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bold prediction for the upcoming season

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
What exactly is gore immune to? Saying he isn't a top 10 receiving back? Frank Gore is the best runningback we've ever had but father time is catching up and I believe hunter and james are more valuable as receivers than gore. Not running the ball or blocking, Gore is far superior there IMO.

What makes you think "father time" is catching up to Gore when he just put up 1214 yards (2nd most in his career), a 4.7 ypc (highest since 2009), 8 TDs, and 28 receptions?

Oh and he also had 319 yds/5.1 ypc/4 TD in the playoffs.

And you still have absolutely zero proof to back your claim about his pass catching (except your opinion).

Case closed.


Umm father time is catching up to him because he is getting older, not younger. Like I said he drops too many passes, I don't need to look at the stats when I watch every 49er game. But if you do this year and last he saw a major dip in production compared to previous years right? His drop percentage was 19.35 last year and 11 this year right? Or am I just making this information that you guys supplied me with up?

30 is the magic number for runningbacks according to history but I don't think it will slow down frank from running just receiving.

When you use the phrase, "father time is catching up" to a player, it means they're slowing down because of age. Not because they are simply getting older. Would you say "father time" is catching up to Tom Brady? How about Lebron James? Uhhh no. Of course they're getting older. If English is your first language, there should be no excuse for not knowing how to use that phrase (English is my 2nd language, btw).

I watch every 9er game too. Frank Gore is not a featured pass catcher in the 49er offense under Roman but that doesn't mean he's regressed in that area. Like posted earlier, he had FOUR drops last year for a drop rate of 11%...right on par with other RBs in the league.

You're on an island here and you have nothing to back up this baseless claim. I'm done arguing this frivolous point as well. Anyone who has watched the 49ers knows how much of a weapon he is in the passing game when utilized.


Frank had 10 drops in 2 years and a 19.35 % drop rate is evidence that his hands aren't up to par with the rest of the backs. 11 % is also below average not on par. It's not my fault that's what you got out of me saying father time is catching up to frank gore. He's a year older and players are getting faster and more athletic. Not only that but frank has been our workhorse for quite some time now and has a bunch of wear and tear. Brady and Lebron James are completely different because history shows qbs can play for a long time in this league and basketball players have longer careers as well. Rbs are comparable to centers because their knees usually get bad as they get older. RB's for the most part don't have productive career's after age 30. Now I never said frank was going to show a huge regression running the ball so don't misquote me. I said he has already seen a drop in productive as a receiving back. Frank will still be our main back and will still play out of the shotgun because of his tremendous blocking, but he won't be our "featured" receiving back because IMO we have 2 guys better at it than he is. This is assuming that kendall hunter comes back healthy which your right might not be the case. Even if he doesn't LMJ will be featured more as a receiving back than gore will IMO.

Anaylists say father time is catching up to players like Tony G all the time. But does that mean they're saying he is seeing a huge drop in his production? No. So I don't know what your talking about.

1. This offense doesnt "feature" backs in the passing game.
2. LMJ hasnt proven to be a better receiving back than anyone. He has never been a receiving back. Hell, in college he was mostly a between the tackles runner. Until he proves otherwise, he is not a receiving back.


Have you seen the 13-14 version of the 49ers yet? No, so how are you already going to assume they won't feature a runningback in the passing game? Yes james ran well between the tackles in college but that is college. You have to be more creative in the nfl to get these smaller guys involved. James works well in space and took a lot of handoffs from the shotgun formation in college as well. Typically we run more I formations and 2 tight end sets than other teams do and James doesn't flourish as well in those sets. Usually James is lined up in our shotgun and pistol formations. This spreads out the defense and allows james to work better in space which is where he flourishes IMO. Receiving backs are usually the faster more agile backs that work well in space. Charles, CJ2K, MCf*gget, and Spiller are good examples. Not saying this is always the case but IMO james will flourish more in those situations than gore will.

Your basing all of your theories and projections on pure forsight into what yout think next years team might look like . I am basing my opinions on what the history of this team under harbaugh has been, and the history of the players themselves. I really dont think you understand LMJ and his running style. You want him to be, and you describe him as though he is sproles. He is nothing like that. He is an illusive between the tackles RB, that can hit the edge, but really isaint as effective at that as you make him out to be. Hunter was much more effective on the edge. Also, like i have said several times LMJ has never been a receiving target. Never. Just because you think he fits a certain mold will not change that.

Like i said, just because Frank Gore has not been used as a receiving back doesnt mean he cant do it. That is a product of the offense and not Gore. Similar to Stephen Jackson, who is a great receiving RB, but simple wasnt used in that capacity alot of the time.

Again, your whole opinion on the matter is flawed. LMJ and Hunter will get their attempts, but non of them will be because Gore is incapable.

First James isn't a downhill runner, he's a scat back. Again at Oregon they ran more shotgun and exotic formations than they did conventional I formations or 2 tight end sets like a Stanford would. James flourished there and they were a run first team. That is college however, and in the NFL players are a lot faster and can keep up with him. I never once compared lamichael to sproles and I never said he would get anywhere close to 70 receptions like sproles. I said hunter and him combined will get 40/50 and gore will get less. I said lamichael was good in space which is true, and I think he has proven that. The 49ers do a good job at doing different things with him like coming in motion and having a running start, running him out of the pistol where he gets the ball a bit quick, can cut and be more decisive hitting the holes he wants to hit and running him out of the shotgun and delays.

If your talking about basing your opinions on the history of the team under harbaugh than let's look at the last 2 years under him with gore. 48 receptions 10 drops and about a 15% drop rate according to the first source.

You can say that he used to get 50 receptions a year as evidence but the past is the past. Our team was much different back then and we didn't have very much of a receiving core. Neither did steven Jackson or mjd for that matter. MJD is one of the best backs in the league and I'm not knocking his receiving skills just saying he gets more looks. When you don't have anyone open downfield you check down to your back more often obviously.

I never said Gore was incapable just that he isn't as good at it compared to the other backs mentioned Spiller CJ ect... Again LMJ and hunter will get more combined receptions than gore because they are better suited for it IMO. That is the only opinion I'm basing on foresight.

BTW if hunter comes back healthy and possibly stronger I dare say than he will be an upgrade over lamichael. He is a beast. Both these guys are young and on the rise. Gore and Jackson are on the decline. I bet you joaquiz Rodgers gets more receptions than Jackson this year too. Guys are getting faster everywhere on the field. I mentioned qb's in another thread, but LB's are running 4.3's and 4'4's and D-ends are hitting 4.6's no problem. Gore never lost a step but everyone around him did gain one. While he will keep running through guys and putting them on their back, he won't be juking them out or running around them as much as he gets older. Receiving backs are typically more elusive and I think that's what we will se next year for the 49ers.
Andy Lee has the worse season of his career.





























......Because we never punt
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,504
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Sorry I missed that error. I meant to say strictly receiving stats not backs. I have no complaints about frank gore as a runner or a blocker. This simply was about his hands. So which source is more reliable between the 2? Either way I'm not buying because I've seen frank gore drop some very easy passes due to a lack of concentration. Not saying he is inadequate because he is decent, I just think james and hunter will be better in the future. That and the fact that there's 2 of them and both will get their touches.

I think Gore has better hands than you think he does.

In one the posts, #98, I gave the stats for Gore over the last five years.

His catch rate is 76.42%. His drop rate (number of drops/targets) is 8.54%.

You can accept those numbers or you can reject them, but as far as I know Pro Football Focus is a reliable source.

A reception is a reception. On the other hand, there is a degree of subjectivity in determining what is a drop and what is not a drop.

His catch rate is not affected by subjectivity of those keeping the stats. Looking at the two stats together makes more sense.

I think that his hands are good enough for him to be a positive factor in the passing game next year.

I do not know if James and Hunter will be better than Gore in the passing game in the future, but then neither do you.

So we will have to see what happens in the future--and you have to admit that this future that you are talking about is rather vague.

We might have to wait a long time.
[ Edited by buck on Jun 15, 2013 at 9:22 PM ]
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
First James isn't a downhill runner, he's a scat back. Again at Oregon they ran more shotgun and exotic formations than they did conventional I formations or 2 tight end sets like a Stanford would. James flourished there and they were a run first team. That is college however, and in the NFL players are a lot faster and can keep up with him. I never once compared lamichael to sproles and I never said he would get anywhere close to 70 receptions like sproles. I said hunter and him combined will get 40/50 and gore will get less. I said lamichael was good in space which is true, and I think he has proven that. The 49ers do a good job at doing different things with him like coming in motion and having a running start, running him out of the pistol where he gets the ball a bit quick, can cut and be more decisive hitting the holes he wants to hit and running him out of the shotgun and delays.

If your talking about basing your opinions on the history of the team under harbaugh than let's look at the last 2 years under him with gore. 48 receptions 10 drops and about a 15% drop rate according to the first source.

You can say that he used to get 50 receptions a year as evidence but the past is the past. Our team was much different back then and we didn't have very much of a receiving core. Neither did steven Jackson or mjd for that matter. MJD is one of the best backs in the league and I'm not knocking his receiving skills just saying he gets more looks. When you don't have anyone open downfield you check down to your back more often obviously.

I never said Gore was incapable just that he isn't as good at it compared to the other backs mentioned Spiller CJ ect... Again LMJ and hunter will get more combined receptions than gore because they are better suited for it IMO. That is the only opinion I'm basing on foresight.

BTW if hunter comes back healthy and possibly stronger I dare say than he will be an upgrade over lamichael. He is a beast. Both these guys are young and on the rise. Gore and Jackson are on the decline. I bet you joaquiz Rodgers gets more receptions than Jackson this year too. Guys are getting faster everywhere on the field. I mentioned qb's in another thread, but LB's are running 4.3's and 4'4's and D-ends are hitting 4.6's no problem. Gore never lost a step but everyone around him did gain one. While he will keep running through guys and putting them on their back, he won't be juking them out or running around them as much as he gets older. Receiving backs are typically more elusive and I think that's what we will se next year for the 49ers.

I never once said LMJ was a "down hill" runner. I said LMJ was a between the tackles runner, that has enough to get to the edge, but isaint the most effective at it without motion. LMJ is NOT a scat back in any shape or form. He just isaint. Im well aware of the offense at Oregon. LMJ is simply a small, elusive, between the tackles back. Again, not a scat back, and im not sure where anyone has ever gotten the idea that he is a scat back other than his size. Where is Oregon when you need him? Im pretty sure he watched nearly every snap LMJ took at Oregon, and im pretty sure he would agree with me.

For that matter i wouldnt call Gore a "down hill" runner either. You talk about Gore as if all he is good for is short yard power gains. That has never been Frank Gores style either. Frank Gore is a between the tackles runner, with probably the best vision of any back in the league, and just enough speed, and just enough verticle movment, and just enough power to find those holes and make considerable use of them. He is not a power down field runner, not sure where you get that impression either. It is Franks vision that makes him special.

And once again you cannot say things like "Gore and Jackson are on the decline" and "LMJ and Hunter are on the rise" without providing atleast some evidence as to why this is true. The fact is there is no evidence of this to be true. You can say LMJ and Hunter are young, and Gore and Jackson are getting older, that is fine and true, but there is no evidence that either LMJ or Hunter are anywhere near the level Gore or Jackson have been their entire careers from day one in the league, and continue to be at 30. There is simply no evidence that anyone can provide to back up that claim. None.

About the only thing i agree with you on is that if Hunter comes back 100% healthy, he is a better back than LMJ. Other than that we dont agree on much.

Regardless, no use going back and forth anymore in this thread. Feel free to open up another thread for discussion and we can take it there.
This offseason has become way to long, first were discussing our all pro lb being phased out by our rookie lb, how our QB isnt bright, how were going to collapse without crabtree, and now how our rushing king coming off one of his best seasons has father time catching up with him....... Good god the season cannot come soon enough
we won't finally choke in the playoffs and actually win a big game.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,504
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
This offseason has become way to long, first were discussing our all pro lb being phased out by our rookie lb, how our QB isnt bright, how were going to collapse without crabtree, and now how our rushing king coming off one of his best seasons has father time catching up with him....... Good god the season cannot come soon enough


Hey, I missed the discussion of how our QB isn't bright. Darn
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
This offseason has become way to long, first were discussing our all pro lb being phased out by our rookie lb, how our QB isnt bright, how were going to collapse without crabtree, and now how our rushing king coming off one of his best seasons has father time catching up with him....... Good god the season cannot come soon enough


Hey, I missed the discussion of how our QB isn't bright. Darn

You sure you don't mean the discussion about how he's too old to be 25?
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,074
Jenkins has 10+ TD's.
VD clearly has the capability to do that! He's the most gifted TE ever
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
This offseason has become way to long, first were discussing our all pro lb being phased out by our rookie lb, how our QB isnt bright, how were going to collapse without crabtree, and now how our rushing king coming off one of his best seasons has father time catching up with him....... Good god the season cannot come soon enough

LOL! Tis the season for non-reason!
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Andy Lee has the worse season of his career.





























......Because we never punt


I don't know a 0.0 return average might actually be considered the best year ever.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
This offseason has become way to long, first were discussing our all pro lb being phased out by our rookie lb, how our QB isnt bright, how were going to collapse without crabtree, and now how our rushing king coming off one of his best seasons has father time catching up with him....... Good god the season cannot come soon enough

LOL! Tis the season for non-reason!
yes because gore turns 30 we need to turn him out to pasture and turn things over to little james and a guy coming off a bad injury, brilliant. The funny thing is, that there is no evidence at all, zero that the grim reaper is knocking on the door of gore
Originally posted by mayo49:
Jenkins has 10+ TD's.


I like this one.
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
According to Drustopo's source his drop percentage was 11% this year and 19.35% last year. And your not taking into account the joaquiz Rodgers' of the league who should be considered in this debate because I was talking about strictly receiving backs.

Your arguing that father time is catching up with Gore. If not correct me. He had one of his best seasons last year. His 19.35% drop rate was the year before last so as he got a year older he picked up his ability in the passing game. If he continues on that trend he will have something like 5% drop rate this year. There is no evidence in Frank Gore's game that says he will regress in any form this season, receiving included. If it's simply your opinion then don't argue with stats. The stats do not support your opinion. Most running backs don't play for the 49ers. Most running backs don't come out of college with injuries to both their legs and have a successful NFL career. Most backs don't have their second best year at 29 after fracturing their hip. He may regress, but there is no evidence that it will be this year.

LMJ and Hunter are in charge of spelling Gore and keeping his legs fresh, while changing the pace of the game due to their speed. They won't replace Gore because they can't. Why do you think we drafted Lattimore. He has a much better chance at taking over for Gore, and if he doesn't show anything when he gets his chance i'd wager we draft another running back. I don't want to put LMJ and Hunter down, but I just don't see them as bell cow backs which is important in our offense.
[ Edited by jvangeystel on Jun 16, 2013 at 11:28 AM ]
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