. 1 Boldin

No. 2 Moss = No. 2 Patton

No. 3 Manningham > No. 3 Jenkins

No. 4 Williams = No. 4 Williams

No. 5 Jenkins < No. 5 Manningham

Obviously if/when Manningham comes back he could reclaim his No. 3 role. To me, Patton looks legit and I would put his production this year at or maybe even slightly better than what Moss gave us last year. But no receiver on our roster is going to replace what Crabtree did last year. Jenkins is the wild card. If he produces like a first rounder then the cumulative numbers from our receiving corp. will exceed last year. If he sucks, then the corp. as a whole is worse than last year, especially considering that Manningham is injured and when he comes back will likely not be physically the same player.

You are high if you think Patton is the No. 2 Receiver, especially with assuming that Manningham is healthy.

Manningham, Jenkins and Williams are going to be higher on the depth chart. I get everyone is all excited about Patton because he is new and very commited to becoming great, but right now reports say he is raw and shaky on route running. The other receivers are either faster, more experienced or bigger. I'm thinking Patton is going to have a Jenkins type of season this year, but this time there will be less expectations.
It's just too early to tell.

I don't care how much fluff I read from our beat writers, I will believe AJ has arrived when I see him getting it done in a real game that matters, and not before.

Patton has a good vibe to him but he could spend the whole year getting comfortable with the playbook and the speed of NFL defenders.

Lockette is a favorite underdog of mine, in his third year, undeniable speed, size, and natural catching ability, but who is to say whether he has learned to run precise routes yet, or whether he ever will?

Manningham was really messed up; it seems to me he'll be on NFI to start the season, and who knows when he will be ready to play again and whether he will ever be the player he was?

Kyle Wilson seems like his recovery is coming along, but I'm not sure he has the skillset to be an effective #2 WR.

Vance McDonald may figure in the mix but he too is a rookie and has had his problems with drops.

Baalke should consider adding another veteran receiver, just in case none of these guys steps up enough. Collie might be the guy. Injury history but he's young and he's got a few good seasons to his credit, and he's cheap. Even if he only lasts part of the year, it might be enough to fill in until Manningham returns.

That's my take on it anyway.
My take is that if Baalke isn't adding a veteran receiver right now, they've seen enough to have a good feeling that they don't need one.
I hope you're right, but it's too early for that too. I imagine they'll let the OTA work sink in, and then take a hard look at these guys when they report for camp, and make that decision in the first week or so of camp.
Watching film on Jenkins I saw exactly what some coaches have said. He's never going to be Jerry Rice, but that is who he has been compared to. His body motion is the same, very smooth, very fluid, makes a cut and entire regions of field just become a part of the past, deceptive speed, has that "other gear." I'm not expecting Rice, that will NEVER happen again. But this kid might shock the league this year, gradually.

Like some other posters have said, maybe there is a reason the 9ers haven't gone into panic mode chasing free agents.
This article brings some good points on concerns over Boldin as a #1.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1686178-san-francisco-49ers-is-anquan-boldin-still-a-no-1-receiver

Every time I hear about Crab's injury, I wonder how durable he is and if that will cause issues farther down the road?
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